Waived: Dan Cleary (cleared, assigned to GR - changes mind, going to GR)

[The Zermanator]

Is it possible that Cleary is actually a legitimate moron? I never thought about it before, but it's possible that the reason this saga has played out the way it has is because the organization recognizes that Cleary is unfit for a front office job. I suppose time will tell.

The whole point of everything surrounding this sport is ultimately the on-ice product. The front-office may be the straw that stirs the drink, but with no drink there is no straw.

Why would they sacrifice their on-ice product to spare their front-office? Assuming Cleary is 'dumb' (no supporting evidence), and that Cleary is no longer an effective NHL player, which Cleary could hurt the org more? One of only 23 people who contribute on the ice? Or buried in a front-office with at least dozens of employees?

 

[Outl4w]

This has been five years too long, but finally .. I f only Babcock can convince the LEAFS to claim him.

 

[Hckytwn]

Why can't it be that Holland isn't going to tell the media either way? Seems like either situation is acceptable, that the decision will be made in-house and as far as the media is concerned it doesn't matter since it has no cap or NHL roster implications.

Possibly, but I guess I read it like this:

Saying 'yes' opens Holland up to criticism of shenanigans like we're seeing in this very thread--so why would he come out and confirm it? However, saying 'no' is actually largely beneficial to him and the Wings (e.g. you don't want players/agents thinking this is an option that can be used in the future). So, I think he'd only say "none of your business" if it was in reality a "yes".

Couple that with the fact that this whole thing only make sense if Cleary was getting paid in the end. (As pointed out above, he would have to a complete and utter fool to go through this otherwise.)

Yes, to your point, I'm only guessing--but I think him getting paid is the more likely answer.

 

[sarcastro]

Don't like Cleary.

Glad he's gone.

Don't care if this hurts anyone's fee fees.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Possibly, but I guess I read it like this:

Saying 'yes' opens Holland up to criticism of shenanigans like we're seeing in this very thread--so why would he come out and confirm it? However, saying 'no' is actually largely beneficial to him and the Wings (e.g. you don't want players/agents thinking this is an option that can be used in the future). So, I think he'd only say "none of your business" if it was in reality a "yes".

Couple that with the fact that this whole thing only make sense if Cleary was getting paid in the end. (As pointed out above, he would have to a complete and utter fool to go through this otherwise.)

Yes, to your point, I'm only guessing--but I think him getting paid is the more likely answer.

Why does it matter so much to people what Illitch chooses to do with his money? Why would anyone possibly care? Why does it infuriate people so badly that Cleary may or may not be compensated for his loyalty and sacrifice to the team? It is just stupid. Hate for the sake of being hateful. Jealousy. Pettiness. Classless, Nonsense.

Yzerman overstayed his effectiveness and then skipped town to go work against the organization. People love him.

Cleary bleeds redwing and people act like hateful little children?

 

[HockeyinHD]

Meh, if this was the first time it happened - no one would care. But it's the third time this ******** has gone on.

Third? It's happened two or three times as often, just in the past 10 years.

It's just that the stray voltage that surrounds Cleary is so much more painful because specific people hate him much more than other players.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Third? It's happened two or three times as often, just in the past 10 years.

It's just that the stray voltage that surrounds Cleary is so much more painful because specific people hate him much more than other players.

Or maybe it's the fact that the Wings prospect pool was complete garbage when those other players were getting retirement deals. Or maybe it's the fact that those previous players were far more useful players during their last few years playing in the league.

Dan Cleary has been given a lot more opportunities than the players that came before him, and those players had done a lot more for the Wings than Dan Cleary ever did.

Who the hell pays a player even if he doesn't report? It's embarrassing.

Suspend him, and tell him to stop acting like a child. Of course that would require Holland to ask Dr.Rahmani to refer him to a spinal specialist.

If you keep treating someone like they are special, they might just start thinking they are.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Why does it matter so much to people what Illitch chooses to do with his money? Why would anyone possibly care? Why does it infuriate people so badly that Cleary may or may not be compensated for his loyalty and sacrifice to the team? It is just stupid. Hate for the sake of being hateful. Jealousy. Pettiness. Classless, Nonsense.

Yzerman overstayed his effectiveness and then skipped town to go work against the organization. People love him.

Cleary bleeds redwing and people act like hateful little children?

Skipped town, do you mean declining a job offer in Minnesota, then having a one on two sit down with Mike and Marion Ilitch asking permission to go.... I mean you do realize Yzerman is like a son to Ilitch... That isn't how that played out at all. He left and we were okay with it, not only that he went above and beyond with his superiors and ownership to clear his wonderful job opportunity in Tampa. Come on...

Agree people are too hard on Cleary, but ridiculous stretching of the truth on the Yzerman situation.

 

[PuckDynasty]

Well, Homer got a 3 year 6.75 mil deal at age 34 and then got a 2 year 3.75 deal at age 37.

Draper got a 3 year deal as a 36 year old that paid out 5.75.

Maltby, by far the least of these names, got one year deals his last 3 years through age 38 that paid him 2.65.

If you want to pretend there's some amazing gap between those signings and what's gone on with Cleary... well, knock yourself out I suppose. I certainly don't see one.

Edit: Just to be clear, you do comprehend the difference between 'any Wing in general' and 'guys whose professional identity was made in Detroit and who were there 10+ seasons', yes? Lots of former Wings who fit the former category but not the latter were let go with far less fanfare and dollar signs.

And, newsflash, it's going to work out that way with whomever the next crop of Wings 'lifers' are, too.

All the players you mention were at least marginally effective and were playing regularly, even in their final years as Red Wings. Though all graciously retired without making a fuss, all seemed to still want to play but were not retained for on ice roles. The other difference in the situation is that at that those other players retired, there wasn't a plethora of young talent waiting in the Wings.

This whole situation is completely embarrassing to all involved.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Was Lidstrom shopping at Dollar General his last year in town? No. He was making the full 6.2 and was totally not worth it.

In what universe was even an aging Lidstrom not worth 6.2?

 

[Mickey Redmond*]

Cleary clearly acting like a diva here. He isn't good enough to be in the NHL anymore, he hasn't been good enough for like 3 or 4 years now. Either accept your AHL demotion or retire.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Why does it matter so much to people what Illitch chooses to do with his money? Why would anyone possibly care? Why does it infuriate people so badly that Cleary may or may not be compensated for his loyalty and sacrifice to the team? It is just stupid. Hate for the sake of being hateful. Jealousy. Pettiness. Classless, Nonsense.

Yzerman overstayed his effectiveness and then skipped town to go work against the organization. People love him.

Cleary bleeds redwing and people act like hateful little children?

Another hot take there.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Is it possible that Cleary is actually a legitimate moron? I never thought about it before, but it's possible that the reason this saga has played out the way it has is because the organization recognizes that Cleary is unfit for a front office job. I suppose time will tell.

Just give him a little seat in the corner of the locker room. If he is such a great vet presence right now, just imagine in 20 years... vet presence lvl 1000000

 

[joe89]

Seems kinda childish if he doesn't report and doesn't retire either, but I'm really struggling to care. If he doesn't wanna play the kids are better off not having him around. Which is kinda ironic because that's why he was around for so many extra years.

 

[sarcastro]

Seems kinda childish if he doesn't report and doesn't retire either, but I'm really struggling to care. If he doesn't wanna play the kids are better off not having him around. Which is kinda ironic because that's why he was around for so many extra years.

I think a lot of this is showmanship on the part of Holland and Cleary. Holland surely knew that he was never going to beat out players for a roster spot,and Cleary deep down must have known it whether he admitted it to himself or not.

I believe this was always going to be a case of "here's an extra mil, it's not quite what I promised you years ago but it's the best I can do. Take the money, take the year off, and we'll have a front office job ready for you next fall."

The charade may have been necessary to avoid any possible CBA grievances the league might have thought of pursuing if they just openly gave him his golden parachute without the song and dance about trying to make the team.

 

[HockeyinHD]

All the players you mention were at least marginally effective and were playing regularly, even in their final years as Red Wings.

Oh, come on. So if Cleary would have been playing regularly the last two years and stinking like Draper and Maltby did you'd have been fine with the contract? Get out of here with that. Maltby's last five years were pretty bad. He went from 24, 37, 33 in points to 11, 11, 10, 11, 6. He was a -34 his last 5 seasons.

Maltby was a dumpster fire and got two or three extra years worth of contracts for the same reason Cleary did.

Draper fell off the table his last three years, too. Went from 15:38 a night in 08 to 12, then 11.5, then 10.5 his last three. Was -14 his last three years.

Cleary's last two years were awful, too. His third from last was bad as well. Let's try and accurately remember how much that was true for Drapes and Maltby, also.

Though all graciously retired without making a fuss,

Cleary's made a fuss? Look, Holland played the same notes with Draper and Maltby on their way out the door too. Wouldn't guarantee them a roster spot, would offer them a one-way but they'd have to serve it out in GR... or, you know, nudge-nudge wink-wink.

all seemed to still want to play but were not retained for on ice roles. The other difference in the situation is that at that those other players retired, there wasn't a plethora of young talent waiting in the Wings.

How good the talent was has never once stopped anyone from complaining about the players who were keeping the talent from playing in the Detroit.

That said, and this is straining my memory a bit, but weren't Draper and Maltby's retention blamed at the time for Dick Axelsson not making the roster and fleeing GR in frustration with his role? Further, Draper and Maltby kept Lofberg and Abdelkader and Ritola off the roster at least one extra year. In two cases it didn't matter (as is usually how it works out), but still.

This whole situation is completely embarrassing to all involved.

Buckle up, then... because what the team does with Ericsson, Kronwall or whoever else hangs around that meets the general criteria of Holland's informal early retirement vesting system going forward is going to embarrass you too.

 

[PuckDynasty]

What's confusing is all indications at the singing were that this was strictly a signing for GR and would not be on the RW roster, barring catastrophe. How did Cleary not know this? Did KH misrepresent his chances or did DC misrepresent his intentions and was secretly thinking he'd wow everyone and would secure a roster spot?

 

[HockeyinHD]

I believe this was always going to be a case of "here's an extra mil, it's not quite what I promised you years ago but it's the best I can do. Take the money, take the year off, and we'll have a front office job ready for you next fall."

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1962489

"He's not gone yet. Waived <> demoted. This just means they can send him down in the next 30 days without having to waive him again.

I don't think he's going anywhere."

 

[HockeyinHD]

What's confusing is all indications at the singing were that this was strictly a signing for GR and would not be on the RW roster, barring catastrophe. How did Cleary not know this? Did KH misrepresent his chances or did DC misrepresent his intentions and was secretly thinking he'd wow everyone and would secure a roster spot?

The modernized (and inaccurately used) term 'Kabuki Theater' is most applicable here in it's common usage.

This entire thing was a moderately banal exercise through which the team could throw money at Cleary without having to deal with the possibility of penalties due to cap circumvention. In the extremely unlikely event Cleary drank deep from the fountain of youth and/or half the team broke their legs tobogganing, the possibility existed he would have some type of role.

Short of that, boths ides had to know that this was all just the long slow waltz to say goodbye.

 

[PuckDynasty]

Oh, come on. So if Cleary would have been playing regularly the last two years and stinking like Draper and Maltby did you'd have been fine with the contract? Get out of here with that. Maltby's last five years were pretty bad. He went from 24, 37, 33 in points to 11, 11, 10, 11, 6. He was a -34 his last 5 seasons.

Maltby was a dumpster fire and got two or three extra years worth of contracts for the same reason Cleary did.

Draper fell off the table his last three years, too. Went from 15:38 a night in 08 to 12, then 11.5, then 10.5 his last three. Was -14 his last three years.

Cleary's last two years were awful, too. His third from last was bad as well. Let's try and accurately remember how much that was true for Drapes and Maltby, also.



Cleary's made a fuss? Look, Holland played the same notes with Draper and Maltby on their way out the door too. Wouldn't guarantee them a roster spot, would offer them a one-way but they'd have to serve it out in GR... or, you know, nudge-nudge wink-wink.



How good the talent was has never once stopped anyone from complaining about the players who were keeping the talent from playing in the Detroit.

That said, and this is straining my memory a bit, but weren't Draper and Maltby's retention blamed at the time for Dick Axelsson not making the roster and fleeing GR in frustration with his role? Further, Draper and Maltby kept Lofberg and Abdelkader and Ritola off the roster at least one extra year. In two cases it didn't matter (as is usually how it works out), but still.



Buckle up, then... because what the team does with Ericsson, Kronwall or whoever else hangs around that meets the general criteria of Holland's informal early retirement vesting system going forward is going to embarrass you too.

Cleary was never all that good in the first place. He was a marginal player who took advantage of playing with great players and was given a chance by a coach who for whatever reason, worshipped him. He chipped in a few big playoff goals, but so did many other players.

Plenty of Wings have been kept around far longer than they should have been. That's the way they do things. Most of those guys could have fled for greener ($) pastures, but stayed for lower salaries, and longer term deals with the Wings. But it's been taken to ridiculous lengths with Cleary. I have no problem with Kronwall, Z or Dats being kept past their best used by date. But if they keep extending Luke Glendenning, Darren Helm or Kyle Quincey for 5 years after they've been semi effective, they'll get the same kind of venom as Cleary.

I think a lot of the animosity is coming from the fact that Cleary supposedly left and signed a 3 year deal with Philly. Then it magically disappeared and he signed the one year deal was allegedly promised 3 years here. That was a promise that shouldn't have been made. In addition, having to send Nyquist to the minors when it was abundantly clear he was NHL ready, soured many on Cleary.

 

[waltdetroit]

That said, and this is straining my memory a bit, but weren't Draper and Maltby's retention blamed at the time for Dick Axelsson not making the roster and fleeing GR in frustration with his role? Further, Draper and Maltby kept Lofberg and Abdelkader and Ritola off the roster at least one extra year. In two cases it didn't matter (as is usually how it works out), but still.

Abby played 1 1/2 seasons in GRG and came up and stayed (the following year too) due to injuries. At the time many thought he could have used more time in the AHL. The 1st 3 yrs with DRW he scored 3, 7, then 8 goals but was used mostly as a checker. His situation then reminds me a lot of Jurco's. Anyway, I do not believe he was held back at all.

 

[Mount Royal]

Cleary was never all that good in the first place. He was a marginal player who took advantage of playing with great players and was given a chance by a coach who for whatever reason, worshipped him. He chipped in a few big playoff goals, but so did many other players.

Plenty of Wings have been kept around far longer than they should have been. That's the way they do things. Most of those guys could have fled for greener ($) pastures, but stayed for lower salaries, and longer term deals with the Wings. But it's been taken to ridiculous lengths with Cleary. I have no problem with Kronwall, Z or Dats being kept past their best used by date. But if they keep extending Luke Glendenning, Darren Helm or Kyle Quincey for 5 years after they've been semi effective, they'll get the same kind of venom as Cleary.

I think a lot of the animosity is coming from the fact that Cleary supposedly left and signed a 3 year deal with Philly. Then it magically disappeared and he signed the one year deal was allegedly promised 3 years here. That was a promise that shouldn't have been made. In addition, having to send Nyquist to the minors when it was abundantly clear he was NHL ready, soured many on Cleary.

I've hated this saga as much as the next guy, but saying Cleary was always marginal is just putting a ridiculous spin on things. He was a great complementary player to have, and then injuries caught up to him. Did he take advantage of the talent around him? Sure, but he was still a good 2nd-3rd line tweener.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

its actually very sad on clearys part

he is either too dumb or too poor to realize his time in the league is over

if its the later then go to the ahl make your 950k and mentor the young guys on what it takes to be a pro. then when the season ends move on to a new position within the organization

the only other option is to retire and leave the money on the table

any and every other option is wrong and or pathetic for a man

 

[PuckDynasty]

I've hated this saga as much as the next guy, but saying Cleary was always marginal is just putting a ridiculous spin on things. He was a great complementary player to have, and then injuries caught up to him. Did he take advantage of the talent around him? Sure, but he was still a good 2nd-3rd line tweener.

That was part of the issue. He was probably a solid 3rd liner, but often times was given ample PP time and 1st and 2nd line minutes when he didn't have the talent to contribute. When you don't produce in those situations, it's much more noticeable. It wasn't as big of a deal giving a fourth liner another contract.

Cleary's situation reminds me a little bit of Brandon Inge with the Tigers. He probably did do some good things at some point but the poor play and the endless chances he was given and having to keep wondering how much longer are we going to put up with all the drama just got so tiresome. It's to the point where I really don't care what Cleary did early in his career. I don't even want to see him in the front office. He's done, and has been for a long time. Go away.

 

[sarcastro]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1962489

"He's not gone yet. Waived <> demoted. This just means they can send him down in the next 30 days without having to waive him again.

I don't think he's going anywhere."

I'm still not certain he's gone for good. But from the Holland quotes we've seen since that post, it really doesn't sound like they intend to bring him back. I hope that's accurate.