Ah, yes - the "true hockey fans will support a team no matter what" argument, which of course is only true if we're talking about the Canadiens, Rangers, and Maple Leafs and perhaps a dozen other pro sports teams total.
Also, the "real franchises figure out how to win" argument, which always get thrown at the markets who "don't deserve" a team, but always mysteriously never gets lobbed at franchises in locations where "true hockey fans" live and where markets "deserve" a team.
I think all we're missing is a demand to move the team to any city in Canada and the invocation of profits and revenue, and the hate-on for an undesirable market is complete.
It's 4 hours between TBL and FLA. If you live mostly anywhere inbetween or north of Tampa, you're going to Tampa to see a game of hockey. And most people in Florida are Tampa Bay fans (better team, still Florida). And that's assuming they even know what hockey is, the average person in Florida probably hasn't even seen a game before unless they moved from up north. The market is too hard for two teams to co-exist honestly.
"MOST" Keep imagining. There are very few available dates and any major venue in SE Florida.I imagine most major concerts/events in that area would be the American Airlines Arena or Hardrock Stadium
I was going to read all 7 pages before I posted but sometimes a post is so uneducated that a reply is a must. "The market? Really? Also "if you live in between? There is this thing called the everglades in between but thanks for proving that the geography of Florida or where its people live is not your strong suit. The Panthers draw from 3 counties in southeast Florida (maybe 5 but the other 2 are farther and sparsely populated) the 3 counties (Dade, Broward and Palm Beach) have a population of over 6.1 million people. There are plenty of fans and none of those 6.1 million is driving to Tampa to see the Lightning. Another thing they won't do it pump their dollars into a loser owners pockets. I understand that people in many northern cities don't really have an option for their entertainment dollar but people in Florida do. Nobody here is paying to watch a loser. They've been burned owners tearing down clubs for profit too often.
Ouch, jump to conclusions and miss the mark. I'm from Florida and this is all first hand accounts from those of us that lived further north. I can sympathize not wanting to line the pockets of crappy owners, but TB definitely has the majority of the market right now and it's unlikely it could support two teams if both were good.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME MARKET
Not physically, but on the broader scale they are. There's no other teams nearby than Tampa and Florida for a long while with Atlanta gone. Introduce someone to hockey and their exact reaction is 'I'm not driving all the way down there when Tampa is closer'. Combine that with Tampa being better and boom, a Lightning fan is born.
Rays are out in bum f*** Egypt and the Bucs havent been relevant since 2002.Tampa teams aren't very well attended in any other sport though.
This should be very easy to find out. County is getting part of arena profits if profits exceed certain threshold. It used to be $12 million (this was modified some years ago when county gave new subsidies to arena). I believe that threshold was met once so you do math, take arena profits (less than $12 million) minus hockey team losses ($28-$30 million).The profits from concerts are probably not as much as people think given artists appearance fees have risen dramatically and the consolidation in the concert industry. After all the costs involved, Panthers ownership might come out ahead by $10 - $12 million or so. A decent amount, but the impression I get from reading some of the comments in this thread is that the team would be profiting to the tune of $25 - $30 million and thus the Panthers are raking in the dough despite the lacklustre revenues of the hockey team.
Because they want hockey in south Florida?So if the arena makes money on non-hockey events why wouldn't the county just sell the arena to someone else who can make a profit off the arena and pay off the debt?
So if the arena makes money on non-hockey events why wouldn't the county just sell the arena to someone else who can make a profit off the arena and pay off the debt?
For fan accessibility in the region, no doubt moving east is a better call. However, its a long, but stress free trip for me at the moment to Sunrise. Anytime I can avoid Broward and Dade traffic on 95 is a good thing. Hence why I refuse to go to Marlin or Heat games .I would not be surprised of ownership looks at moving the team to Ft Lauderdale later on. They did take over the War Memorial Auditorium in Ft Lauderdale. They are going to renovate it with two indoor rinks, and a 3000 seat venue for concerts, conventions, and other events. There is word going around that the site will end up being the teams future practice facility.
Fans don't choose where teams operate. Owners do. If some owner wants to lose $15 million a year for 30 years in some desolate location, it's not hurting you at all. [And no, don't invoke "revenue sharing" in some way; if Desolate City wasn't getting it, someone else would. It's how revenue sharing works; all you'd be arguing about is who's "most deserving" which goes back to my point that it's not hurting you at all.]It's not any less educated than the asinine assumption that teams should be waited on for more than a quarter century to be successful on the ice to translate into success in the stands. You tell me how stupid that would sound when you're arguing that oft-repeated point if by 2023 they still haven't won a series yet, nevermind a cup.
I'm salty that people in Florida can hit the beaches 300+ days a year if they choose and pick up as many seashells as they want, while I have to save up a small fortune to go down for a week to perhaps spend 4 days there and hope the weather is good while I'm down there to get a small handful of small, shitty shells that have clearly been picked over by the crowds before me.Also that Toronto fan is probably salty he has to pay $200 or so for decent tickets while Florida fans can get in with $20.
Anyone know how much $ most teams make from tickets/merch/food compared to TV deals? I know the NBA and NFL teams make a killing on broadcast rights alone.
It's not any less educated than the asinine assumption that teams should be waited on for more than a quarter century to be successful on the ice to translate into success in the stands. You tell me how stupid that would sound when you're arguing that oft-repeated point if by 2023 they still haven't won a series yet, nevermind a cup.
"Let's wait for some game success!". Bollocks. Just gift it to them if it means so damn much to a team's finances. Worked so well for Carolina obviously.
Also that Toronto fan is probably salty he has to pay $200 or so for decent tickets while Florida fans can get in with $20.