Player Discussion Darnell Nurse Contract Discussion 2

[nexttothemoon]

Montour>Nurse>Morrissey>Theodore

All based on their respective zone starts, QoC, RelT GF% and TOI usage so far in their careers.


What we don't know though is the term that the two sides (Oilers and Nurse's agent) are negotiating.

It makes a big difference obviously if it's 1 year vs 2 year vs potentially 3-4 years.

 

[FlameChampion]

according to Rishaug, this is more about money, and less about term because he wouldn't miss camp over "term"

I dunno just seems with the Morrissey contract that his deal is pretty much set. I realize they arent the same type of player but players basically get paid for offense. Their offense is pretty much the same. Nurse did play a bit more due to injuries last year.

2 years at 3.3 mil. Get it done. Lets move on.

 

[tabs]

Team will be out of the playoffs by Halloween with the current top 4.

I’m sure Nurse will love to come back into the locker room at that point, missing out on the money he was holding out for as well as knowing everyone in the room resents the fact that he wasn’t there to help them. His comparable was signed yesterday to what all reports claim is close to what he’s being offered. If he holds out it’s not on Chia, it’s on Nurse.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Team will be out of the playoffs by Halloween with the current top 4.

Nurse isn't a big enough piece to this team at this point to have that much of an impact on the standings especially if our goaltending and special teams bounce back. Trust me, I want him signed, but if there is a certain number that we can't exceed to add Faulk then I stand pat and tell Darnell to either help the team this time around or sit and watch his team battle without him for a bit.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Montour>Nurse>Morrissey>Theodore

All based on their respective zone starts, QoC, RelT GF% and TOI usage so far in their careers.


What we don't know though is the term that the two sides (Oilers and Nurse's agent) are negotiating.

It makes a big difference obviously if it's 1 year vs 2 year vs potentially 3-4 years.

Theodore had better offensive stats last season, I suspect that he gets paid more than Nurse does.

 

[Little Fury]

Nurse isn't a big enough piece to this team at this point to have that much of an impact on the standings especially if our goaltending and special teams bounce back. Trust me, I want him signed, but if there is a certain number that we can't exceed to add Faulk then I stand pat and tell Darnell to either help the team this time around or sit and watch his team battle without him for a bit.

Our D is a giant question mark when he's in the lineup, I'm not sure we have a shot with Russell-Benning as our second pair.

 

[Faelko]

I'm aware and didn't suggest otherwise.

Didn’t you?

 

[nexttothemoon]

Theodore had better offensive stats last season, I suspect that he gets paid more than Nurse does.

Theodore also has had weaker QoC, more ozone starts and has weaker RelT GF% stats in his career so far.

Nurse is the better dman.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Some players are just a PITA to sign. Smyth used to be one of them.

Entirely disagree.

Players are put into this situation without which they would not necessarily become that.

Smyth was driving production for years. Guys like Horc and Hemmer that he was carrying were getting the contracts.

For a full decade Smyth was a premium player on this team watching others get paid more. He finally wanted some, don't blame him for that.

Nurse is in the same boat. Was used as Number 1 D a lot of last season and played like it. In what was a show me year obviously.

Now the Oilers are pretending THIS is the show me year on a bridge deal.


Were Gretz, Coffey, Mess, Anderson all Pita players? Or did they finally get fedup at the team not paying them their commensurate worth?

 

[CupofOil]

Team will be out of the playoffs by Halloween with the current top 4.

And he will be without paychecks until Halloween. Nurse has much less leverage in this situation, he's not of McDavid importance to this team even with Sekera out so he hurts himself more than the team hurts if he sits out.

 

[Little Fury]

Didn’t you?

No.

 

[belair]

Entirely disagree.

Players are put into this situation without which they would not necessarily become that.

Smyth was driving production for years. Guys like Horc and Hemmer that he was carrying were getting the contracts.

For a full decade Smyth was a premium player on this team watching others get paid more. He finally wanted some, don't blame him for that.

Nurse is in the same boat. Was used as Number 1 D a lot of last season and played like it. In what was a show me year obviously.

Now the Oilers are pretending THIS is the show me year on a bridge deal.


Were Gretz, Coffey, Mess, Anderson all Pita players? Or did they finally get fedup at the team not paying them their commensurate worth?

Smyth driving Hemsky's production? That's funny.

 

[McDNicks17]

And he will be without paychecks until Halloween. Nurse has much less leverage in this situation, he's not of McDavid importance to this team even with Sekera out so he hurts himself more than the team hurts if he sits out.

If he holds out and manages to get $500k or whatever more, that would more than cover the lost paychecks from one month.

The Oilers don't have a ton of leverage.

He could even go over to Europe or Russia and make some money in the meantime.

 

[nexttothemoon]

When Nurse was on the ice last season his relative stats were:

+.22 GF/60 and -.73 GA/60 in comparison to his teammates.

They will definitely miss that level of play when he's out of the lineup.

Now the question is of course can he repeat those numbers... but even if he comes close... those are #1D type numbers at ES... especially when playing tough QoC and getting a slight dzone push in his zone starts.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Smyth driving Hemsky's production? That's funny.

It would be to someone bereft of the understanding of who was actually scoring the goals and who was doing that regardless of Hemsky.

I respect players that go to the danger areas and hang around all day and sacrifice their bodies to get those scoring chances every game and produce. Hemsky was mostly a peripheral player that was much more subject to checking. In his better years and games he went to the net more but it was rarely his comfort area.

Smyth was a better player than Hemsky in almost any way I can think of. With Smyth scoring 418NHL goals and Hemsky only 180 in similar seasons played.

But you think Hemmer was the driver of goals. Keeping in mind Smyth never needed pretty passes to score goals. All he needed was pucks directed at net. Wouldn't have mattered who was doing it.

 

[CupofOil]

If he holds out and manages to get $500k or whatever more, that would more than cover the lost paychecks from one month.

The Oilers don't have a ton of leverage.

He could even go over to Europe or Russia and make some money in the meantime.

The Oilers have all the leverage. He's an RFA without arbitration rights and this isn't McDavid we're talking about and this isn't a Draisaitl situation with a player that put up dominant regular season and playoff numbers. It'll be tough but the team can scape by without him for a while as long as McDavid is healthy and the goalies don't tank.

He's not going to get 500K more than Morrissey for instance, just about all these situations ends up with the player caving to management and that will happen again, it's just a matter of when even if the management in this case are poor negotiators.

 

[McDNicks17]

The Oilers have all the leverage. He's an RFA without arbitration rights and this isn't McDavid we're talking about. It'll be tough but the team can scape by without him for a while as long as McDavid is healthy and the goalies don't tank.

He's not going to get 500K more than Morrissey for instance, just about all these situations ends up with the player caving to management and that will happen again, it's just a matter of when.

If the Oilers start losing without him, a whole lot of leverage is going to swing his way.

He could get $500k more than what the Oilers are offering. All depends on how long his agent wants to play chicken.

 

[Gord]

according to Rishaug, this is more about money, and less about term because he wouldn't miss camp over "term"

If it being about money is true, I'm thinking he'd have never considered a long term deal with the oilers then, such as the one hanifin signed.
it seems he might expect to hit a higher level of play and then get a much larger contract starting with a 6 or 7.

I'm still shocked that he may be thinking he deserves a 1 or 2 year anywhere close to 4M

 

[AM]

Entirely disagree.

Players are put into this situation without which they would not necessarily become that.

Smyth was driving production for years. Guys like Horc and Hemmer that he was carrying were getting the contracts.

For a full decade Smyth was a premium player on this team watching others get paid more. He finally wanted some, don't blame him for that.

Nurse is in the same boat. Was used as Number 1 D a lot of last season and played like it. In what was a show me year obviously.

Now the Oilers are pretending THIS is the show me year on a bridge deal.


Were Gretz, Coffey, Mess, Anderson all Pita players? Or did they finally get fedup at the team not paying them their commensurate worth?

Pride comes before the fall.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Pride comes before the fall.

This is a wee tad too philosophical for the context.

 

[Jamin]

Trade Nurse with a plus for a better dman?

 

[Draiskull]

I'm aware and didn't suggest otherwise.

yes you did.. how can arbitrator award Nurse a one yr 5M contract?
Nurse will get less than 3M on a 1 yr deal based on other comparables. Like I said he has no leverage.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

My first reaction to that is good grief, you do know our GM is Peter 'bend over' Chiarelli, right? Not a chance he would try something like that. My second reaction is, what do you think that sort of hard nosed/bad faith negotiating would accomplish anyway. Darnell Nurse strikes me as a proud man. In the business world a smart negotiator never insults a proud man the way you have just suggested. And before you say it isn't an insult to pay him $3.25, look at your wording 'unequivocally', 'no further negotiations will ensue', 'only remaining options', 'flatly deny his request' etc etc.

If Peter Chiarelli tries that with Nurse I would bet that Nurse never suits up for the Oilers again. And I wouldn't blame him one bit. Try acting like a fake tough guy because you already spent all your money on lesser players and have no way of offering him the long term deal he deserves? Pffft. **** you Peter would be the very legit response to that line of 'negotiating'.
And I'm equally sure he wouldn't. The deal may be the best Peter can offer ... that doesn't make it fair. And 'laying it out like that' is the best way to ensure that Nurse doesn't sign imo.

You think Nurse is worth more than Morrissey?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

His leverage is the Oilers D is a gongshow even when he's in the lineup and a tire fire without him.

I expect he'd get $5M easy from an arbitrator.

So you are saying that the Oilers defense is so horrid with or without him that the Oilers are guaranteed to miss the playoffs.

So what's the difference if they sign him or not? If your evaluations are to be believed it just means that the Oil will get a better draft pick if they don't sign him

So you are saying let him sit. Sounds good to me.

 

[Little Fury]

yes you did.. how can arbitrator award Nurse a one yr 5M contract?
Nurse will get less than 3M on a 1 yr deal based on other comparables. Like I said he has no leverage.

He's arb eligible next year, so obviously I'm thinking about his next deal.