Salary Cap: Dadonov and Hoffman's future in Florida?

[Dnigly13]

Pass on both. Win the lotto. Bring up the kids. Sign a second and third line center.

 

[GermanPanther]

Hoffmann might played better then most in this Team, he played with Energy on both Sides even scored in the PO and before.

I also was on him before the break and the crazy pre-Playoffs. Dadonov slowed down a bit the last Year, while Hoffman showed what he can deliver. We had March working good for us, before we dumped him and turned out to be an awesome Pro Player. If Hoffmann feels good and like to play here, let him stay. there are so many other things we have to get rid of it first.

pass on Dadonov, that opens up a new spot for a new Winger who ever this might be.

 

[FrolikFan67]

Pass on both. We cant afford to spend the money. Once we re-sign Weegar and Wallmark and bring up Tippett and denisenko we’ll have roughly 9 to 9.3 if my math was right, did this days ago but don’t remember everything. We need to use that to sign/pay for a 2nd line center and at least one D. Hoff and dads will take up at least 6mil, probably more depending on who we’re talking about, leaving barely anything for a D and forcing Wallmark to be the 2C

 

[sinDer]

Just go youth. At least those kids are hungry to be something.

Not for a long time once they become a Panther.

 

[sinDer]

Are we still talking like they would sign with us? lol

 

[RainingRats]

Hoffman is prob top forward free agent. He’ll be too expensive to sign, imo.

I could see Dadonov getting a lot of interest but I wouldn’t want to sign him to a multi year deal

 

[zeroG]

they are both very good top 6 guys and could contribute pretty much anywhere in the league.

i think as a GM, you need to look at shoring up the rest of the roster and see where they might fit in. maybe one would be willing to sign for a slight discount? i mean, this team is pretty close and playing in south florida with no taxes isn't a bad gig.

 

[Gaebriel]

Dadonov is probably a better player overall but Hoffman has an elite shooting skill that few players have. If you're going to sign one, I would sign the one with the most irreplaceable talent set.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Dadonov can go fly a kite. If Hoffman will sign for $7M, keep him. Otherwise, it’s time to move on

 

[sinDer]

they are both very good top 6 guys and could contribute pretty much anywhere in the league.

i think as a GM, you need to look at shoring up the rest of the roster and see where they might fit in. maybe one would be willing to sign for a slight discount? i mean, this team is pretty close and playing in south florida with no taxes isn't a bad gig.

Why would they sign here for a discount while they'll probably get something like 10 other offers?

And no, this team is not "pretty close".

 

[RainingRats]

Prob should get a pick for each of
Their rights

 

[Haj]

I wouldn't sign either of them unless Yandle waives his NMC, Matheson is traded, and Stralman is bought out.

We need centers and defensemen.

I'd probably go with Dadonov since he is better at even strength.

 

[violaswallet]

I found this advanced analytics piece interesting: Top 20 NHL UFAs: Analysis, projections and thoughts on the Class of 2020

Dadanov projects to have the 4th higher contract value in the league, behind Petro, Hall, and Krug, for free agents. Hoffman is 10th. The underlying model projects a high decline for Hoff.

I somewhat buy the idea that Dady might age better, although I'm not sure given how Dady's play fell when not next to Barky. Still, I'm beginning to hope that we could re-sign Dady for say 6M over 3 years so that we can think use the money to offer Huby.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I found this advanced analytics piece interesting: Top 20 NHL UFAs: Analysis, projections and thoughts on the Class of 2020

Dadanov projects to have the 4th higher contract value in the league, behind Petro, Hall, and Krug, for free agents. Hoffman is 10th. The underlying model projects a high decline for Hoff.

I somewhat buy the idea that Dady might age better, although I'm not sure given how Dady's play fell when not next to Barky. Still, I'm beginning to hope that we could re-sign Dady for say 6M over 3 years so that we can think use the money to offer Huby.

Don't you feel there's a team that will offer $10 mil x 6 for AP? Feel that offer in article is fairly light.
May not be TOR or STL but I'm telling you if he goes to OTT, that team is gonna be scary in 2-3 years.
Chabot, AP and Brannstrom is a pretty good crew for the next 6 years.
Melnyk is a asshole but it brings AP close to home while being a big mentor to a young building team and it accelerates their build with two top 5 picks as well. They can easily make another trade for a NHL forward with NYI 1st + their 2nds. Bring in a retained MAF/trade for Andersen and they may just sniff a playoff spot within 2 years.

Stay away from Hall.

I'm kinda shocked at the evaluation for Dadonov. High in the 6's x 5 years. Definitely the better two way player but that comment about his P/60 going from 2.44 with Barkov and 1.77 without him is scary. (75% of his shifts with #16)
Don't think he would sign for 3 years, unless you offer him $7.5 million? 4 years seems like the minimum, need the security at his age. Not too may 35 year olds hack it in the today's speed game.
Just have a bad feeling in my stomach any 4-5 year deal for him won't age well.

Hoff - If he would accept that offer in article, Zito better ink him immediately. Rather it be 4 years but that caphit is managable and fair.
We will miss him and that bullet shot. He's missed 15 games in his 6 full seasons.
We need his speed as well and imo, he produces even strength and with many different line-mates.
Add Tippett to that PP when he's ready and we have two snipers blasting one timers.

 

[violaswallet]

Don't you feel there's a team that will offer $10 mil x 6 for AP? Feel that offer in article is fairly light.
May not be TOR or STL but I'm telling you if he goes to OTT, that team is gonna be scary in 2-3 years.
Chabot, AP and Brannstrom is a pretty good crew for the next 6 years.
Melnyk is a asshole but it brings AP close to home while being a big mentor to a young building team and it accelerates their build with two top 5 picks as well. They can easily make another trade for a NHL forward with NYI 1st + their 2nds. Bring in a retained MAF and they may just sniff a playoff spot.

Stay away from Hall.

I'm kinda shocked at the evaluation for Dadonov. High in the 6's x 5 years. Definitely the better two way player but that comment about his P/60 going from 2.44 with Barkov and 1.77 without him is scary. (75% of his shifts with #16)
Don't think he would sign for 3 years, unless you offer him $7.5 million? 4 years seems like the minimum, need the security at his age. Not too may 35 year olds hack it in the today's speed game.
Just have a bad feeling in my stomach any 4-5 year deal for him won't age well.

Hoff - If he would accept that offer in article, Zito better ink him immediately. Rather it be 4 years but that caphit is managable and fair.
We will miss him and that bullet shot. He's missed 15 games in his 6 full seasons.
We need his speed as well and imo, he produces even strength and with many different line-mates.
Add Tippett to that PP when he's ready and we have two snipers blasting one timers.

I think the article tries to estimate fair-value by imposing certain beliefs of value-added, so it's a different exercise than predicting contracts or what the market predicts. The valued-added of Petro is (a) contingent on the beliefs of the GM (and the underlying model) and (b) is probably different for different teams, so probably the contract will be much higher... (I also want to caveat in economics there is the concept of winners curse: often in bidding contests with different beliefs, the winner has the highest beliefs and overpays...which I think happens with players like Ladd or Neal where the uncertainty is when their age affects them...)

I agree, that the non-Barkov performance is disturbing with Dadanov and I don't think it is built into their model;I think it probably would lead other teams to undervalue Dadonov, which I find as a good thing and might help us actually given that it is an easy stat.

I agree on signing Hoff for that contract: it's fair-value. I think Hoff is the guy that will be bargained up by optimistic beliefs: he is a Canadian 35-goal scorer with compete...

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I think the article tries to estimate fair-value by imposing certain beliefs of value-added, so it's a different exercise than predicting contracts or what the market predicts. The valued-added of Petro is (a) contingent on the beliefs of the GM (and the underlying model) and (b) is probably different for different teams, so probably the contract will be much higher... (I also want to caveat in economics there is the concept of winners curse: often in bidding contests with different beliefs, the winner has the highest beliefs and overpays...which I think happens with players like Ladd or Neal where the uncertainty is when their age affects them...)

I agree, that the non-Barkov performance is disturbing with Dadanov and I don't think it is built into their model;I think it probably would lead other teams to undervalue Dadonov, which I find as a good thing and might help us actually given that it is an easy stat.

I agree on signing Hoff for that contract: it's fair-value. I think Hoff is the guy that will be bargained up by optimistic beliefs: he is a Canadian 35-goal scorer with compete...

STL's window isn't wide open anymore imo. Parayko has two years left before a similar deal to AP, he will be 30 when due. They may have another 2 years to win another one.
-Faulk contract is a blocking anchor
-Tank may never be the same again with all these shoulder injuries.
-Will Binnington be a flash in the pan?
-Their cupboards aren't stocked really well, their LD is lean.
Report out saying STL low-balled last offer to AP and he wasn't happy, not sure if that's just posturing but have a feeling he may leave a ship that has some big holes waiting to burst in 2-3 years.

I only say OTT because they do have the cap space ($40 mil right now) to finish the build in 2 more years with this off-season (#3 and #5 OV + two big moves whether free agency or trade), add a goalie (market is flooded right now) and give it a year or two.
DET is stacked on RD, NJ doesn't seem to be a fit, the top tier contenders will struggle to make such a big caphit work if they want to contend and keep current core together.

Dadonov's fancy stat on defense in that model isn't really good for them saying he is a two way player. He did drive offense though but that goes back to my point of being with our two best play-makers majority of the time.
Feel Denisenko is going to be a playmaker so we have him, Barkov and Huberdeau setting up the shooters in Hoffman, Tippett, Connolly. We should have 5-6 guys capable of 20+ goals again, maybe not next year but when the rookies improve.
If we did sign him, hopefully it's at that 3 years (inflated) but are we sure Huberdeau will re-sign?
Will it work long term? We will have tons of money ready for both #11 and 16 if need be.

Had to crunch some numbers just to satisfy my curiosity.

Dadonov: 25 of his 30 points 5 on 5 came with one or two of Huberdeau and Barkov.

Hoffman: 7 of his 38 points 5 on 5 came with one or two of Huberdeau and Barkov.

*the site I used only counts 31 points for Hoffman 5 on 5 but other site says he had 38 ES points, Dadonov's numbers are same on both sites*
Either way, proves my point he produces away from the big two up front.

Feel Tippett could supply 30ish even strength points with one or two of Huberdeau no?
The kid literally needs to go to the net and wait for passes upon passes in the slot.

 

[violaswallet]

STL's window isn't wide open anymore imo. Parayko has two years left before a similar deal to AP, he will be 30 when due. They may have another 2 years to win another one.
-Tank may never be the same again with all these shoulder injuries.
-Will Binnington be a flash in the pan?
-Their cupboards aren't stocked really well, their LD is lean.
Report out saying STL low-balled last offer to AP and he wasn't happy, not sure if that's just posturing but have a feeling he may leave a ship that has some big holes waiting to burst in 2-3 years.

I only say OTT because they do have the cap space ($40 mil right now) to finish the build in 2 more years with this off-season (#3 and #5 OV + two big moves whether free agency or trade), add a goalie (market is flooded right now) and give it a year or two.
DET is stacked on RD, NJ doesn't seem to be a fit, the top tier contenders will struggle to make such a big caphit work if they want to contend and keep current core together.

Dadonov's fancy stat on defense in that model isn't really good for them saying he is a two way player. He did drive offense though but that goes back to my point of being with our two best play-makers majority of the time.
Feel Denisenko is going to be a playmaker so we have him, Barkov and Huberdeau setting up the shooters in Hoffman, Tippett, Connolly. We should have 5-6 guys capable of 20+ goals again, maybe not next year but when the rookies improve.
If we did sign him, hopefully it's at that 3 years (inflated) but are we sure Huberdeau will re-sign?
Will it work long term? We will have tons of money ready for both #11 and 16 if need be.

Had to crunch some numbers just to satisfy my curiosity.

Dadonov: 25 of his 30 points 5 on 5 came with one or two of Huberdeau and Barkov.

Hoffman: 7 of his 38 points 5 on 5 came with one or two of Huberdeau and Barkov.

*the site I used only counts 31 points for Hoffman 5 on 5 but other site says he had 38 ES points, Dadonov's numbers are same on both sites*
Either way, proves my point he produces away from the big two up front.

Feel Tippett could supply 30ish even strength points with one or two of Huberdeau no?
The kid literally needs to go to the net and wait for passes upon passes in the slot.

I can't say much for other teams: it is not obvious to me where Petro would be a perfect signing. I have no idea how he will age.

I wouldn't bet on either Tippett or Denisenko impacting the game much the first 2-3 seasons, but in particular with Denisenko. I think Tippett's shot makes him likely to play powerplay though. This is probably why I am more bullish on Dadonov vs Hoffman given I assume Dady will be cheaper and I think will age better given both are about 31...

I am not sure penciling Tippett in for top 3 minutes would be reasonable at all to be honest.

The thing with comparing performance of Dady and Hoff: the HBH line had no chemistry and couldn't produce, so we need to consider that. I'd be interested in who played best with the big two.

No idea of Huby will re-sign; probably depends how we can grow as a team. Still, I think we need to plan for retaining our core of Barkov, Ekblad and Huberdeau; otherwise, it might not making sense to try to compete given our not so super strong young players...

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I can't say much for other teams: it is not obvious to me where Petro would be a perfect signing. I have no idea how he will age.

I wouldn't bet on either Tippett or Denisenko impacting the game much the first 2-3 seasons, but in particular with Denisenko. I think Tippett's shot makes him likely to play powerplay though. This is probably why I am more bullish on Dadonov vs Hoffman given I assume Dady will be cheaper and I think will age better given both are about 31...

I am not sure penciling Tippett in for top 3 minutes would be reasonable at all to be honest.

The thing with comparing performance of Dady and Hoff: the HBH line had no chemistry and couldn't produce, so we need to consider that. I'd be interested in who played best with the big two.

No idea of Huby will re-sign; probably depends how we can grow as a team. Still, I think we need to plan for retaining our core of Barkov, Ekblad and Huberdeau; otherwise, it might not making sense to try to compete given our not so super strong young players...

No for sure, both will need to still develop in the NHL but think it should be quicker than most think.
Tippett was recently ranked 25th and Denisenko ranked 11th in the top 100 prospects review just a couple weeks ago:
https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-top-100-prospects-ranking/
Feel both of the young guns should be at least 50pt players within 2-3 years.

Why would Dadonov age better in your opinion? Harder worker? Bigger heart? He has been durable while here the last 3 years, missed 8 games the first year but fully healthy last two.

Just figured Tippett is most NHL ready so you at least put one of those playmakers with him to find some success/confidence. Again, we won't contend next year anyhow, just about building up his skill set.
Feel if you put Tippett on the 2nd or 3rd line, you're not using him to his strengths and with uncertainty of a 2c seems like he's set up to fail. If he isn't producing. Q will glare him into the doghouse.

Oh I'm fine if Hoffman is still separated from Huberdeau and Barkov, he doesn't need high end talent to be productive, feel that's a plus over Dadonov.
Would be great if Huberdeau did re-sign, not sure if he will enjoy another iffy 2 years ahead.

 

[violaswallet]

No for sure, both will need to still develop in the NHL but think it should be quicker than most think.
Tippett was recently ranked 25th and Denisenko ranked 11th in the top 100 prospects review just a couple weeks ago:
https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-top-100-prospects-ranking/
Feel both of the young guns should be at least 50pt players within 2-3 years.

Why would Dadonov age better in your opinion? Harder worker? Bigger heart? He has been durable while here the last 3 years, missed 8 games the first year but fully healthy last two.

Just figured Tippett is most NHL ready so you at least put one of those playmakers with him to find some success/confidence. Again, we won't contend next year anyhow, just about building up his skill set.
Feel if you put Tippett on the 2nd or 3rd line, you're not using him to his strengths and with uncertainty of a 2c seems like he's set up to fail. If he isn't producing. Q will glare him into the doghouse.

Oh I'm fine if Hoffman is still separated from Huberdeau and Barkov, he doesn't need high end talent to be productive, feel that's a plus over Dadonov.
Would be great if he did re-sign, not sure if he will enjoy another iffy 2 years ahead.

Eh, I hope that they're ready, but I think it will be closer to year 2 or 3. Maybe Tippett will impact earlier, but I'm pretty confident that we're a long way until Hoffman/Dady level.

With Dady, part of it is his game style and his ability to play two ways.I think the other thing, that we're seeing with Radulov, is that he has played a lot less say over the past 8 years given his KHL years; less wear and tear on his body.

I think you touched on the main problem: who is the 2c? I think Wallmark or Saarela could be good 3cs. (Saarela is playing as center in Finland right now actually)

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Eh, I hope that they're ready, but I think it will be closer to year 2 or 3. Maybe Tippett will impact earlier, but I'm pretty confident that we're a long way until Hoffman/Dady level.

With Dady, part of it is his game style and his ability to play two ways.I think the other thing, that we're seeing with Radulov, is that he has played a lot less say over the past 8 years given his KHL years; less wear and tear on his body.

I think you touched on the main problem: who is the 2c? I think Wallmark or Saarela could be good 3cs. (Saarela is playing as center in Finland right now actually)

We shall see, would be nice to see some ELC guys produce right off the bat.
Tippett will be a good complimentary sniper, average defense but good to great size, speed and shot.
Denisenko looks to be a line driving playmaker, puckhog but in a good way, decent shot but great hockey IQ and has some crazy to his game. He is a leader, already being a Captain at WJC.

Gildon wore C at New Hampshire
Ludvig with Portland
Koly was Captain for Belarus

Good point with Radulov. just saw some games where Dadonov looked gassed and burnt out, as you said, reducing some minutes may help. Will be interesting month ahead with draft and free agency a couple days later.

Good thing about Saarela (playing C) is he had chemistry with Tippett in AHL but does Q run two rookies on same line? Saarela can play LW/C which is useful, would like to see him get a shot at 2C if just for a couple games, never know if he takes off. Has offensive instincts for it, not sure about the defense part.
Both aren't known for great defense, Wallmark would be an option I guess?

 

[KW]

Daddy did nothing in the pretend playoffs. Hoff put in a very noticeable effort and was productive. When games count, daddy disappears.

 

[violaswallet]

We shall see, would be nice to see some ELC guys produce right off the bat.
Tippett will be a good complimentary sniper, average defense but good to great size, speed and shot.
Denisenko looks to be a line driving playmaker, puckhog but in a good way, decent shot but great hockey IQ and has some crazy to his game. He is a leader, already being a Captain at WJC.

Gildon wore C at New Hampshire
Ludvig with Portland
Koly was Captain for Belarus

Good point with Radulov. just saw some games where Dadonov looked gassed and burnt out, as you said, reducing some minutes may help. Will be interesting month ahead with draft and free agency a couple days later.

Good thing about Saarela (playing C) is he had chemistry with Tippett in AHL but does Q run two rookies on same line? Saarela can play LW/C which is useful, would like to see him get a shot at 2C if just for a couple games, never know if he takes off. Has offensive instincts for it, not sure about the defense part.
Both aren't known for great defense, Wallmark would be an option I guess?

Yep yep: I think we are in for an interesting off season to say the least.

Just to be clear I love Hoffman and wish we could keep him but the problem is more difficult.

with respect to Saarela, I have no idea what type of center he would be: About the rookies well there is a good chance we have 2 rookie centers on the roster sadly...

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Yep yep: I think we are in for an interesting off season to say the least.

Just to be clear I love Hoffman and wish we could keep him but the problem is more difficult.

with respect to Saarela, I have no idea what type of center he would be: About the rookies well there is a good chance we have 2 rookie centers on the roster sadly...

Wish harder!
Q will have to ride out the rookie mistakes, these guys need to learn and be a sponge.

 

[Dread Clawz]

We shall see, would be nice to see some ELC guys produce right off the bat.
Tippett will be a good complimentary sniper, average defense but good to great size, speed and shot.
Denisenko looks to be a line driving playmaker, puckhog but in a good way, decent shot but great hockey IQ and has some crazy to his game. He is a leader, already being a Captain at WJC.

Gildon wore C at New Hampshire
Ludvig with Portland
Koly was Captain for Belarus

Good point with Radulov. just saw some games where Dadonov looked gassed and burnt out, as you said, reducing some minutes may help. Will be interesting month ahead with draft and free agency a couple days later.

Good thing about Saarela (playing C) is he had chemistry with Tippett in AHL but does Q run two rookies on same line? Saarela can play LW/C which is useful, would like to see him get a shot at 2C if just for a couple games, never know if he takes off. Has offensive instincts for it, not sure about the defense part.
Both aren't known for great defense, Wallmark would be an option I guess?

Saarela has some experience though and I don't have any complaints about his defense. I don't think it would be an issue playing them on the same line.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Saarela has some experience though and I don't have any complaints about his defense. I don't think it would be an issue playing them on the same line.

Ya he did play bottom 6 C/W in AHL this past year as well so he's very versatile, maybe just maybe.
We found Marchessault right.