Confirmed with Link: Dave Tippett signs 5-year contract extension

[TheLegend]

Unless the Barroway deal was unwound, the value was $305 million. I don't care what Forbes thinks, it is irrelevant when a recent purchase went through. Purchases always set value, not magazines or valuations firms. Yes, they are leveraged, and yes they are using the NHL line of credit. So what, many if not most business's of this size and nature use some leverage. Money, because interest rates are so low, is still dirt cheap.

Yes..... and paying back those loans depends upon having the cash to do so.

But.... if you're losing $16 million per year (despite getting an extra $9 million up front from the city), the cash has to come from somewhere.

IA is made up of a number of wealthy individuals, but they aren't stupidly rich to the point where they can cover losses AND pay off their financing no matter the interest rate.

 

[Jakey53]

Yes..... and paying back those loans depends upon having the cash to do so.

But.... if you're losing $16 million per year (despite getting an extra $9 million up front from the city), the cash has to come from somewhere.

IA is made up of a number of wealthy individuals, but they aren't stupidly rich to the point where they can cover losses AND pay off their financing no matter the interest rate.

Losing $16 million per year? Can you email the financials, I would like to look them over?

 

[TheLegend]

Losing $16 million per year? Can you email the financials, I would like to look them over?

Don't be a smart ass.

The $16 million per year number came directly from LeBlanc's mouth at a town hall meeting last year.

If you want me to go a little further the total losses for the year (again from same meeting) was roughly $34 million. That included the one time acquisition costs of the franchise and Ribiero's contract buyout. Which had to be reported in whole up front per general accounting practices.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

When talking about profit and loss of the Coyotes, we seem to miss the bigger picture. There are two things to note.

First, most sport franchises are the status symbols and playthings of the owners. They are not the primary or secondary sources of income. They are the Ferraris of those who use cigarette money to buy Ferraris.

Second, they are a wonderful mechanism to offset profits from other parts of the financial empire.

 

[cobra427]

Don't be a smart ass.

The $16 million per year number came directly from LeBlanc's mouth at a town hall meeting last year.

If you want me to go a little further the total losses for the year (again from same meeting) was roughly $34 million. That included the one time acquisition costs of the franchise and Ribiero's contract buyout. Which had to be reported in whole up front per general accounting practices.

The question is, what is the cash burn? If it is 16 mill but the value of the franchise goes up more then 16 mill on average every year, the ownership group is ahead. The value of the franchise is 305 mill or better, and likely 500 mill or better now based on franchise values of pro sports. The amount of money a new franchise will pay to get in the game will be 500 mill to 1 billion.

IA stole the existing franchise and now have an appreciated asset that will continue to appreciate for many years. The appreciation so far, exceeds the cash burn, and over time, the cash burn likely comes down. Any way you slice it, the original IA ownership group, and Barroway, will do very well with their investment.

 

[Jakey53]

Don't be a smart ass.

The $16 million per year number came directly from LeBlanc's mouth at a town hall meeting last year.

If you want me to go a little further the total losses for the year (again from same meeting) was roughly $34 million. That included the one time acquisition costs of the franchise and Ribiero's contract buyout. Which had to be reported in whole up front per general accounting practices.

Not being a smart ass. I just can't remember that figure unless it was after the first year of operating the franchise.

It's kind of funny that everything that Al says that you don't like (a positive) you jump all over him saying you don't trust him, yet when he says something you like (a negative) you quote him. So, either you trust him or you don't.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

When talking about profit and loss of the Coyotes, we seem to miss the bigger picture. There are two things to note.

First, most sport franchises are the status symbols and playthings of the owners. They are not the primary or secondary sources of income. They are the Ferraris of those who use cigarette money to buy Ferraris.

Second, they are a wonderful mechanism to offset profits from other parts of the financial empire.

That applies more towards single owners - guys like Terry Pegula in Buffalo and Mark Cuban in Dallas who are richer than God and basically need to burn money in order not to get taxed too heavily.

IceArizona is certainly not in that situation. The group of investors that make up the ownership cabal are certainly wealthy enough but they needed their combined wealth to be able to afford the team at its purchase price, and they are still heavily leveraged in terms of loans.

In one sense, yes, the franchise is a status symbol for these guys, but it's not a plaything like other franchises are for the super-wealthy. It's important to understand the somewhat unique circumstances we have with our ownership group compared to others.

 

[XX]

First, most sport franchises are the status symbols and playthings of the owners. They are not the primary or secondary sources of income. They are the Ferraris of those who use cigarette money to buy Ferraris.

Second, they are a wonderful mechanism to offset profits from other parts of the financial empire.

Who do you think IA are? They're absolute nobodies on the financial scale necessary to own a team.

 

[kihekah19*]

Who do you think IA are? They're absolute nobodies on the financial scale necessary to own a team.

That's what I've always thought, but I don't know that anyone has ever proven this to be the case. Recent developments are making me question this consensus.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

That's what I've always thought, but I don't know that anyone has ever proven this to be the case. Recent developments are making me question this consensus.

I don't think they're destitute penny-pinchers - relatively speaking - but I also don't think they're the kind of mogul-type flush-with-cash playboys that many on the BoG are. Like I said before, they had to pool a lot of people together to come up with an amount that other franchise owners basically consider coffee money.

I think they have more resources than many expected (myself included) but they seem pretty loathe to spend it unless they can't get it from someone else.

 

[Jakey53]

Who do you think IA are? They're absolute nobodies on the financial scale necessary to own a team.

I think you need to add IMO to your post.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Who do you think IA are? They're absolute nobodies on the financial scale necessary to own a team.

I only know of Barroway. He's actually a heavyweight. The other guys I don't know if they're nobodies or Canadian phenoms.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I think you need to add IMO to your post.

I think you need to reread sniperhf's post about taking everyone's post as an opinion. Just about every post is an opinion, it's implied. You've had this explained to you several times now, it's not a difficult concept.

 

[Jakey53]

I think you need to reread sniperhf's post about taking everyone's post as an opinion. Just about every post is an opinion, it's implied. You've had this explained to you several times now, it's not a difficult concept.

Not an opinion when you use the word absolute. It really is not a difficult concept when used correctly.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Not an opinion when you use the word absolute. It really is not a difficult concept when used correctly.

Uhhhhh nevermind apparently it is a difficult concept for some.

 

[KG]

IA is not rich compared to other team owners. They had to take out a high interest loan from fortress to even finance the purchase. Barroway bailed them out of that.

I don't think they're afraid to spend money, but they definitely can't afford to spend to the cap or spend year after year losing 16m. Other teams have much more robust ownerships group that's includes multi billionaires or ownership of multiple sports and entertainment franchises.

IA's finances are not a matter of opinion, but rather a matter of fact

 

[Jakey53]

IA is not rich compared to other team owners. They had to take out a high interest loan from fortress to even finance the purchase. Barroway bailed them out of that.

I don't think they're afraid to spend money, but they definitely can't afford to spend to the cap or spend year after year losing 16m. Other teams have much more robust ownerships group that's includes multi billionaires or ownership of multiple sports and entertainment franchises.

IA's finances are not a matter of opinion, but rather a matter of fact

There are some very rich owners in the NHL and I don't think IA is near that level, but I have no idea what their finances look like, and neither does anyone else. It's not easy to own a NHL franchise as most of us have seen, so I give IA full marks for purchasing the team when others have failed.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

These threads remind me of this

 

[TheLegend]

Okay..... Let's see if I can make this clear for everyone..... And I won't be entertaining any further discussion about it so read carefully.

We come here to share opinions and information.... And as such there is going to be plenty of times when one or more people do not agree with said information or opinions.

That is perfectly fine because if we all agreed with each other life would be boring as hell.

HOWEVER..... there is a decorum to be followed. And that includes if you don't agree with an opinion or the information being presented you are encouraged to address that opinion or information. What you are NOT allowed to do is make it personal. And that includes telling another poster how he or she should post.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

There are some very rich owners in the NHL and I don't think IA is near that level, but I have no idea what their finances look like, and neither does anyone else. It's not easy to own a NHL franchise as most of us have seen, so I give IA full marks for purchasing the team when others have failed.

I don't have any idea of their actual financials but I do know this - in order to purchase the team and keep operating it, they had to pool their resources in aggregate at a time when the franchise was worth $170M, and they had to be highly leveraged to do so. Barroway's entry allowed them to refinance to a much better loan. But I'm not sure that Barroway is a "heavyweight" either because his initial purchase as majority owner hit some snags in financing that forced Gary Drummond to buy back some of his shares.

It's probably simplest to say that there is nothing traditional about IceArizona's ownership structure. I have plenty of questions about the power structure and who's really footing all the bills in the group. I also don't know exactly what Barroway's real role is - he's ostensibly the majority owner but he doesn't act like it. Gary Drummond is the one making all of the decisions behind the scenes, while Barroway seems content to be the wallet and to show the team off to his parents once in a while.

Why they actually purchased the team is a mystery to me. I do not believe for one minute that they did so because of a belief in hockey working in Arizona. Their performance in Glendale, as entered into the public record via the Glendale audit, does not fill me with optimism about their financial viability or their egalitarianism towards the market. At one point I thought Barroway bought majority interest to flip the team as it appreciated in value, but now I'm not so sure.

I'm sure I'd be happier if I activated ostrich mode and just trust IceArizona to run the team, but that isn't going to happen so long as Anthony LeBlanc's Happy Funtime Circus of Prevarication and Spin Doctoring keeps rolling on its merry way.

 

[Snarky Coyote]

Prevarication awesome word for what its worth.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I don't have any idea of their actual financials but I do know this - in order to purchase the team and keep operating it, they had to pool their resources in aggregate at a time when the franchise was worth $170M, and they had to be highly leveraged to do so. Barroway's entry allowed them to refinance to a much better loan. But I'm not sure that Barroway is a "heavyweight" either because his initial purchase as majority owner hit some snags in financing that forced Gary Drummond to buy back some of his shares.

It's probably simplest to say that there is nothing traditional about IceArizona's ownership structure. I have plenty of questions about the power structure and who's really footing all the bills in the group. I also don't know exactly what Barroway's real role is - he's ostensibly the majority owner but he doesn't act like it. Gary Drummond is the one making all of the decisions behind the scenes, while Barroway seems content to be the wallet and to show the team off to his parents once in a while.

Why they actually purchased the team is a mystery to me. I do not believe for one minute that they did so because of a belief in hockey working in Arizona. Their performance in Glendale, as entered into the public record via the Glendale audit, does not fill me with optimism about their financial viability or their egalitarianism towards the market. At one point I thought Barroway bought majority interest to flip the team as it appreciated in value, but now I'm not so sure.

I'm sure I'd be happier if I activated ostrich mode and just trust IceArizona to run the team, but that isn't going to happen so long as Anthony LeBlanc's Happy Funtime Circus of Prevarication and Spin Doctoring keeps rolling on its merry way.

I still wonder if they ownership group knew expansion was coming, and figured if they buy the team, they finance in the short term, and pay it off when expansion occurs with the massive expansion fees. Boom free hockey team. Then if hockey works in the desert, great, you own a team you got for very little cost in a huge potential market, if it doesn't you either relocate or sell it for some easy money. The purchase and relocation of the falcons makes me believe they're trying to make it work here, but they need to announce something on the arena front before I ditch my pessimism.

 

[Jakey53]

I don't have any idea of their actual financials but I do know this - in order to purchase the team and keep operating it, they had to pool their resources in aggregate at a time when the franchise was worth $170M, and they had to be highly leveraged to do so. Barroway's entry allowed them to refinance to a much better loan. But I'm not sure that Barroway is a "heavyweight" either because his initial purchase as majority owner hit some snags in financing that forced Gary Drummond to buy back some of his shares.

It's probably simplest to say that there is nothing traditional about IceArizona's ownership structure. I have plenty of questions about the power structure and who's really footing all the bills in the group. I also don't know exactly what Barroway's real role is - he's ostensibly the majority owner but he doesn't act like it. Gary Drummond is the one making all of the decisions behind the scenes, while Barroway seems content to be the wallet and to show the team off to his parents once in a while.

Why they actually purchased the team is a mystery to me. I do not believe for one minute that they did so because of a belief in hockey working in Arizona. Their performance in Glendale, as entered into the public record via the Glendale audit, does not fill me with optimism about their financial viability or their egalitarianism towards the market. At one point I thought Barroway bought majority interest to flip the team as it appreciated in value, but now I'm not so sure.

I'm sure I'd be happier if I activated ostrich mode and just trust IceArizona to run the team, but that isn't going to happen so long as Anthony LeBlanc's Happy Funtime Circus of Prevarication and Spin Doctoring keeps rolling on its merry way.

Edmonton had, I believe, 16 owners and the current owner stays out of the public eyes. I don't care about all the speculation on how much they are worth, who is going to be calling the shots, the management structure etc. The team is in Arizona, the future looks bright, what more can you ask for? It's finally time to enjoy this team with all the talent coming up.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I still wonder if they ownership group knew expansion was coming, and figured if they buy the team, they finance in the short term, and pay it off when expansion occurs with the massive expansion fees. Boom free hockey team. Then if hockey works in the desert, great, you own a team you got for very little cost in a huge potential market, if it doesn't you either relocate or sell it for some easy money. The purchase and relocation of the falcons makes me believe they're trying to make it work here, but they need to announce something on the arena front before I ditch my pessimism.

I'm hoping the Falcons thing goes through without Tucson having to pay public money for the privilege. The trend of IA constantly asking for handouts that they pretend aren't handouts is worrisome to me.

The team is in Arizona, the future looks bright, what more can you ask for? It's finally time to enjoy this team with all the talent coming up.

I'll be a lot happier when the expansion announcement is made. And I'll just hope we keep all that talent, because that's in no way, shape, or form a sure thing at this point.

 

[Jakey53]

I still wonder if they ownership group knew expansion was coming, and figured if they buy the team, they finance in the short term, and pay it off when expansion occurs with the massive expansion fees. Boom free hockey team. Then if hockey works in the desert, great, you own a team you got for very little cost in a huge potential market, if it doesn't you either relocate or sell it for some easy money. The purchase and relocation of the falcons makes me believe they're trying to make it work here, but they need to announce something on the arena front before I ditch my pessimism.

They have already sold the majority for what they bought it for and still own 49%. It's already FREE.