Player Discussion Danton Heinen VII

[GloryDaze4877]

**** putting Heinen on the first line at Pastrnaks expense.

Nobody is suggesting that Heinen is in Pasta’s league talent-wise.

There is this thing called balanced scoring. The B’s haven’t had it this year and it hurt them last year vs the Blues when the 1st line went dry.

The reason people want to drop Pasta down is not because of lack of talent or production. It’s the opposite. They want him to jumpstart the 2nd line and get 74/46 going.

The 63-37-43 combo produced over a 16 game stretch (20% of a season) at an excellent clip and their D was outstanding. They don’t need Pasta to score, let him help Krejci and DeBrusk.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

See, the issue with giving Pasta to DK is that they don't play well together and have very little chemistry. So I disagree completely with your view. I'd rather have one great line than 4 ****ty ones that don't produce and try to fill the 2nd line RW with a deadline move instead.

Cassidy never leaves Pasta with Krejci and DeBrusk long enough to see if they have any chemistry.

 

[Montecristo]

Cassidy never leaves Pasta with Krejci and DeBrusk long enough to see if they have any chemistry.

Eh, how long did it take before we knew coyle and Johansson had chemistry? 1 period?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Eh, how long did it take before we knew coyle and Johansson had chemistry? 1 period?

Krejci and Pasta literally got off a plane, went to the rink and played on the same line and fu**ing lit it up in their first game together for the CZE team at the Worlds.

Bigger ice? Sure, but I don’t buy it’s the only reason.

I may be the only one, but I don’t particularly like the way the 1st line has been playing together of late. When Pasta is there they pass too much and do a lot of cross ice stuff that gets turned over.

Put 88 with DK for a bit at ES and reunite the 63-37-88 combo on the PP.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Krejci and Pasta literally got off a plane, went to the rink and played on the same line and fu**ing lit it up in their first game together for the CZE team at the Worlds.

Bigger ice? Sure, but I don’t buy it’s the only reason.

I may be the only one, but I don’t particularly like the way the 1st line has been playing together of late. When Pasta is there they pass too much and do a lot of cross ice stuff that gets turned over.

Put 88 with DK for a bit at ES and reunite the 63-37-88 combo on the PP.

Yep they lit up the Russian team. Maybe 4 points each

 

[GoBs]

I am convinced after all these years and right wings there is no one out there to play on Krejci right side. At this point move Coyle up and play him with Debrusk and try Heinen on the right side

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Not directed at you.....but the linked article is exactly what I hate about today's game.

It used to be that you'd watch a guy play and decide whether or not you liked their game.

Today, a guy joins a team, 100 games into his career people look at his "stats" (the 34 dozen that are available now) and those stats tell you that have to like him or not based on the current thinking.

There is a huge difference between a player being effective and you “liking the way they play”.

You are on record many times for saying you hate the way that Heinen plays the game (and Loui before him I believe). You can dislike a player all you want, but it has zero correlation to how good they actually are.

I despise Sid Crosby and hate him as a player. That doesn’t mean he’s not really, really good.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I'd say it goes down a lot. I personally think that DK and Pasta are not a good combo because DK likes the slower tempo, cycle game and Pasta likes up tempo and open ice skating. But again, why is it always the team needing to get DK going by weakening another line? When does DK as the highest paid member of the team ever step up and elevate his game to make someone else better? I'm just so tired of this silly argument. He's paid as a top player, yet he always needs people to get him going. I'd bet that you could put Marchand or Bergeron on the 3rd line and they'd make the players around them better. If you did that with DK all we'd get is his fanbois crying how the team was screwing DK over again. At what point does it become more about DK than whom he plays with?

You keep saying the team "needs to get DK going." That's completely fallacious. Yet you keep rolling it out as gospel.

As for production going down a lot when replacing Pasta with Heinen, as I've said, history does not back up that assertion. You may THINK that, but facts don't bear that out.

At what point with you does it become less about DK and this fantasy that he needs help getting going, and more about the significant talent gap between the players he's been asked to play with and the guys on the first line?

 

[Glove Malfunction]

63-37-88
74-46-43
10-13-86
4th

You’re welcome Bruce give me 100k

I will never, ever see that without thinking of this:

 

[Montecristo]

I personally don’t hate heinens game. I think he’s a perfectly adaquate middle 6 forward. He’s not a building block or an untouchable piece by any means but he’s a fine player for his salary and is a good fit on the team as a 3rd line winger. I don’t think he’s a long term top 6 forward but can handle himself in stints there. Heinen to me is like what Brock holt is to the Red Sox.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

You keep saying the team "needs to get DK going." That's completely fallacious. Yet you keep rolling it out as gospel.

As for production going down a lot when replacing Pasta with Heinen, as I've said, history does not back up that assertion. You may THINK that, but facts don't bear that out.

At what point with you does it become less about DK and this fantasy that he needs help getting going, and more about the significant talent gap between the players he's been asked to play with and the guys on the first line?

Last year Pasta was out for 16 games and Heinen had 13 pts in his place (while both Marchand and Bergeron lit it up).

We have no idea what Krejci and Pasta would have been able to do together because obviously Pasta was injured. Would love to see teams have to defend:

63-37-43
74-46-88

And see what the results would be.

 

[LSCII]

You keep saying the team "needs to get DK going." That's completely fallacious. Yet you keep rolling it out as gospel.

As for production going down a lot when replacing Pasta with Heinen, as I've said, history does not back up that assertion. You may THINK that, but facts don't bear that out.

At what point with you does it become less about DK and this fantasy that he needs help getting going, and more about the significant talent gap between the players he's been asked to play with and the guys on the first line?

So his 1 assist and 6 sog in 5 games is acceptable? If you say so...

 

[Glove Malfunction]

So his 1 assist and 6 sog in 5 games is acceptable? If you say so...

Completely different argument. Besides the fact you're ignoring that he was just coming back from injury and got almost no training camp time. None of that has to do with your bogus assertion that he needs help to get going.

 

[sarge88]

There is a huge difference between a player being effective and you “liking the way they play”.

You are on record many times for saying you hate the way that Heinen plays the game (and Loui before him I believe). You can dislike a player all you want, but it has zero correlation to how good they actually are.

I despise Sid Crosby and hate him as a player. That doesn’t mean he’s not really, really good.

First, you’re intimating that I said he’s not effective at all. I didn’t say that.

The overarching point is that I feel that a lot of people put too much emphasis/credibility in what these ancillary statistics indicate, which to me takes a lot of enjoyment out of following the game. The second most important point is that a lot of these advanced stats are still somewhat new.

I’ll contend that if this were 1987, Heinen, given his production level wouldn’t last 2 years in the NHL.

I’m sure you’ll reply that that shows that the new stats are a good thing.

I’d say it’s not because those aren’t the type of player that I enjoy watching.

Lastly, my issue with Heinen isn’t as much about his stats, it’s about he, as a player, being a microcosm of what I feel the league as an entity has turned into:

Vanilla, passionless, uninspired/uninspiring, perfunctory, antiseptic and driven by stats that are, IMO, flawed.

Now the harping on his advanced stats plays a role in my dislike of him, as it becomes annoying to read day in and day out that his lack of goals, assists and points is unimportant because of the secondary stats.

But in the end, after watching a guy play 20 or 30 games, I’m sure, not unlike most here, I realize that I like the way he plays or I don’t.

How he’s perceived by the stat-happy crowd isn’t going to change how I feel.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I can't stand people who criticize any players passion. To be blunt, who the f*** are you to question that? How the f*** do you know if a player has passion for the game?

To say a player is passionless is just f***ing stupid. Why?? Because he doesn't drag his knuckles and throw hands? What makes a player passionate?

Using passion in adjective form to desrcibe a player's game is stupid. It's f***ing stupid.

 

[Alicat]

You jumped all over Ritchie before the first exhibition game was even played, how is that any different?

Hell of a lot different than Danton Heinen.

In case you were living under a rock last season, he was the whipping boy du jour. He got it worse than Brett Ritchie when he was being more than productive but it wasn't showing up on the stat sheet.

My comment goes back to that.

It was a nice try but you failed.

 

[sarge88]

I can't stand people who criticize any players passion. To be blunt, who the **** are you to question that? How the **** do you know if a player has passion for the game?

To say a player is passionless is just ****ing stupid. Why?? Because he doesn't drag his knuckles and throw hands? What makes a player passionate?

Using passion in adjective form to desrcibe a player's game is stupid. It's ****ing stupid.

Do you see the same level of passion in Heinen and Marchand?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Do you see the same level of passion in Heinen and Marchand?

You can't see passion.

 

[sarge88]

You can't see passion.

OK..I’ll admit to a poor choice of words and substitute intensity.

Can you tell the difference between a player who is very intense vs, one who isn’t?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

OK..I’ll admit to a poor choice of words and substitute intensity.

Can you tell the difference between a player who is very intense vs, one who isn’t?

Nope. Seems like the same situation. How can you say a player is more intense than another. What is your measurement?

It all goes back to the style of play you like which is what you're equating intensity to.

 

[sarge88]

Nope. Seems like the same situation. How can you say a player is more intense than another. What is your measurement?

It all goes back to the style of play you like which is what you're equating intensity to.

Therein lies the rub.

Watching the game in an antiseptic/stat driven way as opposed to watching the game and enjoying things like intensity, emotion.

Milan Lucic plays with intensity, Chara too.

There are non-tough guys like Bergeron who do as well.

I can’t say the same for every player in the league.

If intensity exists, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t exist equally among all players.

Logic dictates that some players are more or less intense than others.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Therein lies the rub.

Watching the game in an antiseptic/stat driven way as opposed to watching the game and enjoying things like intensity, emotion.

Milan Lucic plays with intensity, Chara too.

There are non-tough guys like Bergeron who do as well.

I can’t say the same for every player in the league.

If intensity exists, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t exist equally among all players.

Logic dictates that some players are more or less intense than others.

It’s impossible to judge intensity. It’s impossible to judge passion. All you are talking about is how physically demonstrative a player is, which literally counts for nothing.

I’m not sure what you are seeing when you watch Heinen play, but it’s not what I see. I suspect that your view is clouded by your dislike for the player?

You see a vanilla, antiseptic, emotionless player.

I see a player who is relentless with his puck pursuit, is an excellent passer and rarely makes the wrong play with a puck. I see an unheralded player that didn’t play major junior and had to prove himself at every level. If you cannot comprehend on your own what kind of drive it takes for a kid like that to make it to the NHL, I don’t think I can explain it to you.

Advanced stats didn’t get him a D1 scholarship, they didn’t get him a pro deal, and they didn’t get him a spot on the Bruins.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

OK..I’ll admit to a poor choice of words and substitute intensity.

Can you tell the difference between a player who is very intense vs, one who isn’t?

Sure, you can see it in the way they smirk.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Therein lies the rub.

Watching the game in an antiseptic/stat driven way as opposed to watching the game and enjoying things like intensity, emotion.

Milan Lucic plays with intensity, Chara too.

There are non-tough guys like Bergeron who do as well.

I can’t say the same for every player in the league.

If intensity exists, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t exist equally among all players.

Logic dictates that some players are more or less intense than others.

Fun fact, Heinen had more hits last year than DeBrusk...

54 vs 45

And only 2 fewer PIM 16 v 18

 

[sarge88]

It’s impossible to judge intensity. It’s impossible to judge passion. All you are talking about is how physically demonstrative a player is, which literally counts for nothing.

I’m not sure what you are seeing when you watch Heinen play, but it’s not what I see. I suspect that your view is clouded by your dislike for the player?

You see a vanilla, antiseptic, emotionless player.

I see a player who is relentless with his puck pursuit, is an excellent passer and rarely makes the wrong play with a puck. I see an unheralded player that didn’t play major junior and had to prove himself at every level. If you cannot comprehend on your own what kind of drive it takes for a kid like that to make it to the NHL, I don’t think I can explain it to you.

Advanced stats didn’t get him a D1 scholarship, they didn’t get him a pro deal, and they didn’t get him a spot on the Bruins.

I see a kid who has talent but doesn’t do enough with it.

I see a guy who I always feel could do or give more.

Who should produce more.

Who gets a free pass by many for his lack of production because of stats that are relatively meaningless.

If you want to argue that passion or intensity don’t exist, then we can stop at that.

But if they exist, you can’t argue that every player has it in equal measure.

And if you agree that it isn’t possible for everyone to have it equally, I’ll argue to the end that if he played with more passion, drive, intensity or whatever you choose to call it, he’d be a better and more productive player.