Confirmed with Link: Dave Tippett signs 5-year contract extension

[Ebb]

It's finally time to enjoy this team with all the talent coming up.

I agree with you, as long as some of that talent isn't moved by management due to certain people calling the shots due to their desire for short-term gains rather than looking towards the future

 

[Jakey53]

I'm hoping the Falcons thing goes through without Tucson having to pay public money for the privilege. The trend of IA constantly asking for handouts that they pretend aren't handouts is worrisome to me.



I'll be a lot happier when the expansion announcement is made. And I'll just hope we keep all that talent, because that's in no way, shape, or form a sure thing at this point.

Most teams ask for hand outss

They won't and can't keep all the talent. They will have to make trades to fill holes and it could hurt. You have to give and take. You may not like the structure of the front office etc. but they have done what they think is best, and it's their money. IF it doesn't work more changes will be made, but why worry about something that is out of our control. The Coyotes want our money, and they have to be successful on ice to get that. They have more at stake than any of us do.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree with you, as long as some of that talent isn't moved by management due to certain people calling the shots due to their desire for short-term gains rather than looking towards the future

A glass half empty type of person.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

They won't and can't keep all the talent. They will have to make trades to fill holes and it could hurt. You have to give and take. You may not like the structure of the front office etc. but they have done what they think is best, and it's their money. IF it doesn't work more changes will be made, but why worry about something that is out of our control. The Coyotes want our money, and they have to be successful on ice to get that. They have more at stake than any of us do.

Season tickets are an investment. You don't throw money into an investment when the company you're investing in looks like a raging dumpster fire. That's why all of this stuff about the ownership and front office and their business and operations decisions is important - because it is very clear to those of us in Arizona that there isn't enough trust built up between IA and the market for large-scale investment from either corporate or consumer groups.

If the Coyotes want our money, they need to earn our trust. Perennially being on the precipice of disaster is not a trust generator. Behaving the way they did to Glendale (no matter how dumb and corrupt the CoG was and is) is also not a way to generate the Halo Effect.

IceArizona seems incapable of delivering on the stability they keep promising over and over again. Until they prove otherwise, therefore, I won't trust them.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

... Behaving the way they did to Glendale (no matter how dumb and corrupt the CoG was and is) is also not a way to generate the Halo Effect.

IceArizona seems incapable of delivering on the stability they keep promising over and over again. Until they prove otherwise, therefore, I won't trust them.

This seems to be a recurring theme. I don't see that the Coyotes "did" anything nefarious to the COG. Announcing that they would fulfill their 2 year contract and then leave is not poor behavior. In fact, it was courteous. They could have shocked the COG by announcing (whenever that happens) that the Coyotes were building a new barn without giving the COG prior notice.

 

[Ebb]

A glass half empty type of person.

Although I haven't listened to the Indigo Girls in years, I do recall one of their lyrics (although I admit to doing some research to get the wording correct):

" 'Is the glass half-full or empty?' I ask her as I fill it / She said it doesn't really matter, pretty soon you're bound to spill it."

 

[The Feckless Puck]

This seems to be a recurring theme. I don't see that the Coyotes "did" anything nefarious to the COG. Announcing that they would fulfill their 2 year contract and then leave is not poor behavior. In fact, it was courteous. They could have shocked the COG by announcing (whenever that happens) that the Coyotes were building a new barn without giving the COG prior notice.

That's not what I'm referring to. The audit Glendale did of IceArizona's performance on their previous lease agreement is the smoking gun. And what is on the public record is not even the full story - IIRC one of the terms of the new lease agreement and the dropping of legal proceedings was that the full report would not be released.

The Coyotes would not have been looking for a new barn had they not been caught with their pants down regarding the audit and IA's conflict of interest with Tindall/Frisoni. Why would they? They had a sweetheart lease deal with $15M a year from the city on a platter. Their new arena search is one of necessity, not opportunity.

 

[RemoAZ]

Season tickets are an investment. You don't throw money into an investment when the company you're investing in looks like a raging dumpster fire. That's why all of this stuff about the ownership and front office and their business and operations decisions is important - because it is very clear to those of us in Arizona that there isn't enough trust built up between IA and the market for large-scale investment from either corporate or consumer groups.

If the Coyotes want our money, they need to earn our trust. Perennially being on the precipice of disaster is not a trust generator. Behaving the way they did to Glendale (no matter how dumb and corrupt the CoG was and is) is also not a way to generate the Halo Effect.

IceArizona seems incapable of delivering on the stability they keep promising over and over again. Until they prove otherwise, therefore, I won't trust them.

This is about where I am. I gave up my season tickets after 5 years a few years ago because I could no longer afford them. I can jump back in now with a commitment from a friend or two but I'm not even considering that until I know the team will be here (as in Glendale or Phoenix...no shot of making games in time after work in the east valley) and will be fun to watch. This ownership/management group gives me no confidence in either. You guys can bash the west side all you want but this team hasn't given the average fan any incentive to spend his/her hard earned dollars in years. Pathetic team + constant ownership drama = bad attendance anywhere in AZ. And I can't imagine how hard it is to sell to corporate sponsors with the way things have been. That has to be damn near impossible.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

It's really not a question of bashing the west side at all. I've bashed COG a lot, but that has nothing to do with the fans of the Coyotes who live on the west side. It's simple to me. The base of fan support has been shown to be on the east side of the city. I'm pretty sure that despite all the above reasons not to go to Coyotes games, the majority of those who do drive from the east side. My drive through Phoenix either via the 10,17 or Baseline Road for week night games is miserable. It keeps people from attending. If the base of fan support resided in the west side then the team would stay on that side.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

If the base of fan support resided in the west side then the team would stay on that side.

Perhaps in a vacuum, but based on the context of what went down between IA and Glendale and the mutual animosity that exists, even if all the fans of the team lived in Avondale the team would be looking for a new deal downtown or in the East Valley. LeBlanc is trying to do the best job he can to salt the earth in Glendale - IMO largely to deflect any further attention from the paper trail - so the only scenario where the Coyotes stay there to play is year-to-year deals until their new barn is built or until they relocate out of state.

There are too many connected threads in this labyrinthine story to reduce the situation down to STH mailing addresses.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Perhaps in a vacuum, but based on the context of what went down between IA and Glendale and the mutual animosity that exists, even if all the fans of the team lived in Avondale the team would be looking for a new deal downtown or in the East Valley. LeBlanc is trying to do the best job he can to salt the earth in Glendale - IMO largely to deflect any further attention from the paper trail - so the only scenario where the Coyotes stay there to play is year-to-year deals until their new barn is built or until they relocate out of state.

There are too many connected threads in this labyrinthine story to reduce the situation down to STH mailing addresses.

You go where the money is. Glendale made a huge mistake in building the arena and the spring training facilities. The deal was too good for Ellman to ignore but he should have realized this as well. Both the COG and Ellman tried to go big time and failed.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

You go where the money is. Glendale made a huge mistake in building the arena and the spring training facilities. The deal was too good for Ellman to ignore but he should have realized this as well. Both the COG and Ellman tried to go big time and failed.

Again, this has nothing to do with the current situation. It is impossible to cast the current arena issues with the Coyotes in the context of why they went out to Glendale in the first place - if for no other reason than it ignores everything that has happened from 2009 on.

For me the issue is pretty simple - is IceArizona capable? Everything at issue in this discussion - their willingness to cede so much control to Dave Tippett, having one of the owners take over Hockey Ops, hiring John Chayka, looking for a new arena after torpedoing a lease that granted them ludicrous amounts of taxpayer subsidies because of underperformance on their agreement and a conflict-of-interest issue with some of their hires - leads me to believe that they are not at this time. Could they become so? Maybe. But their trends so far are not moving towards capability, but rather towards a continuing shell game.

It has been suggested that we should trust the ownership to make the right decisions. I submit that we have a significant corpus of evidence that indicates that we should not do so. The whole issue of where the Coyotes' fans live is a pretext, a deflection, to draw attention away from the reason why they are looking for a new arena in the first place.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I would submit that, regardless of the competency, veracity or wealth of present management, the Coyotes have not been, and cannot be viable in Glendale without subsidies. They need to relocate closer to Scottsdale. (I'm in Ahwatukee by the way)

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I would submit that, regardless of the competency, veracity or wealth of present management, the Coyotes have not been, and cannot be viable in Glendale without subsidies. They need to relocate closer to Scottsdale. (I'm in Ahwatukee by the way)

Well, there's a whole 'nother discussion thread that can address that - if you ask me, the team can't survive without subsidies of some sort anywhere in the Valley with the debt load and losses they currently have. Moving them to Talking Stick with the tribe and a "creative" lease agreement that allows them more revenue thanks to their ability to drive traffic to the casino complex might work, and there's no question that the Talking Stick location is the most ideal since it is most adjacent to the biggest money in the metro area - personal as well as corporate - along with being closest to the largest numbers of hockey fans.

That said, the latest reports have Talking Stick at the bottom of IceArizona's list of probabilities. At the moment, they are making the most noise about the worst possible outcome - a shared arena with the Suns in downtown Phoenix - because Greg Stanton is a willing politicker for their cause. There could be a whole thread unto itself referring to the number of ways that will end badly, but still that's where LeBlanc and co. are currently hitching their wagon.

 

[Jakey53]

Season tickets are an investment. You don't throw money into an investment when the company you're investing in looks like a raging dumpster fire. That's why all of this stuff about the ownership and front office and their business and operations decisions is important - because it is very clear to those of us in Arizona that there isn't enough trust built up between IA and the market for large-scale investment from either corporate or consumer groups.

If the Coyotes want our money, they need to earn our trust. Perennially being on the precipice of disaster is not a trust generator. Behaving the way they did to Glendale (no matter how dumb and corrupt the CoG was and is) is also not a way to generate the Halo Effect.

IceArizona seems incapable of delivering on the stability they keep promising over and over again. Until they prove otherwise, therefore, I won't trust them.

That is fine, spend your money elsewhere. Invest where you feel comfortable.

 

[Jakey53]

Well, there's a whole 'nother discussion thread that can address that - if you ask me, the team can't survive without subsidies of some sort anywhere in the Valley with the debt load and losses they currently have. Moving them to Talking Stick with the tribe and a "creative" lease agreement that allows them more revenue thanks to their ability to drive traffic to the casino complex might work, and there's no question that the Talking Stick location is the most ideal since it is most adjacent to the biggest money in the metro area - personal as well as corporate - along with being closest to the largest numbers of hockey fans.

That said, the latest reports have Talking Stick at the bottom of IceArizona's list of probabilities. At the moment, they are making the most noise about the worst possible outcome - a shared arena with the Suns in downtown Phoenix - because Greg Stanton is a willing politicker for their cause. There could be a whole thread unto itself referring to the number of ways that will end badly, but still that's where LeBlanc and co. are currently hitching their wagon.

You have a right to your own opinion, but we don't know what is best because we do not have the details.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

That is fine, spend your money elsewhere. Invest where you feel comfortable.

Thanks, dad.

You have a right to your own opinion, but we don't know what is best because we do not have the details.

You have a right to your opinion on what I know or don't know.

 

[kihekah19*]

I wouldn't recommend anyone look as season tix as anything more than entertainment. I would consider them a horrible investment.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I wouldn't recommend anyone look as season tix as anything more than entertainment. I would consider them a horrible investment.

I don't know. For me, most of the years I had season tickets were worth the money because I got to spend time with my kids at the games. I wouldn't trade that away for anything. So for me it was a good investment.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Either Dan Bickey is really stupid or the Arizona Republic is getting paid to be the mouthpiece for the Coyotes or both. Whatever the case is, I'm really sick and tired of clowns at the Arizona Republic today really making all Coyotes fans and all hockey fans look bad with their garbage.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...ng-would-solve-arizona-coyotes-woes/84303628/

Meanwhile, Tippett is now the vice president of hockey operations. He has a 26-year-old general manager and a strong ally in Gary Drummond, the ownership piece who is running the show and smart enough to know Tippett’s value extends beyond coaching.

 

[TheLegend]

Either Dan Bickey is really stupid or the Arizona Republic is getting paid to be the mouthpiece for the Coyotes or both. Whatever the case is, I'm really sick and tired of clowns at the Arizona Republic today really making all Coyotes fans and all hockey fans look bad with their garbage.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...ng-would-solve-arizona-coyotes-woes/84303628/

Bickley's never really had much of a clue about anything. Every once in a while he gets something right but even a broken clock can do that more often.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

It's official - Dave Tippett now makes a million bucks a year more than a guy who has won two Cups and has only missed the playoffs twice as a head coach since 1992.

 

[Ebb]

Must [try to] post before Jakey...

Well, it is good that Tippett makes more (even though the term was a bit long for my taste). He has done so much with less that he deserves it. Let's not forget that tippet is also the Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations in addition to his duties as a head coach. Sutter is just a coach, so your criticism of Tippett's higher salary is unfounded.

 

[Jakey53]

It's official - Dave Tippett now makes a million bucks a year more than a guy who has won two Cups and has only missed the playoffs twice as a head coach since 1992.

In all honestly, I think DT is getting overpaid, and I really like him. I thought $3 mill/yr. would be about right.

 

[rt]

He's not even a good coach. He's a worse talent evaluator