Dale Tallon: Panthers lose "between 28 to 30 million dollars per year"

[96]

I am sorry, I didn’t realize it was your money they were losing.

Lol. There’s a pretty commonly known statistic that the top 5(?) maybe 3 teams pay for the rest of the league. The Leafs pay your teams light bills. At least you guys paid us back tho (With the best player you’ve had since the 80s).

 

[Victorious Secret]

Lol. There’s a pretty commonly known statistic that the top 5(?) maybe 3 teams pay for the rest of the league. The Leafs pay your teams light bills. At least you guys paid us back tho (With the best player you’ve had since the 80s).

It's "well-known" but you don't know if it's top 5 or 3?

 

[MNNumbers]

Lol. There’s a pretty commonly known statistic that the top 5(?) maybe 3 teams pay for the rest of the league. The Leafs pay your teams light bills. At least you guys paid us back tho (With the best player you’ve had since the 80s).

Completely WRONG...

The only shared revenue in the league comes from merchandising and national TV contracts. Considering that, in the last year, Vegas has been the biggest merchandise option, and that TV is not dependent on Toronto....then the conclusion is that in shared revenue, the top3 or 5 teams don't contribute much more than anyone else.

Then, there is revenue re-distribution. This total is approximately 6% of leageu wide HRR. 6%. That certainly isn't paying anyone's dues. And, that 6% is TOTAL. The breakdown:
A) the first half of it comes from the top 10 teams.
B) the next big piece comes from playoff ticket sales. Considering that the Leafs and Rangers and Canadians have rarely all qualified and even more rarely in the modern high-$$ era, one can hardly say that this part depends very much on the top 3 or top 5
C) the rest comes from league wide sources.

These things are CBA facts.

 

[tony d]

This doesn't surprise me. Their stadium basically looks empty whenever you watch a Panthers game. I think if things don't pick up soon you'll see them re locate.

 

[Hooby Dooby Doo]

This doesn't surprise me. Their stadium basically looks empty whenever you watch a Panthers game. I think if things don't pick up soon you'll see them re locate.

There's a good reason behind that

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Lol. There’s a pretty commonly known statistic that the top 5(?) maybe 3 teams pay for the rest of the league. The Leafs pay your teams light bills. At least you guys paid us back tho (With the best player you’ve had since the 80s).

Ok. So I say it again, I didn’t realize it was your money they were losing.

I didn’t realize Leafs wealth was your money.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Ok. So I say it again, I didn’t realize it was your money they were losing.

I didn’t realize Leafs wealth was your money.

It is, if he can afford the tickets

 

[Pilky01]

Embrace the lockout.

 

[sawchuk1971]

Show me a team that would do well in attendance if they:

-Missed the playoffs 20 out of their 25 years of existence.
-Had have twice+ as many coaches as they have had playoff experiences.
-Made bad trade, after bad trade, after bad trade
-Got rid of star players for pennies on the dollar
-Have had multiple, cheap owners who committed little to the organization, financially
-Lied to their faithful season ticket holders
-Spent money on 2nd and 3rd tier UFAs, and tried to sell them off as something more

I can go on and on, but you get the picture. Aside from a handful of teams, every team in the league would have issues with attendance. Hell, Chicago had attendance problems before their Cup runs, and there were talks of a Penguins relocation before they were gifted Crosby.

And this crap about the Panthers not working in South Florida because its a non-traditional hockey town is exactly that, crap. Go look at the videos when the team was in the playoffs, the building was as crazy as any in the league. There were weekday games in the middle of March, when the team was fighting for the playoffs, where the building was rocking. They will never be a top team attendance wise, but if they become a consistent playoff team, there is no reason why hockey couldnt work in South Florida. And consider the fact that the team has a real shot to jump to the top spot in terms of teams in South Florida. The Heat arent very good, the Fins are rebuilding, and the Marlins are trash. The Q signing alone has been a boost to the team, with a 200% jump in new partnerships and tickets since the same time last year.

i guess when people look at pics of the attendance and see empty seats and losing money, you gonna say the team needs to be relocated....which it may not be the case from the info on this thread...

 

[Ted Hoffman]

People keep excusing teams for being in the red because they've performed horribly on the ice. How many seasons is this excuse supposed to go on for? Should the 30 other owners start gifting that team some picks, assets, hell straight up PO berths just to make them better and see if there is some financial viability to the franchise?

Ah, yes - the "true hockey fans will support a team no matter what" argument, which of course is only true if we're talking about the Canadiens, Rangers, and Maple Leafs and perhaps a dozen other pro sports teams total.

Also, the "real franchises figure out how to win" argument, which always get thrown at the markets who "don't deserve" a team, but always mysteriously never gets lobbed at franchises in locations where "true hockey fans" live and where markets "deserve" a team.

I think all we're missing is a demand to move the team to any city in Canada and the invocation of profits and revenue, and the hate-on for an undesirable market is complete.

 

[StreetHawk]

This doesn't surprise me. Their stadium basically looks empty whenever you watch a Panthers game. I think if things don't pick up soon you'll see them re locate.

Not sure what Tallons comments are meant for? To just heap praise on his owner for spending money? Cause it also makes fans around hockey question why there is a team in a market that loses that much money on an annual basis.

 

[oknazevad]

The next best option, which I think is highly doubtful, is moving them to American Airlines Center. I would be interested to see how they do for one home game. The Lightning get tremendous support as their arena is downtown. The big issue I find is the location of arenas, which is what screwed Arizona because Gila River Arena is in Glendale which is so far out west. Their previous arena, home of the Phoenix Suns, is downtown and the Coyotes had some good support down there, good enough to not be questioned relocation. That's one big problem with the Senators is the location of Canadian Tire Centre.

Think it should be a law in the NHL in terms of arenas that they need to be in downtown or within a certain distance away.

On a side note, Toronto I think could have an arena with a capacity of 50,000 downtown and they'd sellout every single game.

Just because it seems that it needs to be repeated every time someone mentions the place as a venue for the Panthers: AmericanAirlines Arena cannot support a hockey team. And not just in the "off-center ice/obstructed views" way that Barclays Center or Talking Stick don't actually work as hockey arenas, either. The AAA doesn't even have ice making equipment at all. It is not a hockey arena. It is not a possible home for the Panthers. Period.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Several things to reiterate:

1- Yes, the lease requires being able to show 100M of losses in 7 years, by GAAP. This would be no problem. If you actually wanted to break the lease, it must be that there are losses to qualify.

2- Moving anywhere, including in market, requires breaking the lease. That means you can't even play one game at AAC without negotiating with Broward County. The county in this case, and cities in other cases, always make sure this is in place. The only benefit the host government usually gets is having people around. So, there's no way they will allow the games to be elsewhere.

3- That includes leaving, but maintaining operating rights. The 2 go together, clearly.

4- As to Glendale and the location of GRA. As has been said many time.....You can say it was the wrong location. You can say it a million times. But the fact remains that the team was NOT viable renting downtown in a BB arena with poor hockey sightlines and no other revenue save their own games. Glendale was the ONLY place who would build them a rink. Criticize all you want, but if not for Glendale, there was nothing.

4a - Same situation here in Florida. They needed their own rink, and Broward was the only place giving them one.

This pretty much covers it. The one thing you missed was that Viola has to give notice in July 2022 if they intend to break the lease after the 2023 season. I was a regular poster back in the day but after the new deal was struck in December 2015 I stopped because things were on the up and up (or so I thought). A little nervous for 2023 now but there's still time, it's a huge offseason for this franchise.

This doesn't surprise me. Their stadium basically looks empty whenever you watch a Panthers game. I think if things don't pick up soon you'll see them re locate.

I mean 2023 is a bit of time away. I honestly have no idea what Viola's intentions will be at that time, it's anyone's guess really.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Shoutout to @Killion @Major4Boarding old business mod crew

 

[GuelphStormer]

Ok. So I say it again, I didn’t realize it was your money they were losing.

I didn’t realize Leafs wealth was your money.

LOL ... why are you even here?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

LOL ... why are you even here?

Who are you again?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

^owl pun

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I wonder how much they'd sell for if they were on the market.

I mean they're not, so it's not like they're in trouble.

 

[ndal88a]

Just because it seems that it needs to be repeated every time someone mentions the place as a venue for the Panthers: AmericanAirlines Arena cannot support a hockey team. And not just in the "off-center ice/obstructed views" way that Barclays Center or Talking Stick don't actually work as hockey arenas, either. The AAA doesn't even have ice making equipment at all. It is not a hockey arena. It is not a possible home for the Panthers. Period.

Doesn't Disney on Ice visit AAA regularly every year? And AAA means arena in downtown Miami?

JOL

 

[oknazevad]

I knew someone was going to ask that. Disney on Ice has a portable rink setup just for arenas with no ice equipment. This video shows them taking it out of the old Arco/Sleep Train Arena in Sacramento, which also didn't have ice equipment (as is still true for its replacement, the Golden1 Center). And yes, Arco was weird and the concert configuration (which ice shows also use) was perpendicular to the basketball configuration. Regardless of that, the major aspect is that the ice is not a permanent feature of the arena.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I am pretty sure if they wanted to they can put in ice machine in there. The problem with AAA is the shape.

 

[oknazevad]

Retrofitting an ice plant would require completely digging up the floor to install the piping for the coolant. Not impossible, but It's one of those things that kinda are built around when the arena is designed. I can't imagine them doing it for any reason.

 

[Mightygoose]

I would think the bigger issue would be the lack of control at AAA. Being a tennant, the Panthers would not have access to the building's revenue and the arm of SSE that keeps the team viable would be cut off.

Unless Arison wants to buy them and there's no indication of that, the team is much better off in Sunrise.

 

[DowntownBooster]

Shoutout to [B]@Killion[/B] @Major4Boarding old business mod crew

Speaking of Killion, it's been quite a while since he's been on these boards. Any idea on his whereabouts? His posts were always an interesting read.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Hockey teams are terrible investments from a P&L perspective, even the great teams. But they're still an amazing investment overall because there are only 150 professional sports teams in North America and a lot more billionaires who are looking to buy a new plaything and want to compete for one of the few things that money can't buy (a Stanley Cup).

Yeah. On a yearly basis, the cash inflows/outflows probably aren't pretty for most, if not, all of the teams. But overall, the owners still make bank as its practically guaranteed that the teams will appreciate in value over time, even the less desirable ones.

It's like buying a good house, paying interest on the mortgage, but over time you'll still come out ahead.