Confirmed with Link: Datsyuk re-signs for 3 years 22.5m/7.5 per year cap hit

[Bench]

granted it could've meant dekeyser didn't play as much, but that's still a trade off i take for this past postseason.

Particularly when you consider he got hurt immediately.

I'm not big on "what if" games but the Wings were one great puck mover from being a far more formidable threat. The Suter thing stings tremendously for this very reason.

 

[kuick]

Please show that picture to Kronwall

Kronner has to stay on his feet so he can skate back to the bench and hide.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Congrats Wings fans. Great player and you have to be pleased as punch he'll be wearing the winged wheel for at least 4 more seasons.

 

[ricky0034]

And yet,,, who were the five final teams still in the playoffs this year:
LA
Boston
Chicago
Pittsburg
Detroit
Who also happen to be the five previous cup winners.

And who were the teams who didn't make the playoffs? Well, start in the southeast, and follow along the trail of non-traditional markets.

The cap for next year is $64M and the floor is $44M

Given the competition for players, there is still a big difference between the haves and have nots.

And NHL results are a leading indication of that.

and last year Florida and Phoenix not only made the Playoffs but even won their division

and the final four in the Playoffs was:

NY Rangers
New Jersey
Los Angeles
Phoenix

none of which had even made it past the first round once in the 3 prior years


you really shouldn't judge this kind of thing on just one season,especially a shortened season

 

[Brick Top]

We aren't getting there in 2013-14 without serious improvement. We're scraping to get in the playoffs and our fate will continue to sink as Datsyuk and Zetterberg decline unless we find a new star center or change our entire MO

I don't know about having to find a star center immediately, but I'm on board with needing improvements to really contend in the next 2 seasons or so. Up front, the 2 star forwards are over 30 and there's no bridge of talented younger top six guys to ease the transition to guys like Nyquist and Tatar. I guess KH thought Flip could be a bridge guy, but that didn't work out. I think they need to pick up top 6 scorer apart from Brunner this off-season.

On the blueline, IMO it's a pretty average group. Definitely some room for improvement out of some guys, but I think a legit top 4 D-man would really help.

I won't hold my breath on KH acquiring a top 6 scorer and top 4 defenseman in the same offseason, though- seems a tad aggressive for his recent track record.

 

[BinCookin]

First off, welcome sportsballchic, nice to see another optimist in the sea of pessimism that is HFBoards. People like to complain here, so feel free not to take their comments all that seriously.

The fact that this thread has come down to debating the direction of the wings suggests that signing Datsyuk is questionable.

My God.

I wrote a month ago that if Datsyuk wants 10mil per year, we pay it and smile.

We just got him for 7.5 (That is a great deal).

He will now be a red wing long enough to justify possibly retiring his jersey one day.

This is great news (There is no bad news here dummy's)


Let me paraphrase the naysayers:

"but our team sucks now, and with Datsyuk and Zetterberg, we cant place last, thus cant get high draft picks, to get good players that would be 19-20 years old and might one day be as good (unlikely) as Datsyuk and Zetterberg themselves. Oh and look how old they are... they will probably break a hip next season."

Something like that.

Our team did very well this year.
They exceeded expectations near the end of the season when things count.
With bounces going a few different ways, neither Chicago or Boston are in the stanley cup finals.
When Holland says, all you have to do is get into the playoffs, you have a chance... yes that is right.
If you want the team to resemble the edmonton oilers.... just go cheer for the oilers... but honestly, does anyone think they are 3 years away from a FOR SURE stanley cup???

Be careful what you wish for fans.
You want the team to tank and sell everyone off... be prepared to have your patience expire, and for you to stop watching the red wings. (Just ask the fans of the 80's).

We have had an amazing run.

Are there things to complain about... of course
(I would have loved to sign Semin. I would have loved to get Parise or Suter)
But things didn't work out that way.

Continue to cheer on my team. Continue to hope they win as usual. I thought we were destined for the basement when shanahan and yzerman retired.. they proved me wrong.

I hope the current team proves all the naysayers wrong here... and secretly, they hope so too!

 

[SportsballChic]

First off, welcome sportsballchic, nice to see another optimist in the sea of pessimism that is HFBoards. People like to complain here, so feel free not to take their comments all that seriously.

That's okay; takes all kinds ya know? Everyone has a right to an opinion and frankly I really enjoy reading them all in one place here on the forum. I just won't be called "a slappy" when the situation isn't resolved yet and very much *could* still break Holland's (and our) way. Like I said, when this wave of kids, ALL of them (the GR 3 and the next wave of Jarnkrok, Turco, Sheahan, etc) flop then you can call me a slappy.

By that token tho, I do concede that it *might* not work out either. One thing I will say: I'm glad finishing bottom 5 is not acceptable to the Franchise. I do not want to become the Oilers and I have little respect for Pittsburgh because of how that team was built.

I hope the current team proves all the naysayers wrong here... and secretly, they hope so too!

Yeah, this part blows my mind. I had literally ZERO expectation coming into last season that we'd be good at all. When we lost out on Suter, I honestly thought "well that's it. Now we'll suck for 2-3 seasons". You have *any* idea how happy I am to be wrong right now? Perspective is everything, 2013 was a great year for the Wings. I expect 2014 to be better but yeah, we probably don't win the Cup. Conference finals is a realistic goal however.

If you had told me on Jan 1st 2013 "You can have a top 8 finish, another likely top 8 finish w/ a shot at the conference finals in 2014 and the whole thing flips over back to "normal" in season 3" I would have snap taken that.

Btw, when does the season start?

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

This thread is about Datsyuk can we bring it back on topic?

Saw Datsyuk playing tennis the other day

 

[SportsballChic]

This thread is about Datsyuk can we bring it back on topic?

Saw Datsyuk playing tennis the other day

Is he good? I mean if you're gonna lead off with a breaking story like that I think we deserve some more details.

I know guys over at r/DetroitRedWings are constantly posting pictures of Datsyuk fishing and I can say with some confidence that he's either very good or holding up someone else's large fish in those pictures.

On topic: Assuming you're keeping Dats and Hank split up, who's your ideal 2nd line Wingers to pair with him? You can spend FA money if you want, within reason obviously.

I'm going to go with Abby and Tatar because I'm greedy and I want to see Tatar develop as quickly as possible. I think he's got "the touch" and I think Pav's numbers will benefit from having two goal scorers rather than putting him on a line with another playmaker. (and yes in this scenario I'm assuming Abby is a 20 goal scorer, shoot me.)

 

[RedWingsNow*]

and last year Florida and Phoenix not only made the Playoffs but even won their division

and the final four in the Playoffs was:

NY Rangers
New Jersey
Los Angeles
Phoenix

none of which had even made it past the first round once in the 3 prior years


you really shouldn't judge this kind of thing on just one season,especially a shortened season

I'm confident that if you aggregate points of established vs unestablished markets or, the totals would support my idea.

A $20M difference in cap hit obviously doesn't guarantee anything - but it's a major advantage, obviously for any franchise who can support to max out the cap.

If you don't think $20M is meaningful -- how much better would your capgeek roster look if you were given an extra $20M to play with.

And to pretend that everyone has equal chance is kind of silly.

Nashville had a two year window and then they had to blow it up. Phoenix relies on a coach with a great defensive system and hopes it's enough.

Here are the goofy markets since the cap was installed
Phoenix
5 times miss the playofffs
Lose round 1 twice
Lose round 3 once

Atlanta
5 times miss the playofffs
Lose round 1 once.

Carolina
6 times miss the playoffs
Won the cup once
Lost in round 3 once

Florida
7 times miss the playoffs
lost in round 1 once
Tampa

Dallas
5 times miss the playoffs
lost in round twice
Lost in round 3 twice

Columbus
7 times miss the playoffs
lost in round once

Even a team like Colorado -- which has started to act like a small market team--has started to perform like a small market team.

There is no parity in the NHL.

It's a myth.

It's more level than it once was. But it's not level.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I don't know about having to find a star center immediately, but I'm on board with needing improvements to really contend in the next 2 seasons or so. Up front, the 2 star forwards are over 30 and there's no bridge of talented younger top six guys to ease the transition to guys like Nyquist and Tatar. I guess KH thought Flip could be a bridge guy, but that didn't work out. I think they need to pick up top 6 scorer apart from Brunner this off-season.

On the blueline, IMO it's a pretty average group. Definitely some room for improvement out of some guys, but I think a legit top 4 D-man would really help.

I won't hold my breath on KH acquiring a top 6 scorer and top 4 defenseman in the same offseason, though- seems a tad aggressive for his recent track record.

I think you're mostly dead on. But I don't think we need a bridge to Nyquist and Tatar. I think they're ready. You've got to give them the role though. You can't play them 12 minutes a night. They need 18 with PP time.

 

[odin1981]

Is he good? I mean if you're gonna lead off with a breaking story like that I think we deserve some more details.

I know guys over at r/DetroitRedWings are constantly posting pictures of Datsyuk fishing and I can say with some confidence that he's either very good or holding up someone else's large fish in those pictures.

On topic: Assuming you're keeping Dats and Hank split up, who's your ideal 2nd line Wingers to pair with him? You can spend FA money if you want, within reason obviously.

I'm going to go with Abby and Tatar because I'm greedy and I want to see Tatar develop as quickly as possible. I think he's got "the touch" and I think Pav's numbers will benefit from having two goal scorers rather than putting him on a line with another playmaker. (and yes in this scenario I'm assuming Abby is a 20 goal scorer, shoot me.)

In regards to who we get with z and datsyuk here is my take:

1a line Z/Franzen/eaves or affordable fa 1pair d Kron, ericcson
1b line D/Jagr or Iginla (3-4 mil 1-2 yr )/Brunner 2paird Scuderi/smith
2/3line the gr kids 3paird Dekeyser/kindl
energy Helm (?),abby, miller cc 7th
tootoo,emmerton

Ltir bert (he is done) buyout sammy saving one for next year trade fils rights for a pick (any really hopefully though a 3-5 rounder), trade quincy for anything at draft/offseason as well (cap room), pray to whatever higher power you put faith in that scuderi doesn't get resigned in la and pick him up 2-4 year 4-5 million. Lashoff for a bag of pucks (7th rounder). If we can trade emmerton for a 5-7th round pick. First call ups: ferraro, sheahan, ironhook. Wouldn't suprise me though if abby is still with dats though so tootoo could move to 4th line.

 

[SportsballChic]

In regards to who we get with z and datsyuk here is my take:

1a line Z/Franzen/eaves or affordable fa 1pair d Kron, ericcson
1b line D/Jagr or Iginla (3-4 mil 1-2 yr )/Brunner 2paird Scuderi/smith
2/3line the gr kids 3paird Dekeyser/kindl
energy Helm (?),abby, miller cc 7th
tootoo,emmerton

Ltir bert (he is done) buyout sammy saving one for next year trade fils rights for a pick (any really hopefully though a 3-5 rounder), trade quincy for anything at draft/offseason as well (cap room), pray to whatever higher power you put faith in that scuderi doesn't get resigned in la and pick him up 2-4 year 4-5 million. Lashoff for a bag of pucks (7th rounder). If we can trade emmerton for a 5-7th round pick. First call ups: ferraro, sheahan, ironhook. Wouldn't suprise me though if abby is still with dats though so tootoo could move to 4th line.

Okay, just a couple of questions:

A) So by that you mean we should get Iginla/Jagr AND a potential 1st line FA forward?

B) I'm almost 100% sure Scuderi isn't gonna be available but if he is, I assume that means we only get 1 forward right?

My other question is, Eaves up top? I'm not sure I really trust that. I'd almost rather play Miller there (not that I'd want to play either of them but Miller seems like he has more pop, Eaves is just crazy responsible defensively. Respect both guys but wonder if either on the 1st line doesn't mean we're boned).

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Eaves has a 20 goal season in the NHL to his credit. He's a righthander who can shoot and battle and be somewhat effective offensively, as we saw the the Tatar-Andersson-Eaves line.
He's not ideal..

Over at RWC, there's a thread about Tampa buying out VinnyLC
Of course, the immediate though is that he'd go to Montreal.
But would you pay VinnyLC, say 4 years, 20M?

 

[Winger98]

Eaves has a 20 goal season in the NHL to his credit. He's a righthander who can shoot and battle and be somewhat effective offensively, as we saw the the Tatar-Andersson-Eaves line.
He's not ideal..

Over at RWC, there's a thread about Tampa buying out VinnyLC
Of course, the immediate though is that he'd go to Montreal.
But would you pay VinnyLC, say 4 years, 20M?

Couldn't say yes fast enough. I think he'd get more than that, though.

 

[SportsballChic]

Eaves has a 20 goal season in the NHL to his credit. He's a righthander who can shoot and battle and be somewhat effective offensively, as we saw the the Tatar-Andersson-Eaves line.
He's not ideal..

Over at RWC, there's a thread about Tampa buying out VinnyLC
Of course, the immediate though is that he'd go to Montreal.
But would you pay VinnyLC, say 4 years, 20M?

I would, but I gotta be honest: I don't think we can get him that cheap. Someone else would fork over more. Seriously though? I think he'd be better for what the Wings need than ANYONE else on the market.

D'awww now you got my hopes up!

 

[Kronwalled55]

I tried to keep it somewhat realistic, but I wouldn't mind this. Also, I really am clueless on what our young RFAs will get, so bare with me. Kindl will probably get over 2 mil, but who knows.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.650m)
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($5.500m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)/

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($1.950m) / Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) /

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,794,545; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,515,455

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I tried to keep it somewhat realistic, but I wouldn't mind this. Also, I really am clueless on what our young RFAs will get, so bare with me. Kindl will probably get over 2 mil, but who knows.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup

FORWARDS
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Gustav Nyquist ($1.650m)
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($5.500m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m)
Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)/

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($1.950m) / Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m)
Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.250m)
Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) /

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,794,545; BONUSES: $1,010,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,515,455

Kindl wont get over $2 million they already said that our RFA will get slightly more then $1 million around $1.25 million or $1.35 million Smith, Kindl, Nyquist, Andersson. LeCavalier wont be bought out this year Tampa Bay has other options like Malone, Brewer have Ohlund retire that alone will clear about $11 million in cap space LeCavalier could be bought out next year but seriously doubt this year. Wheres Brunner i'm sure he will be back.

 

[odin1981]

Okay, just a couple of questions:

A) So by that you mean we should get Iginla/Jagr AND a potential 1st line FA forward?

B) I'm almost 100% sure Scuderi isn't gonna be available but if he is, I assume that means we only get 1 forward right?

My other question is, Eaves up top? I'm not sure I really trust that. I'd almost rather play Miller there (not that I'd want to play either of them but Miller seems like he has more pop, Eaves is just crazy responsible defensively. Respect both guys but wonder if either on the 1st line doesn't mean we're boned).

1. sorry wasn't clear and my formating was messed up one of not both. There are also no potential first line forwards in FA this year but if we could find a top 6 capable winger (more a 2nd liner) that doesn't cost above 5 mill per year I would think about it if I where Kenny.

2. Yeah I'm not holding my breath but out of all the potential d in FA he is the only one I'd want to lock up.

Eaves to me has history as a 20 goal scorer. Plus he is a rh shot. So he if noone is brought in would be my ideal winger for either dats or z. Miller is fine 3 or 4th line in my eyes but I don't think he could pop in 20+ goals on a top line facing top pairing matchups (doubt eaves could either but both our is better than cleary).

I personally believe that with the salary cap now it will be hard to have a true top 6 that are all actual top 6'rs. Outside of pens and chicago (who both went all in this year) most teams only have 5 out of 6 guys that are. Its not impossible but if you go with a "true" top 6 you will have holes elsewhere.

With my roster however I feel we would have 3 scoring lines and a energy line that are all pretty defensively responsible. Dats line would be the most suspect in my eyes but he did fine with abby and cleary and has had to log along homer and franzen in the past.

 

[SportsballChic]

Guys, that 20 goal season might as well have been 100 years ago. The stats just don't bear it out:

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470622

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470778

I mean, point taken Miller can't do it either but Eaves isn't a top 6 forward or even a reasonable facsimile of one. Watching games I never got the impression he was a 20 goal talent either so it's not just a numbers thing; the eye test also says keep him out of the top 6.

Probably why both guys were on the 4th line by the end of the season I guess. In short, I'd be extremely unhappy if either ended up in our top 6 except as a rotation option in case someone got hurt, lazy or stupid.

Edit: Although I do see Odin's point about spreading out your scoring options and less defined rolls for each line. I'm just pretty sure Eaves shouldn't be up there unless something goes horribly wrong; Pavel would have to carry him so hard imo.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Guys, that 20 goal season might as well have been 100 years ago. The stats just don't bear it out:

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470622

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470778

I mean, point taken Miller can't do it either but Eaves isn't a top 6 forward or even a reasonable facsimile of one. Watching games I never got the impression he was a 20 goal talent either so it's not just a numbers thing; the eye test also says keep him out of the top 6.

Probably why both guys were on the 4th line by the end of the season I guess. In short, I'd be extremely unhappy if either ended up in our top 6 except as a rotation option in case someone got hurt, lazy or stupid.

Nobody says he's a legit top line guy. You're not telling anyone anything they don't know.
Tomas Holmstrom wasn't a legit top line guy. Danny Cleary wasn't a legit top line guy. Justin Abdelkader wasn't a legit top line guy. Drew Miller wasn't a legit top line guy.
But they've all played on the top line and fit with varying levels of success (Abdelkader and Miller having the least success).

When you have Datsyuk and Zetterberg together, you don't need Sidney Crosby as your third linemate

Back in 2008, I'm sure some Penguins fans didn't think much of Pascal Dupuis. Sure, six years ago, early in his career, he popped in 20 goals, but he'd settled into a 10 goal guy (better than Eaves has been. but still).

But he did a nice job. He became a 17 to 20 goal guy and scored at a 35 goal pace this year.

It's not only about their stats. It's about their skill set. Eaves as a fairly decent complementary skill set.

 

[SportsballChic]

Nobody says he's a legit top line guy. You're not telling anyone anything they don't know.
Tomas Holmstrom wasn't a legit top line guy. Danny Cleary wasn't a legit top line guy. Justin Abdelkader wasn't a legit top line guy. Drew Miller wasn't a legit top line guy.
But they've all played on the top line and fit with varying levels of success (Abdelkader and Miller having the least success).

When you have Datsyuk and Zetterberg together, you don't need Sidney Crosby as your third linemate

That's fine, I'm okay with him playing "some time there" but if we're going to give him an extended role there that would be *very* disappointing to me. One of my favorite things about Miller and Eaves is that they're 4th line guys who're probably too good for that role and can spot up top if necessary. But spot up top, not live there. I'd MUCH rather see Tatar get those minutes.

Call me a slappy, I'm okay with it. #GettingTheHangOfThis

 

[odin1981]

Don't get me wrong I'd love for nyq or tats to get top 6 time but they probably aren't ready for it. IF injury's happen and they move up cool but I'd rather them play a year on line three getting their chemistry together and confidence building on 3rd pair d matchups then try to go man vs man against some 27+ year old that is completley physically developed.

 

[Heaton]

Nobody says he's a legit top line guy. You're not telling anyone anything they don't know.
Tomas Holmstrom wasn't a legit top line guy. Danny Cleary wasn't a legit top line guy. Justin Abdelkader wasn't a legit top line guy. Drew Miller wasn't a legit top line guy.
But they've all played on the top line and fit with varying levels of success (Abdelkader and Miller having the least success).

When you have Datsyuk and Zetterberg together, you don't need Sidney Crosby as your third linemate

Back in 2008, I'm sure some Penguins fans didn't think much of Pascal Dupuis. Sure, six years ago, early in his career, he popped in 20 goals, but he'd settled into a 10 goal guy (better than Eaves has been. but still).

But he did a nice job. He became a 17 to 20 goal guy and scored at a 35 goal pace this year.

It's not only about their stats. It's about their skill set. Eaves as a fairly decent complementary skill set.

Holmstrom was a proven offensive producer though, that was his game. What Eaves did his first few years in the league in a different role really doesn't matter at this point. I just think if we're going to shift the lineup because the one we used in this past postseason wasn't good enough I don't see enough of a difference between Eaves and Abdelkader besides the fact that Eaves is a right handed shot and shoots more. IMO if we want that, keep Samuelsson, he'll be better in that role.

 

[Outl4w]

What do you feel about targeting Malone from tampa? Swapping dead weight like CC, Sammy, or Tootoo?