Confirmed with Link: [DAL/NYR] Zuccarello (30% retained) for 2019 2nd (Cond 1st*,) & 2020 3rd (Cond 1st**)

[Crease]

You rang. I'm actually one of the USA Hockey NTDP team physicians. Work with the '01 and '02's.

6 weeks is the norm. We can get players back sooner if a plate is put in but that depends on the type of fracture. If growth plates are closed sometimes we will use an ultrasound bone stimulator to increase healing.

Hands would be much worse. You can get them back especially if they are a bottom six forward in a more checking or a PK roll. Scores need their hands much more obviously.

Tell us about Jack Hughes' growth plates.

 

[gravey9]

If Zucc never plays another shift for Dallas and comes back to NY next year, his Dallas game worn Jersey from today will be worth a mint one day.

 

[Captain Midnight]

Tell us about Jack Hughes' growth plates.

Hahaha. Unfortunately you guys are not going to get anything out of me. I like my work with them.

Jack and the rest of the 01’s along with the 02’s are absolutely great.

Looking forward to this year’s draft in Vancouver. Hopefully I’ll see some of you guys there.

I know I met a couple of you guys in Dallas last year.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

They don't have anything to give up anymore. all their picks are tied up to us lol.

I mean they could essentially remove the conditions on the picks to us to create value. They also have some really nice prospects.

 

[Edge]

Between Zucc and Nash last year, it’s like Gorton is putting a hex on them right after he hangs up the phone with the other GM.

 

[aufheben]

If this doesn't show people why buyers don't want to pay out the nose at the deadline, I'm not sure anything will.

Pipe dream over

I mean... the Stars dropping out of the playoffs might ultimately be better for the Rangers when weighed against the likelihood of the Stars winning two playoff rounds. Right now that 2019 2nd is projected to be like 47th overall, there are several teams 1-2 pts behind the Stars, so 43rd overall would be possible. Jamie Benn also left the game after like one minute today as well, don't know what's going on there.

 

[Edge]

If this doesn't show people why buyers don't want to pay out the nose at the deadline, I'm not sure anything will.

I mean... the Stars dropping out of the playoffs might ultimately be better for the Rangers when weighed against the likelihood of the Stars winning two playoff rounds. Right now that 2019 2nd is projected to be like 47th overall, there are several teams 1-2 pts behind the Stars, so 43rd overall would be possible. Jamie Benn also left the game after like one minute today as well, don't know what's going on there.

Truth be told, if they are without Benn and Zucc, there’s not a hell of a lot preventing that pick from being in the 30s.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

The alternative is to watch those players continue to slide, do nothing and slide with them.

I get where people’s hearts are, but we’re at a point where the moves have to come from part of the body that’s north of the heart.

I understand the business of hockey. And after 50+ years of being a Ranger fan, I certainly am familiar with heartbreak (1972!) and years of rotten or mediocre teams. As of right now, color me skeptical about the ability of this franchise to finally figure out the magic formula. Trading for "futures" is fine,a long as the future becomes the present.

We'll have to wait and see how the future plays out. But, one thing I do know is that hockey is a game that's all about heart. The Rangers lost a piece of their heart in the Zucc trade-- I'm not sure they will be able to get it back so quickly.

 

[aufheben]

Truth be told, if they are without Benn and Zucc, there’s not a hell of a lot preventing that pick from being in the 30s.

Honestly I looking forward to watching Zuccarello with Seguin and Radulov. He looked like a great fit in Dallas today, so credit to Nill for identifying that, and again this is why teams might be hesitant with their 1sts (other than some contenders*.) Dallas is now without all their 2nd, 3rd, and 7th round picks until 2021.

*The ones left that still have their 2019 1sts: Boston, NY Islanders, Pittsburgh, Washington, Nashville, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Vegas.

San Jose, Toronto, St. Louis, and Columbus don't have their 2019 1st, and Tampa's has NYR's condition in it (I don't even remember how that works.)

 

[Edge]

I understand the business of hockey. And after 50+ years of being a Ranger fan, I certainly am familiar with heartbreak (1972!) and years of rotten or mediocre teams. As of right now, color me skeptical about the ability of this franchise to finally figure out the magic formula. Trading for "futures" is fine,a long as the future becomes the present.

We'll have to wait and see how the future plays out. But, one thing I do know is that hockey is a game that's all about heart. The Rangers lost a piece of their heart in the Zucc trade-- I'm not sure they will be able to get it back so quickly.

And that’s fine, I get that.

But I have yet to see someone offer up a viable alternative to at least trying to stock up on young talent.

This team was aging, becoming more frail, getting diminishing returns, and had surrendered a lot of depth for that 2012-2016 window.

I think there’s a tendency to view a rebuild as a team’s preferred method. The truth is that no team likes to rebuild. They’d much rather be able to keep band together — for many of the reasons you just cited. They’re all true.

Unfortunately, at some point it usually becomes apparent that you can’t keep doing that. Ultimately it comes down to a question of “when” to do it.

Guys like McD, Zucc, Nash, etc. weren’t going to get any better. They weren’t going to get any younger. And the odds of them gaining value was pretty slim.

So you swallow hard, try to maximize the value you can get, while there’s still value to be had, and you attempt to move forward.

This wasn’t the 1988 Oilers we’re breaking up, this wasn’t a team that had one or two more runs in it.

If we didn’t do it now, we’d have to do it next year, or the year after. And the returns we’ve received in 2018 and 2019 would be even less. And unlike right now, we wouldn’t even have the possibility of guys like Kravtsov or Miller or many of the other names that at least stand a chance of having a long-term impact in 2024.

A rebuild isn’t about risk aversion. It’s about applied risk in the face of adversity.

 

[Edge]

Honestly I looking forward to watching Zuccarello with Seguin and Radulov. He looked like a great fit in Dallas today, so credit to Nill for identifying that, and again this is why teams might be hesitant with their 1sts (other than the few contenders*.) Dallas is now without all their 2nd, 3rd, and 7th round picks until 2021.

*The ones left that even still have their 1sts. San Jose, Toronto, St. Louis, and Columbus don't have their 2019 1st, and Tampa's has NYR's condition in it (I don't even remember how that works.)

And the draft is something that kind of takes on a life of its own.

2019 is seen as having a strong first round, so everyone wants those picks. But that perception also has the opposite effect.

Just like we want the picks, other teams want to hold onto them.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Remember also that Dallas is going to have trouble attracting FAs after all that nonsense where they shredded Benn and Seguin publicly. Hockey players talk to each other a lot and Benn and Seguin are popular and respected players around the league. They were never a top FA destination to start with so if they can get an edge with a player like Zuccarello they may be willing to shell out that first to keep him long term.

 

[aufheben]

I think there’s a tendency to view a rebuild as a team’s preferred method. The truth is that no team likes to rebuild. They’d much rather be able to keep band together — for many of the reasons you just cited. They’re all true.

Unfortunately, at some point it usually becomes apparent that you can’t keep doing that. Ultimately it comes down to a question of “when” to do it.

This is how I look at these trades the past couple years. You can't win every trade, but you can get fair value in smart trades. This team needs more darts to throw, way more. I don't think people should be downer's about prospects, but there has been some wild optimism. The majority of these kids either aren't going to make it in the NHL, or won't come close to reaching their potential. The first round's are always littered with the latter, and after the first or second round, career NHLers of any quality are rare.

Gorton has for the most part been making all the smart trades, the reasonable ones that just needed to be done. I like that it's been all business. This is what a team like the Canucks should have started probably immediately after 2012-13, but they wasted a few years fiddling around because of the Sedins. Fortunately for them the hockey guys took a break from spiritually boning that franchise and they ended up with Elias Pettersson, but nonetheless.

 

[Machinehead]

Just pretend we got the Grabner return for Zuccarello and we got the Zuccarello return for Grabner.

Working for me.

 

[Kupo]

@Edge dropping bars of wisdom In this mother****er.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Just pretend we got the Grabner return for Zuccarello and we got the Zuccarello return for Grabner.

Working for me.

Is the Zuccarello return really worse than the Grabner return?

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Is the Zuccarello return really worse than the Grabner return?

That depends on if either condition is met.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

That depends on if either condition is met.

Even if they don’t, is a second and a third worse than a second and a prospect that was taken in the fifth round as an over ager?

 

[Machinehead]

Even if they don’t, is a second and a third worse than a second and a prospect that was taken in the fifth round as an over ager?

I'm taking into account that Rykov has developed into better than a 5th rounder.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Is the Zuccarello return really worse than the Grabner return?

Assuming that we don't get a first (relatively safe assumption) it definitely is.

Rykov held less value for NJ, because they were unsure about getting him to come over. If they knew they could get him in the NHL he would of never been in the deal.

 

[aufheben]

Gustav Nyquist got a nearly identical package lol

 

[RangerBoy]

The Red Wings got a worse package.

The Wings traded winger Nyquist to the Sharks just after midnight on Monday morning in exchange for a 2019 second-round draft pick and a conditional third-round pick in 2020. The pick would become a 2020 second-rounder should the Sharks advance to the 2019 Stanley Cup Final or Nyquist re-sign with the Sharks.

Detroit Red Wings trade Gustav Nyquist to San Jose Sharks for picks

The Sharks have the Panthers second round pick from the Hoffman trade. The Sharks have their 2nd too. The Sharks and Senators put a condition on Florida pick. Ottawa gets the better pick which is the Florida pick. The Sharks sent their late 2nd to Detroit.

The Red Wings got more for Brendan Smith. The Rangers sent Ottawa's 2nd in 2018(Zibanejad trade) to Detroit, A 3rd from the Rangers in 2017 also went to the Wings. #crazy.

If Dallas falls apart, their second round pick becomes a higher pick. The Rangers would have two high 2nd's in that scenario.

 

[NernieBichols]

What do you even do now if you're Jim Nill? Add more? Do they jump in on Hayes now? Or just fold up?

Brass

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm taking into account that Rykov has developed into better than a 5th rounder.

I'm not sure Rykov would have been as keen to come over the pond to play for the Devils as he seems to be for the Rangers.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I know some folks are upset that we didn't keep Zucc for that type of return. I think Hayes is the guy that if you don't the return you want, you keep and sign long term. On a 5-6 year deal, he will be the same age that Zucc was when he was traded to Dallas.