Confirmed with Link: Dane Fox traded to Canes for future considerations
- Thread starter windflare
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I never said Benning did not have a say, they own the team. But Jim Benning can not be in Vancouver and Utica at the same time. They need to rely on the people they have hired in Utica for their input and evaluation... Stewart was a poorly conceived idea, and thankfully did not last long. I do however believe that the canucks insisted that Cassels played even though he was completely useless the first 3 months of the season. Look how much cassels, subban, Labate and Sautner have improved.. If Stewart had shown any improvement he would still be here....
Not surprising, Carolina obviously saw something in him.
He leads all players with 3 shots after the first period.
It's one period, and Carolina is weak at forwards at all levels of their system....
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
First game as well - you expect a player to be 'going all out'. The key is whether this is sustainable.
This has nothing to do with Gillis. It has to do with which players at this point in time Vancouver (the Benning management team now) deems more likely to make the Canucks in the future . Example. Cassels is a first year pro with a great final Jr. year behind him. Fox is a third year pro and has yet to make an impact. Thus, Cassels is considered a better prospect to invest in at this time. Fox's ceiling was considered maybe AHL. Cassels is still maybe NHL. So Cassels was selected over Fox, LaBate was selected over Blomstrand who had shown little ability to handle the physicality of the pro game in his first two seasons. Subban and Sautner were selected ahead of McEneny and Cederholm at this stage of their development. It's the way it worked out. If you went on experience it would have been reversed and Subban, Sautner, Cassels, and LaBate would be in the Zoo and third year pros would have been making their debut in the AHL on the final year of their ELC. The decision was made to give the younger prospects the road ahead while the door closed on the third year guys who never made an impression.
Points put up by players in the ECHL are rarely repeated in the AHL. You can check out all the stats on this over the years. Currently the Comets have Hanson on a PTO. He was last year's ECHL playoffs MVP. They also have Marino who has been a league scoring champ. Neither appears to be on the verge a scoring binge here and the same occurs throughout the AHL with ECHL PTOs signed in times of need. As an individual who has worked in both leagues told me, There are guys whose games top out at the ECHL level (Guimond, Hanson, Fox) but don't carry over to the AHL and the same can be said about AHL stars (Cal O'Reilly, TJ Brennan, Dustin Jeffrey, Joe Whitney) who can't take it to the next level. Fox, Blomstrand, Valk, and further big proof Mallet who recorded 1G and 4A for 5 points in 59 games with the Comets in 2013-14 and is a top scorer with Kalamazoo 18G (now 2nd on the team to Blomstrand since Fox left with 29A for 47pts). This is the stance Benning just took on both Shinkaruk and Fox.
This year's task for Green was to give the prospects the lead roles and he did. No star AHL vets were acquired to make the team a contender. The vets brought in were to hold down the secondary roles and help the kids develop. All of this took place. the surprise was Green molded this group of mid range vets and Vancouver prospects into a solid team that is now in a good position to make the playoffs when most felt at the season's start that was an unlikely possibility. The trade of Shinkaruk, Gaunce's call-up, and a couple injuries are challenging that likelihood.
Contrary to another recent post Green didn't give Cassels miles of rope while he played like crap. He was put on the wing and scratched game after game. He was recovering from an injury at the end of his Jr. season. He was getting daily workouts with the team. He was getting rehab from the training staff. He was getting strength training.
As he did with Shinkaruk the season before Green publicly stated that the kid was recovering from injury and fatigue and would have to be handled with patience. It would be mid-season before we started to see what Cassels had to offer. He handled him just that way. The frequent scratches became more infrequent and he moved back to center on the third line. He was inserted as a second line and once in a while 1st line center. He is currently playing very well. NHL ready? Not even close. He's heading up a third line with LaBate (another growing into his role rookie) and a revolving 3rd wing. They are learning to be extremely responsible defensively, how to fore check effectively, and create offense. They are succeeding in all three areas. Their ceiling is untapped at this point.
In short, the two management teams work together, but Green does not have final say over which Vancouver prospects he keeps on the Utica roster. If you think AHL coaches will quit if the parent club insists certain guys make the roster and get ice time, you'd be living in your own universe. They have aspirations to get to the NHL as well and the first way to get yourself outed would be to buck the upper management. GMs do communicate. Ask Ted Nolan how that works and he was only bucking the system at the NHL level.
If a NHL job is offered I can see Green leaving. But I can not see Green taking a Ahl job , he has already established himself in the canucks organization, why start over in someone else's team? If anything Green is next in line for the canucks rebuild when it starts.....
Eddy Punch Clock
Jack Adams 2028
Which is why Linden should have just shut the hell up regarding Willie being back next season. Green probably wasn't too thrilled with the news.
rune74
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- Oct 10, 2008
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The so called hockey know-it-alls in the media in both the US and Canada (many of whom are the same) all predict there will be at least a half dozen head coaching jobs open in the NHL between the end of this season and the draft. If Green gets an NHL offer, and at the moment I think that may be a long shot even though I wish the best for him, he goes.
I fear taking the job in Vancouver after one more season would be a set up for failure. If Benning keeps stocking the cupboard with bottom 6 guys, other teams castoffs, extends long terms to guys who are not top echelon players, and signs UFAs that won't really be major point getters, the team will do just well enough to stay out of the top few draft picks and be a bubble playoff team. The result will be a team that can't move any further ahead and if the same core is in charge Green just becomes another fall guy for their buffonery. WD will get next season so they have their first fall guy and then they'll set up the next guy with similar players and he'll get the axe as well until ownership figures out where the real fault is. If they haven't figured it out already, it probably will take that long.
Look, the Canucks will have some good young talent, but it won't be enough to get over the hump any more than all of Edmonton's top picks were able to overcome the idiocy of their management. So Green taking the head job there with so little real world experience (3 or 4 yrs in the AHL and having never won the big one there) and getting fired a couple years into his first NHL job would set back his chances for another head position in the NHL for years since he won't have enough resume to warrant another team taking a chance. He is going to have to really weigh out and plan his future very strategically in order to stay on the upswing. Coaching under Benning and Linden wouldn't the wisest of choices, but it would be hard for any aspiring coach to turn it down without another iron in the fire.
mathonwy
Positively #toxic
- Jan 21, 2008
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Good analysis.
If Green is the competent coach that you guys say he is, he would be best served staying the **** away from the Canucks crapshow.
I am once again feeling those feelings of embarrassment about my team.
I can't either. I think he will be an NHL coach next year. To clarify, if not offered an NHL job, I think he will be back in Utica. I just hope he isn't in Vancouver, it may not ruin his head coaching career but it will certainly derail it.
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Pip
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rune74
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And there you have it, we lost a superstar
What I think happened, sort of what Bad Goalie was saying, is that they didn't see a future with him making the canucks so even if he could potentially do something in the AHL they would rather spend the time on players that they project in their future. The whole time Fox has been with the organization he has played in the E and has not been used in the AHL. I think it's fair to say he is a long shot for an NHL team. Why waste time developing him?
It could also have been a sweetner to get the other player that came to Utica.
Long story short he didn't ever have a chance of making the canucks top two lines so he wzas expendable.
Pip
Registered User
He is and was a longshot but there was absolutely room for him. Fox would not have been taking time away from better prospects. Half of the year we have been playing with ECHL players on PTOs ffs
rune74
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You think he would be playing top t o lines in AHL on the team next year? Is that what we want for our AHL team? Or should they be using those lines for better players?
Pip
Registered User
Better players? I'm just asking that when we go into the ECHL looking for callups that we maybe consider the young player lighting it up on our affiliate before going after some 30 something year old. You'd maybe have an argument if you're talking about a top tier AHL veteran.
Fox is the kind of guy that can play all over the lineup. He's not a top 6 or bust guy. He's certainly a lot better than some of the trash we've signed and played in the AHL, like Stewart. I don't care if they THINK he has no NHL future. Good AHL players are also important, especially if they develop into guys who can sub in when injuries hit and not look out of place. I mean, Friesen likely has no (meaningful) NHL future but he's still a good pick & a good asset because he's able to come up and not suck in his role.
And of course the downside here could be that they gave up a Burrows or Peverley level of player without doing their best to actually find out.
Hit the post
I have your gold medal Zippy!
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