Dale Tallon: Panthers lose "between 28 to 30 million dollars per year"

[justafan22]

31 Thoughts: Breaking down major NHL Awards races - Sportsnet.ca

“Vinny’s committed,” said Tallon. “He’s unbelievable. We lose $28 to $30 million a year and here he is, ‘Let’s go. Let’s go to the cap. Let’s get Joel. Let’s do what we have to do.’ So, God bless him.”

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[jaysoneil]

Roughly $700k each home game.

Oof.

 

[boredmale]

I remember when Charles Wang would cry poverty when he was with the Islanders, I always felt like he fudged the numbers using an accountant to make it seem worse then it was(ie it's sort of unfair not to count the 20M TV contract they have with MSG when you try to state how much money you lost)

 

[Sky04]

Roughly $700k each home game.

Oof.

Oh wow... "committed" is extremely generous

Even if the Panthers become a contender - is the market even strong enough for them to make money?

 

[BruinsBtn]

Hockey teams are terrible investments from a P&L perspective, even the great teams. But they're still an amazing investment overall because there are only 150 professional sports teams in North America and a lot more billionaires who are looking to buy a new plaything and want to compete for one of the few things that money can't buy (a Stanley Cup).

 

[hatterson]

It wouldn’t surprise me if that number is before revenue sharing or some other sort of money

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I read somewhere that Viola is all in to create a winner in order to see if southern Florida is a viable hockey market or not. This makes me think it’s true,

If he spends all this money on Q and potentially Bob+panarin, start winning more and revenue still doesn’t increase, I think you could see talk of a potential move in the coming years.

 

[CartographerNo611]

Sports in Miami is just bad idea in general unless a dolphin is involved.

 

[Coily]

I'm sure things will pick up.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It wouldn’t surprise me if that number is before revenue sharing or some other sort of money

Namely, arena money. Hockey operations are only one part of their revenue.

I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that the overall bottom line for that ownership group is -$30M. Business owners don’t just sit on losses like that and yell “gimme more where that came from!”. Tallon is talking about the one piece of the business he’s familiar with, but there’s a bigger picture at play.

 

[Saekk]

What the f***.

 

[who_me?]

Sports in Miami is just bad idea in general unless a dolphin is involved.

The Florida Dolphin-Eating Panthers

 

[Mosby]

Now imagine the coyotes.

Get rid of these joke teams seriously. It’s for the good of hockey.

Ironic avatar.

 

[FlameChampion]

I honestly doubt it. They probably lose 28-30 mil based on an accounting exercise but not in reality. I dont trust sports teams when they talk about stuff like this.

 

[DesertPenguin]

As an owner in a small market you either spend to the cap and hope that icing a competitive team year after year brings the fans, or you slash and burn to live off revenue sharing and the die hards that will watch hockey no matter the in ice product, or want to root for the away team.

Penguins were the latter for several years, and have switched to the former with great results. I think Arizona could do the same, but need an arena closer to civilization than Glendale. FLA? It seems like in a city as big as Miami, with presumably a strong snow bird contingent, they should be able to make it work.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

IF you're in sports to make money...you're in the wrong business.
Cats will be on the right path soon enough, and they'll be fine.

 

[Voight]

As an owner in a small market you either spend to the cap and hope that icing a competitive team year after year brings the fans, or you slash and burn to live off revenue sharing and the die hards that will watch hockey no matter the in ice product, or want to root for the away team.

Penguins were the latter for several years, and have switched to the former with great results. I think Arizona could do the same, but need an arena closer to civilization than Glendale. FLA? It seems like in a city as big as Miami, with presumably a strong snow bird contingent, they should be able to make it work.

PIT also won a lottery for a generational player and happened to draft the 3rd or 4th best player of this era as well. Can't exxactly bank on that happening.

They were also lucky Lemieux took ownership. I dont think Doan or Stephen Weiss want to own their former teams.

All due respect to Panthers fans who live in the area but I think they may end up in Quebec by 2025.

Hockey teams are terrible investments from a P&L perspective, even the great teams. But they're still an amazing investment overall because there are only 150 professional sports teams in North America and a lot more billionaires who are looking to buy a new plaything and want to compete for one of the few things that money can't buy (a Stanley Cup).

This why Ballmer dropped 2 billion on the Clippers and threw franchise values into a tailspin. He wanted to be apart of the exclusive sports owner club, was a basketball fanboy and had too much money to spend.

 

[Rebels57]

They need to relocate. Hopefully somewhere cold like Quebec.

Signed,
Flyers fan angry at Q for choosing Florida ​

 

[Groo]

They get paid in the end by buying thier teams for x and then selling them for xxx down the road.
Inflated appreciation

 

[BruinsBtn]

PIT also won a lottery for a generational player and happened to draft the 3rd or 4th best player of this era as well. Can't exxactly bank on that happening.

They were also lucky Lemieux took ownership. I dont think Doan or Stephen Weiss want to own their former teams.

All due respect to Panthers fans who live in the area but I think they may end up in Quebec by 2025.



This why Ballmer dropped 2 billion on the Clippers and threw franchise values into a tailspin. He wanted to be apart of the exclusive sports owner club, was a basketball fanboy and had too much money to spend.

Ballmer is the most-hilarious story. He was such an incompetent CEO that his personal shares of Microsoft rose $2 billion on the day he announced he was quitting. The Clippers were basically a gift to him for retirement.

 

[Lebowski]

Hockey teams are terrible investments from a P&L perspective, even the great teams. But they're still an amazing investment overall because there are only 150 professional sports teams in North America and a lot more billionaires who are looking to buy a new plaything and want to compete for one of the few things that money can't buy (a Stanley Cup).

Sorry, what? There's plenty of teams that generate positive cash flows, and even for the teams that do lose money, the franchises value just keep rising yty which can make even non-profitable teams a worthwhile investment by the time the owner wants to resell the team.

For example, the Molson family bought the Habs for 500M in 2009. Forbes recently valued the Habs franchise at 1.3B$ 10 years later.

Even ignoring the operating income, you're looking at a 160% yield over 10 years, which is roughly a 10% increase in value per year.

And again, that's ignoring the operating income of the franchise.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Sorry, what? There's plenty of teams that generate positive cash flows, and even for the teams that do lose money, the franchises value just keep rising yty which can make even non-profitable teams a worthwhile investment by the time the owner wants to resell the team.

For example, the Molson family bought the Habs for 500M in 2009. Forbes recently valued the Habs franchise to 1.3B$ 10 years later.

Even ignoring the operating income, you're looking at a 160% yield over 10 years, which is roughly a 10% increase in value per year.

And again, that's ignoring the operating income of the franchise.

Positive cash flows don't make for a great investment at all. If you're earnings are $10m on a $600m investment, that's a horrific investment. Your second sentence literally repeats exactly what I said. Did you even read beyond the part you bolded? Maybe go back and do that.

 

[KingsFan7824]

In 25 years, they've been to the playoffs 5 times, winning in the 1st round only once, 23 years ago. A kid born when they played the Avs graduated college last year.

Yeah, most franchises aren't going to be the Leafs. Most places, especially the non-college football world in Florida, you have to win to bring people in. When 80% of your history is irrelevance, it's tough to get people to watch. The Panthers have also never had the luxury that Toronto had in 87-88, when they were 21-49-10, but made the playoffs anyway. Even the SE division as a whole never did anything like that.

It's an uphill battle, no question about that.

 

[Ceremony]

Now imagine the coyotes.

Get rid of these joke teams seriously. It’s for the good of hockey.

> Auston Matthews avatar
> "get rid of joke teams like the Coyotes for the good of hockey"

> pick one

 

[Lebowski]

Positive cash flows don't make for a great investment at all. If you're earnings are $10m on a $600m investment, that's a horrific investment. Your second sentence literally repeats exactly what I said. Did you even read beyond the part you bolded? Maybe go back and do that.

Perhaps misunderstood.

What's the point of assessing whether acquiring a franchise is worthwhile or not while ignoring the single biggest contributor as to why acquiring a franchise is a worthwhile investment in the first place?