Player Discussion Darnell Nurse Contract Discussion 2

[Faelko]

That's what I thought as well but Francouz wasn't eligible for an ELC either. The Avs got him incredibly cheap and it doesn't look like he'll be on the roster. He just wanted to come over to North America I guess.

It sounds like there was a lot of competition for Koskinen which contributed to his salary being so much more.

Interesting, I see conflicting reports but Cap Friendly doesn't have it as ELC so it must not be. Thanks!

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If Nurse wants an AAV of $4 million or more he needs to sign for more than 2 years period.

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

That's what I thought as well but Francouz wasn't eligible for an ELC either. The Avs got him incredibly cheap and it doesn't look like he'll be on the roster. He just wanted to come over to North America I guess.

It sounds like there was a lot of competition for Koskinen which contributed to his salary being so much more.

Competition and I recall someone saying he was making more or less that in the khl. I of course can't find any recent numbers to confirm that (1.3mil usd in 2016 was the closest) but it's believable.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Hoping the Morrison signing expedites things.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I hate shit like this dragging on like this. So I'd play hardball

I'd offer Nurse $3.25M AAV for 2 years and stagger it so it's $3M first year and $3.5M 2nd year to pump us his QO (agents usually battle for this). - That offer would last till the first game of the season and would tell his camp it is unequivocally my best offer.

After that point the offer goes down to $3M AAV for 2 years and the salary stays flat- that offer lasts till Nov 1st. After that point no further negotiations will ensue, advise him is only remaining options are to sign a 1 year deal at his qualifying offer or go play in Europe and if he asks for a trade I'd flatly deny his request and tell him to go play in Europe for a season and we'll touch base after his season there ends.

I'd lay out that whole plan to his agent immediately so it doesn't feel like I'm blindsiding them with anything and let them stew on things. I'm sure he'd take the initial deal almost immediately if you lay it out like that, the only question is whether or not it would create some bad blood, but hopefully Nurse and his agent would have the common sense to see the ultimatum offer is rather fair.


I don't think Nurse will hold out past the first 2 weeks of the season, but he should really be in camp right now if we are to hit the ground running this season.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Hoping the Morrison signing expedites things.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I hate **** like this dragging on like this. So I'd play hardball

I'd offer Nurse $3.25M AAV for 2 years and stagger it so it's $3M first year and $3.5M 2nd year to pump us his QO (agents usually battle for this). - That offer would last till the first game of the season and would tell his camp it is unequivocally my best offer.

After that point the offer goes down to $3M AAV for 2 years and the salary stays flat- that offer lasts till Nov 1st. After that point no further negotiations will ensue, advise him is only remaining options are to sign a 1 year deal at his qualifying offer or go play in Europe and if he asks for a trade I'd flatly deny his request and tell him to go play in Europe for a season and we'll touch base after his season there ends.

I'd lay out that whole plan to his agent immediately so it doesn't feel like I'm blindsiding them with anything and let them stew on things. I'm sure he'd take the initial deal almost immediately if you lay it out like that, the only question is whether or not it would create some bad blood, but hopefully Nurse and his agent would have the common sense to see the ultimatum offer is rather fair.


I don't think Nurse will hold out past the first 2 weeks of the season, but he should really be in camp right now if we are to hit the ground running this season.

I agree and would deal in a similar way. This is what we're willing to give you on a bridge deal 1 or 2 years and then this is your other alternative. These are our bottom line numbers, you can come back as quickly or slowly as you want but the numbers won't change. You hope that there won't be bad blood, but if they are out in left field with their valuation that is on THEM.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Two minutes after the "$4,000,000" tweet, Nielson then put this out there:

Dreger told us he'd be surprised if he gets more than $3,000,000 but I don't see how the Oilers don't end up being willing to eventually go as high as $3,300,000 to $3,400,000.

I'd be happy with Nurse at 3 to 3.4.

 

[AM]

Id offer him $3M for 2 years and $2.5M if he wanst to buy $500k in power play time.

 

[guymez]

Id offer him $3M for 2 years and $2.5M if he wanst to buy $500k in power play time.

Thats an interesting approach...having to purchase PP time.

Sounds a little too similar to the Lowe negotiations with Mike Comrie .

 

[guymez]

Two minutes after the "$4,000,000" tweet, Nielson then put this out there:





I'd be happy with Nurse at 3 to 3.4.

For 2 years...not 1.

 

[guymez]

Tough to argue with Bruce McCurdy on his take with the Nurse situation....

As Josh Morrissey signs for $3.15 million, Darnell Nurse camp values him at more than $4 million per, TSN's Nielson says

My take

1. Nielson is a hilarious and engaging personality on his TSN 1260 radio show but he’s also becoming more of a trusted voice both in terms of his take on players (like Jesse Puljujarvi) and the team in general, and also when it comes to insider information. So if he’s saying this about a “valuation” from the Nurse camp, I put weight on it.
2. Is there a difference in the Nurse camp valuing him at $4 million per and what his camp is asking for? Maybe they’re saying, “We think he’s worth $4 million per but we’re asking for $3.8 million per.” This is a bit confusing, I’ll suggest, but it does give us some idea of where the Nurse camp is at: Nurse being worth $4 million per in their view.
3. I can’t see how $4 million per is reasonable, given Nurse is a restricted free agent. If he wants more he’ll have to hold out, which means opportunity for Caleb Jones, Jakub Jerabek, Kevin Gravel and Evan Bouchard. A hold-out is not ideal for the Oilers but it’s hard to see how it works well for Nurse if he misses a few paycheques. But that’s his business. It’s a free country. I have no problem with him driving a hard bargain. At the same time, I have no problem with the Oilers pushing back.
4. Earlier this summer Brandon Montour, 24, a right-shot d-man of the Anaheim Ducks who put up 32 points in 80 games last year, signed a two-year bridge deal at $3.4 million per year. It’s easy to imagine that Nurse’s camp would argue that Nurse is worth as much as Montour, given that Nurse had more time on ice last year than did Montour, even as Montour outscored Nurse. Nurse had 26 points in 82 games. Montour is a better puck mover but Nurse is more of a physical intimidator.
5. It would be perfectly reasonable for Nurse and the Oilers to settle on a similar deal to the one Montour got in Anaheim. This is the all the more so given Morrisey’s signing today. Perhaps this is where the Oilers and Nurse are headed. If the Oilers are offering $3 million per year on a two-year bridge and if Nurse is asking around $4 million per, perhaps the two sides meet in the middle around $3.4 or $3.5 million. Make sense?
6. There is one other comparable d-man still holding out in Shea Theadore. He had 29 points in 61 games and played 20:21 per game.

 

[McDNicks17]

The only way that tweet makes sense to me is if they value him over $4M on a longterm deal.

Seems odd that he's got multiple sources telling him their "valuation", but not what they're actually asking for.

 

[guymez]

The only way that tweet makes sense to me is if they value him over $4M on a longterm deal.

Seems odd that he's got multiple sources telling him their "valuation", but not what they're actually asking for.

Not odd at all...did you read my earlier post on this?

 

[Cloned]

My feeling is that he signs tomorrow.

 

[McDNicks17]

Not odd at all...did you read my earlier post on this?

There's just no logical reason to value him at a little over $4M on a bridge.

 

[Cloned]

There's just no logical reason to value him at a little over $4M on a bridge.

Agents aren't always logical.

 

[guymez]

There's just no logical reason to value him at a little over $4M on a bridge.

On a 1 year deal it makes perfect sense.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

For 2 years...not 1.

Yes, absolutely. Two year bridge is a must have.

 

[McDNicks17]

On a 1 year deal it makes perfect sense.

For the agent, but it wouldn't be remotely realistic.

 

[guymez]

For the agent, but it wouldn't be remotely realistic.

For the agent and for Nurse moving forward because (if I understand this correctly) it directly affects the QO once Nurse has arb rights.

 

[I am the Liquor]

My feeling is that he signs tomorrow.

Could just be gas.

 

[TheNumber4]

Morrissey signs for 3.15M over 2 years. f*** Nurse if he thinks he's worth that on 1. Ridiculous. If he wants more than 3.5M, Chia better hold out, it'd be the first smart thing he does in a long while.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I don't get what this is saying exactly. If he is valuing himself at that, of course he'd be asking for that, right?

It just seems odd though. Is it possible this is for more than 2 years? I get that 6-8 years at 4 million is too low, but perhaps 3-5 years?

Did Nurse just sign Dustin as his agent?

No way should Nurse get more then Morrissey.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There's just no logical reason to value him at a little over $4M on a bridge.

No, but these things are not always logical.

I do think that team hierarchical pay structure enters the picture to some degree even given RFA/UFA situation etc.

Also, I'm old fashioned. Like some agents, I would take more of a look at how a player was actually used and relied on by a team. So that Nurse last season played more minutes than ANY other Oilers D. He had the most pts of any Oilers D, the most EV pts of any Oilers D, the best +/- of any Oilers D and fared well out on the ice in GA EV or pk. He also looked good, is tough to play against, stand up guy, backs people off, has his team mates back. Nurse brings as many intangibles as Larsson that way (with physicality) and with his strength its possible he will pass Larsson in that regard at some point. So Nurse brings the intangibles. Dustin mentions intimidation. I wouldn't use that word, I would use trepidation. There are times forecheckers bail when they see Nurse ready to take them on.

Nurse also played considerably more minutes than EITHER Montour or Morrissey and so that from the Nurse camp it could be a matter also of not only what Nurse's value is relationally but what it is within the actual Oilers roster. These are different things.

The Oilers to some degree shot themselves in a foot by Nurse over reliance last season considering they were obviously headed into a potential contract impasse. So that the Nurse camp may be legitimately wondering about 4 D on this club getting considerably bigger $ when Nurse was very clearly the Oilers best D and option last season (all games considered and due to others missing appreciable games)

Its unfortunate to the Oilers this is how this all rolled out with injuries to Sekera and Larsson also missing games but to ride Nurse all season and then say "hey, we don't value in that range of our other D" may not be sitting all that well.

just throwing things out there.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Morrissey signs for 3.15M over 2 years. **** Nurse if he thinks he's worth that on 1. Ridiculous. If he wants more than 3.5M, Chia better hold out, it'd be the first smart thing he does in a long while.

I look at our top 4 D to start the season and somehow I'm not inclined to be saying "f*** Nurse".

Its been said often in the thread that the Oilers are in a position of strength due to the RFA. But with Sekera out, with what this top 4 D is without Nurse it isn't really the case. The Oilers should be worried about trying to open the season without Nurse, and the Nurse camp knows that. Due to what our top 4 D is (somewhat weak and no real top pairing) Nurse camp would know this team structures a 1A and 1B pair and that he's on one of those regardless. Even though he's paid less than any of them.

For sure if the Oilers D were better we wouldn't be seeing these numbers (even if the Nurse camp is saying its not due to that I think that's playing word games. They know the situation, they don't want it to seem like they might be taking advantage.

 

[harpoon]

I'd offer Nurse $3.25M AAV for 2 years and stagger it so it's $3M first year and $3.5M 2nd year to pump us his QO (agents usually battle for this). - That offer would last till the first game of the season and would tell his camp it is unequivocally my best offer. After that point the offer goes down to $3M AAV for 2 years and the salary stays flat- that offer lasts till Nov 1st. After that point no further negotiations will ensue, advise him is only remaining options are to sign a 1 year deal at his qualifying offer or go play in Europe and if he asks for a trade I'd flatly deny his request and tell him to go play in Europe for a season and we'll touch base after his season there ends.

My first reaction to that is good grief, you do know our GM is Peter 'bend over' Chiarelli, right? Not a chance he would try something like that. My second reaction is, what do you think that sort of hard nosed/bad faith negotiating would accomplish anyway. Darnell Nurse strikes me as a proud man. In the business world a smart negotiator never insults a proud man the way you have just suggested. And before you say it isn't an insult to pay him $3.25, look at your wording 'unequivocally', 'no further negotiations will ensue', 'only remaining options', 'flatly deny his request' etc etc.

If Peter Chiarelli tries that with Nurse I would bet that Nurse never suits up for the Oilers again. And I wouldn't blame him one bit. Try acting like a fake tough guy because you already spent all your money on lesser players and have no way of offering him the long term deal he deserves? Pffft. f*** you Peter would be the very legit response to that line of 'negotiating'.

I'd lay out that whole plan to his agent immediately so it doesn't feel like I'm blindsiding them with anything and let them stew on things. I'm sure he'd take the initial deal almost immediately if you lay it out like that, the only question is whether or not it would create some bad blood, but hopefully Nurse and his agent would have the common sense to see the ultimatum offer is rather fair.

And I'm equally sure he wouldn't. The deal may be the best Peter can offer ... that doesn't make it fair. And 'laying it out like that' is the best way to ensure that Nurse doesn't sign imo.