Player Discussion Darnell Nurse - To bridge or not to bridge, that is the question.

[Mr Positive]

The thing I can't really understand is if you are the Nurse Camp why do you allow this to drag down after guys like Cagg and Strome get overpaid? It seems you would want first dibs and certainly Nurse is more important signing than the other two. So why be the last? When $ is limited it makes no sense. Nurse's agent should have fought hard to get this one done before the others.

Strome's offer was straightforward, and it was the result of his minimum qualifying offer. We didn't want to expose him to free agency.

With Caggiula, the number is so low that I doubt he could point to it, and I don't think it is a coincidence that his second contract was just a touch above what his last one would have been if he hit his bonuses. I know that's not a great line to feed Nurse's agent, but it does complicate the comparison.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Come on Drive. Caggiula got a $150K raise. Strome got a $600K raise. Far from overpays in either case.

If Nurse would have been willing to take 'only' a million dollar raise he would have been signed a long time ago. Nurse is looking to make big money. If Nurse wanted this to get done early he could have taken less money.

That they even continue to exist here is overpay. Especially with Caggiulia. I simply wouldn't have him in a lineup. Plus I doubt Chia would have extended Strome were it not for that he feels he needs something from the Eberle trade.

Cagg is a definition fill player. A lot of good teams will just find a hard working AHL ex ready to work hard from the dream and that will obviously do it for less.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If he keeps insisting on $5 million + AAV long term I'd consider trading him. I am tired of players wanting to be paid big $, then they don't live up to their deals and then demonize the Edmonton fans for being too hard on them. Dumba and Trouba are both much better players than Nurse as of this time (and that may not change) and both have signed bridge deals after their ELC's ended. Meanwhile Nurse wants to be paid near UFA $ when he hasn't proven much at the NHL level? I'm glad that for once Chia seems to have dug his heels in on a negotiation, he can't keep rolling over and showing his belly to every agent if we are to ice a competitive team moving forward.

 

[Drivesaitl]

double post

 

[joestevens29]

I absolutely hate that though. Bridge deals should be only for players that you are unsure about. Like for instance, if we had to re-sign Puljujarvi right now a bridge would be appropriate. Nurse has proven enough and shown clear progression.

imo bridging Nurse right now would be a consequence of poor management, particularly poor cap management. Just like with Subban in Montreal, it's a high risk, low reward play to bridge him.

And btw, I've defended Chia's cap management up till now. I know he's had some rough deals, but I say those deals were as high as they were for good reason, and ultimately it doesn't matter how tight the cap is as long as it is carefully coordinated and managed. If Nurse were bridged now, it would be the first sign to me that our cap is not being managed properly at all, and that our core is in serious risk because of it. It's a temporary solution with a stiff penalty in the future.

Nurse hasn't proven anything especially if he wants 5+

 

[Mr Positive]

Nurse hasn't proven anything especially if he wants 5+

Klefbom proved much less and got 4+, with a smaller cap, and that was considered normal across the league.

 

[joestevens29]

Klefbom proved much less and got 4+, with a smaller cap, and that was considered normal across the league.

Really don't care what klef got this is nurse

 

[Aerchon]

Bridge contracts keep players hungry and generally seem to aid in a players development.

I am a Nurse fan but don't agree he has proven he is/will be forever be a top 3/4 defender.

Much like Klefbom the year before Nurse was the beneficiary of playing with a great defensive defensman that allowed him a long leash to play offensive and roam.

Nurses play also declined sharply towards the end of the year and fell off a cliff at the world cup.

While Nurses development has been fairly linear and he is projecting to be a good to great defender it is too soon to sign him long term. Unless he signs cheap and long like 4.5 per for 8 years I don't see the value of signing him long term right now.

If the sides are close maybe sign a one year deal, move Russell, and come back to the table next year both sides more confident and with the space to sign.

Really I personally would rather have Nurse signed than say Risto and he makes 5.5 per.

Give Nurse some PP time on the second unit. See if he can produce a bit there. See if he can continue to develop. See if Klefbom and Sekera can bounce back. See if Jones, Lagesson, or that new guy take a big step forward this year as well...

A much clearer picture next year this time. Assuming everyone for the most part stays healthy.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Klefbom proved much less and got 4+, with a smaller cap, and that was considered normal across the league.

Nurse is also a potential ironman. Klefbom has proved to have one health problem after another and you never know if you ever get him completely healthy. With Nurse if he's in the lineup you know what you got.

 

[joestevens29]

Nurse is also a potential ironman. Klefbom has proved to have one health problem after another and you never know if you ever get him completely healthy. With Nurse if he's in the lineup you know what you got.

So you are confident he can play on the top pairing every night?

 

[nabob]

Nurse doesn’t have any leverage in this negotiation. I think that we’re so used to seeing players signed quickly that we aren’t used to what real negotiations are like for players like Nurse.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Bridge contracts keep players hungry and generally seem to aid in a players development.

I am a Nurse fan but don't agree he has proven he is/will be forever be a top 3/4 defender.

Much like Klefbom the year before Nurse was the beneficiary of playing with a great defensive defensman that allowed him a long leash to play offensive and roam.

Nurses play also declined sharply towards the end of the year and fell off a cliff at the world cup.

While Nurses development has been fairly linear and he is projecting to be a good to great defender it is too soon to sign him long term. Unless he signs cheap and long like 4.5 per for 8 years I don't see the value of signing him long term right now.

If the sides are close maybe sign a one year deal, move Russell, and come back to the table next year both sides more confident and with the space to sign.

Really I personally would rather have Nurse signed than say Risto and he makes 5.5 per.

Give Nurse some PP time on the second unit. See if he can produce a bit there. See if he can continue to develop. See if Klefbom and Sekera can bounce back. See if Jones, Lagesson, or that new guy take a big step forward this year as well...

A much clearer picture next year this time. Assuming everyone for the most part stays healthy.

The player had 26EV pts, was +15 and was our best D on the season of work. The only one healthy for 82GP as well.

My lord why does the bolded even matter. tbh I wouldn't even know what you are referencing as I don't give two spits whatever happens in a consolation world cup. A tournament essentially for NHL loser teams that don't make the playoffs to *compete* in. Its a steaming pile of garbage that is irrelevant. It actually kind of pisses me off when players here have lukewarm seasons and then play great in WC. Good for Darnell knowing where his priorities are and that the hockey WC is a big pile of nothing.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So you are confident he can play on the top pairing every night?

Yes. Absolutely yes. He's the best match for Larsson imo, better than Klefbom there. If its not Larsson though I'm less confident in whoever Darnell is playing WITH.

 

[syz]

The player had 26EV pts, was +15 and was our best D on the season of work. The only one healthy for 82GP as well.

You keep saying this like it's impressive, but it's not. Like, this description screams 4-4.5 million second pairing guy. If he was willing to sign for that I imagine it would've happened by now.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

The player had 26EV pts, was +15 and was our best D on the season of work. The only one healthy for 82GP as well.

If he was our best D 2 seasons ago that would've carried much more weight. Last season we had a hobbled Sekera that came back mid season, Larsson with a bad back and Klefbom playing through injury. He was likely our best D last season but perspective is needed.

 

[shoop]

That they even continue to exist here is overpay. Especially with Caggiulia.

Why not say that from the start and be honest?

Who was a solid 3C option that can play top 6 minutes on wing in an emergency who was available for $3M or less?

Caggiula at $1.5 M isn't an overpay in an actual sense of the word. You don't like the player. I get it. He is worth $1.5M for what he brings. Do find some magic beans that will provide better output at a much lower salary.

 

[joestevens29]

If he was our best D 2 seasons ago that would've carried much more weight. Last season we had a hobbled Sekera that came back mid season, Larsson with a bad back and Klefbom playing through injury. He was likely our best D last season but perspective is needed.

Pretty much. Best dman out of a train wreck of a d corps last year. Big whoop.

 

[Aerchon]

If he was our best D 2 seasons ago that would've carried much more weight. Last season we had a hobbled Sekera that came back mid season, Larsson with a bad back and Klefbom playing through injury. He was likely our best D last season but perspective is needed.

Very good point. Our defense was terrible last year.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Why not say that from the start and be honest?

Who was a solid 3C option that can play top 6 minutes on wing in an emergency who was available for $3M or less?

Caggiula at $1.5 M isn't an overpay in an actual sense of the word. You don't like the player. I get it. He is worth $1.5M for what he brings. Do find some magic beans that will provide better output at a much lower salary.

It's worth noting that IMO at least we got a couple of solid deals on Brodziak and Rieder. IIRC Gravel got Drivesaitl's seal of approval as well which is big since he watches a lot of Kings games. Our issues are the Lucic deal and too much $ tied up in LHD.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Pretty much. Best dman out of a train wreck of a d corps last year. Big whoop.

I mean it's better that he too the step up vs. being bad like they were, but it's easier to shine vs. your peers when they aren't doing very well.

Very good point. Our defense was terrible last year.

It really was. If we bridge Darnell and he continues to be our best D going forward then we start talking about $5 million or more as his AAV long term. I don't see him being a 60 point guy that commands $8 million AAV so IMO a bridge deal is the way to go here.

 

[syz]

Several slight overpays will have a tendency to add up, but I'd put the majority of the problem on Lucic and Russell--particularly the latter, who everybody should have known would have been a mistake as soon as somebody like Nurse achieved even a modicum of a forward step in development. Low and behold we were proven right within like a month.

The trickle down of that Sekera injury really just blew a tire off of this team's cap.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You keep saying this like it's impressive, but it's not. Like, this description screams 4-4.5 million second pairing guy. If he was willing to sign for that I imagine it would've happened by now.

He just turned 23 and was the best D on his team and is only getting better every season. I have no qualms ever saying this is our best D. I think even going forward he will prove to be better than Larsson. He's already better than Klefbom has ever been.

 

[joestevens29]

I mean it's better that he too the step up vs. being bad like they were, but it's easier to shine vs. your peers when they aren't doing very well.



It really was. If we bridge Darnell and he continues to be our best D going forward then we start talking about $5 million or more as his AAV long term. I don't see him being a 60 point guy that commands $8 million AAV so IMO a bridge deal is the way to go here.

And if he does command 8ml then so be it. Don't need yet another guy making 2 mil more than he's worth.

 

[syz]

He's already better than Klefbom has ever been.

You're beyond saving, even for as little of an accomplishment as this would nonetheless hypothetically be.

 

[shoop]

It's worth noting that IMO at least we got a couple of solid deals on Brodziak and Rieder. IIRC Gravel got Drivesaitl's seal of approval as well which is big since he watches a lot of Kings games. Our issues are the Lucic deal and too much $ tied up in LHD.

The Brodziak and Rieder signings are really growing on me. Both filled a need. Good winger and solid 4C. They are also both solid PK guys. An immediate upgrade on our first unit PK has huge benefits throughout the lineup.