D Lian Bichsel - EHC Biel-Bienne, NL (2022, 18th, DAL)

Pavels Dog

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Why? Seider is a righty, smaller than the other two and wasn't playing in Sweden in his draft year.
Stylistically more similar, really mature physically (for their age), questions about offensive upside and projected as mid-to-late 1st rounders.
Edvinsson was a consensus top 10 pick with huge upside obvious to anyone who watched him, but very, very raw. Edvinsson is also an elite skater which neither Bichsel or Seider really are (especially not Bichsel).
 
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LastWordArmy

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Swiss defenceman Lian Bichsel came up in the Biel-Bienne system. However, he spent his draft season in Sweden as he looked to improve his draft stock. He joined the Leksands IF system. Bichsel played 11 games with the Leksands J20 team, scoring three goals and four assists for seven points. He was then called up to the SHL squad, spending most of the season playing against men. In 29 games, Bichsel scored one goal and two assists for three points. He also played in eight games in the Champions Hockey League, scoring one goal.

 

Hinterland

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Swiss defenceman Lian Bichsel came up in the Biel-Bienne system. However, he spent his draft season in Sweden as he looked to improve his draft stock. He joined the Leksands IF system. Bichsel played 11 games with the Leksands J20 team, scoring three goals and four assists for seven points. He was then called up to the SHL squad, spending most of the season playing against men. In 29 games, Bichsel scored one goal and two assists for three points. He also played in eight games in the Champions Hockey League, scoring one goal.


That's not correct. It's true Leksands got him to play for their U20 team but Bichsel won an SHL spot during camp. If you watch the video I posted, GM Thomas Johansson explains how they didn't know how good Bichsel was when they signed him but ultimately found out he's too good to be left off their SHL team. So Bichsel actually was an SHL regular and made the Leksands SHL opening night lineup which is quite remarkable for a foreign kid over in Sweden. Bichsel played most games with the kids later in the season on his way back from injury. Without that injury, Bichsel would have played more SHL games but significantly less U20 games. Maybe a few to get additional ice time.
 
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theslatcher

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That's not correct. It's true Leksands got him to play for their U20 team but Bichsel won an SHL spot during camp. If you watch the video I posted, GM Thomas Johansson explains how they didn't know how good Bichsel was when they signed him but ultimately found out he's too good to be left off their SHL team. So Bichsel actually was an SHL regular and made the Leksands SHL opening night lineup which is quite remarkable for a foreign kid over in Sweden. Bichsel played most games with the kids later in the season on his way back from injury. Without that injury, Bichsel would have played more SHL games but significantly less U20 games. Maybe a few to get additional ice time.
There's a lot of bad information in your post:

Lian was Leksand's 8D coming into the season: so he didn't get much ice time when he was on the roster(which he wasn't when the team was healthy + they went with more than 12F instead of 8D and such).

The injury you refer to was the one from an CHL game, which was very early into the season, after his 6th SHL game. During that stretch there was 9 SHL games played by Leksand. If he didn't get injured he'd maybe play around 5 of those? And he played no J20 games during that stretch.

It wasn't until after the winter break he became a regular in Leksands SHL team where he started to get mostly top-6 ice time.
 

Hinterland

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There's a lot of bad information in your post:

Lian was Leksand's 8D coming into the season: so he didn't get much ice time when he was on the roster(which he wasn't when the team was healthy + they went with more than 12F instead of 8D and such).

The injury you refer to was the one from an CHL game, which was very early into the season, after his 6th SHL game. During that stretch there was 9 SHL games played by Leksand. If he didn't get injured he'd maybe play around 5 of those? And he played no J20 games during that stretch.

It wasn't until after the winter break he became a regular in Leksands SHL team where he started to get mostly top-6 ice time.

Well, he was in the opening night SHL lineup and he did play U20's mostly after the injury, not ahead. The rest is speculation.
 
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Hinterland

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I mean of course he played in J20 mostly after that injury, the season had barely begun!

Yeah, but the post I quoted suggested he started the season with the U20 then got promoted to the SHL which isn't true. He made the SHL team out of camp, got his space in the SHL teams locker room right away and was in the opening night lineup. The rest is speculation but it's likely he'd have played more SHL and less U20 without the injury.
 

Speyer

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Well its a good thing that those discussions where he started are technicalities now. Fact is he is clearly a member of the first team now and most likely won't play any type of junior hockey in his life again, safe the national team. But those discussions sort of make you wonder how much this "scouting websites" really watch all of the players that they cover. As Hinterland correctly pointed out, Bichsel started his season in the SHL. The way I remember it, he played SHL (and CHL) right away and a very limited amount of J20 games in rotation in the first phase of the season before his first injury. And then after the injury he played some more junior games to prepare him for the SHL again. But the claim that he started in juniors and was promoted to the SHL after playing all 11 of his junior games is just incorrect. So if you read that in a scouting report you really have to ask yourself if they followed that players season with due diligence or if they are just repeating some narrative points that they have read elsewhere. I for myself can not agree with a lot of points in the report posted above. For instance the report makes this claim:

"He could stand to improve his stickhandling and puck poise. He is better off making a quick pass to a teammate to start the transition game rather than carrying the puck up the ice."

I won't go into detail why I think this is wrong, I and other users have posted extensively about this in this and other threads. But it is sort of funny that in the same article further below some clipped highlights are posted of Bichsels season. And three out of six of those highlights literally show Bichsel carrying the puck into the offensive zone with his skating. And generally, how much can your really know about a player if you don't even know his name?

#Bischel
 
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Speyer

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Pretty interesting interview by the director of amateur scouting from the Stars. He says they had Bichsel as BPA from where they drafted and they are apparently one of the teams who really believe in his offensive upside. Says his performance in the U18's as an underager put him on the map for their scouts. This outlook and the recent success of Dallas in developing their young players makes me quite optimistic about Bichsels future.
 
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Dr Pepper

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Only the second Swiss-born player ever drafted by the Stars, and their first in about twenty years.

I feel confident that this kid will amount to more than Tobias Stephan ever did. :yo:
 
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Speyer

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Bichsel won't be attending the world juniors because of differences with the SIHF. He wanted to work on his game individually and joining the training camp for the U20's late. The Swiss federation didn't like this and therefore cut him from the roster. This is not the first time this happens. Similar cases happened in the past with guys like Fiala, Malgin and recently Rochette, who would have been a potential player for the tournament as well. The federation is shooting itself in the foot once again. No reason to even watch the WJC from a Swiss perspective at this point as the team won't competitive whatsoever and the coaching staff is terrible.
 
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cg98

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Bichsel won't be attending the world juniors because of differences with the SIHF. He wanted to work on his game individually and joining the training camp for the U20's late. The Swiss federation didn't like this and therefore cut him from the roster. This is not the first time this happens. Similar cases happened in the past with guys like Fiala, Malgin and recently Rochette, who would have been a potential player for the tournament as well. The federation is shooting itself in the foot once again. No reason to even watch the WJC from a Swiss perspective at this point as the team won't competitive whatsoever and the coaching staff is terrible.
Why does the Swiss junior system seem so toxic? It seems players from that nation only develop into better pro players way later on when they're older because of that.
 
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Speyer

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Why does the Swiss junior system seem so toxic? It seems players from that nation only develop into better pro players way later on when they're older because of that.

There is so much wrong with our junior system that a monograph could be written about it. There are two main dimensions to the problem.

The first concerns the Clubs in the NLA. They couldn't care less in developing their junior players because the NLA is the most attractive league in Europe for Imports, especially since the KHL is out of that discussion now for obvious reasons. So they just hire some imports wich are some best players outside the NHL as their "Star Players". Then they scrap together what they can their hands on on the Swiss market on overpriced contracts. Meanwhile they completely neglect their junior teams. (Switzerland has no independent Junior leagues like the US and Canada; every high level junior team is affiliated with a NLA franchise.) For instance they don't spend enough money on junior coaches on the lowest age groups. This means that the coaches that are hired are subpar and not able to teach those kids the fundamentals of hockey properly and they are already getting behind compared to kids from other countries like Sweden, Finnland etc. Part of the problem here is that there are not enough good junior coaches in Switzerland in general and training programs for coaches are subpar. But the NLA clubs have no interest in spending some money to improve those programs, or maybe attract some foreign coaches to mitigate that problem. When it comes to the older age groups, lets say U15 and beyond the coaches are a bit more competent. However at that level they are mostly concerned in winning a junior championship to better their own position and maybe move up in the within their organization. So instead of trying to improve their players individually and foster their creativity they just force them into a defensive system that has a higher chance for team success. Then finally at the pro level, most NLA coaches just flat out refuse to give young players significant ice time. This has a lot to do with the fan culture in our league. If a coach is not successful he will get fired fast. So most coaches don't want to take risks and always play a veteran over a young player so that they cannot be blamed for it if said young player should make a mistake. Lian Bichsel even explicitly said he only moved to Sweden because he knew that he wouldn't get to play a significant role on Biels senior team this season.

The second dimension concerns the Swiss hockey federation. The federation is an old boys club but the main problem is that most of the old boys are incompetent and complacent. They really handle the junior national teams the wrong way. It starts at the U16 level, the youngest age group for the national teams. Here they let the team only play against second, third and fourth tier nations. Germany and Austria are mostly the strongest opponents. There seems to be no incentive from the federation to play the top nations in this age group. So naturally they win most games against those nations, sometimes even by a large amount of goals and without any effort. Instead of competing on the highest level the players basically waste a year.

Just like with the clubs coaching is a huge issue here too. A significant amount of the people working in the federation are former NLA pro players. The coaches for the junior national teams are mostly not hired in regard to competence, but because of the connections they have with the functionaries in the federation. If you want to exaggerate a bit you could say that the functionaries mostly hire their buddies from their playing days. So you get hirings like those of Marco Bayer as the coach for the U20 national team, despite the fact that he had a terrible record in every coaching position he held previously. On top of that coaches that are competent but question the decisions and strategies of the federation like Thierry Paterlini get axed. The current national team coaches are also extremely authoriative towards the players. There are multiple stories circulating that U20 coach Marco Bayer was screaming at players in an overblown fashion, belittling their skills and straight up humiliating them. His predecessor Christian Wohlwend was the same way, maybe even worse. Everyone who observed him in any game behind the bench knows that he is a total nutjob. Finally there are also rumors that the coaches were playing favors when it comes to the roster composition for tournaments like the WJC, Ivan Hlinka Memorial etc. Apparently players that had relatives who knew the coaches or key people in the federation were selected over some other players who were maybe more deserving. I have no hard evidence on that last point but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
 

Torts

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There is so much wrong with our junior system that a monograph could be written about it. There are two main dimensions to the problem.

The first concerns the Clubs in the NLA. They couldn't care less in developing their junior players because the NLA is the most attractive league in Europe for Imports, especially since the KHL is out of that discussion now for obvious reasons. So they just hire some imports wich are some best players outside the NHL as their "Star Players". Then they scrap together what they can their hands on on the Swiss market on overpriced contracts. Meanwhile they completely neglect their junior teams. (Switzerland has no independent Junior leagues like the US and Canada; every high level junior team is affiliated with a NLA franchise.) For instance they don't spend enough money on junior coaches on the lowest age groups. This means that the coaches that are hired are subpar and not able to teach those kids the fundamentals of hockey properly and they are already getting behind compared to kids from other countries like Sweden, Finnland etc. Part of the problem here is that there are not enough good junior coaches in Switzerland in general and training programs for coaches are subpar. But the NLA clubs have no interest in spending some money to improve those programs, or maybe attract some foreign coaches to mitigate that problem. When it comes to the older age groups, lets say U15 and beyond the coaches are a bit more competent. However at that level they are mostly concerned in winning a junior championship to better their own position and maybe move up in the within their organization. So instead of trying to improve their players individually and foster their creativity they just force them into a defensive system that has a higher chance for team success. Then finally at the pro level, most NLA coaches just flat out refuse to give young players significant ice time. This has a lot to do with the fan culture in our league. If a coach is not successful he will get fired fast. So most coaches don't want to take risks and always play a veteran over a young player so that they cannot be blamed for it if said young player should make a mistake. Lian Bichsel even explicitly said he only moved to Sweden because he knew that he wouldn't get to play a significant role on Biels senior team this season.

The second dimension concerns the Swiss hockey federation. The federation is an old boys club but the main problem is that most of the old boys are incompetent and complacent. They really handle the junior national teams the wrong way. It starts at the U16 level, the youngest age group for the national teams. Here they let the team only play against second, third and fourth tier nations. Germany and Austria are mostly the strongest opponents. There seems to be no incentive from the federation to play the top nations in this age group. So naturally they win most games against those nations, sometimes even by a large amount of goals and without any effort. Instead of competing on the highest level the players basically waste a year.

Just like with the clubs coaching is a huge issue here too. A significant amount of the people working in the federation are former NLA pro players. The coaches for the junior national teams are mostly not hired in regard to competence, but because of the connections they have with the functionaries in the federation. If you want to exaggerate a bit you could say that the functionaries mostly hire their buddies from their playing days. So you get hirings like those of Marco Bayer as the coach for the U20 national team, despite the fact that he had a terrible record in every coaching position he held previously. On top of that coaches that are competent but question the decisions and strategies of the federation like Thierry Paterlini get axed. The current national team coaches are also extremely authoriative towards the players. There are multiple stories circulating that U20 coach Marco Bayer was screaming at players in an overblown fashion, belittling their skills and straight up humiliating them. His predecessor Christian Wohlwend was the same way, maybe even worse. Everyone who observed him in any game behind the bench knows that he is a total nutjob. Finally there are also rumors that the coaches were playing favors when it comes to the roster composition for tournaments like the WJC, Ivan Hlinka Memorial etc. Apparently players that had relatives who knew the coaches or key people in the federation were selected over some other players who were maybe more deserving. I have no hard evidence on that last point but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

"We have one in the fourth round too.....one...."
 
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Speyer

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"We have one in the fourth round too.....one...."

I would rate that a 2/10 on the Wohlwend scale of crazy. Sure he completely destroyed his players on Canadian national television and shat all over our hockey program basically but at least he stayed calm. This season he went completely nuts as a coach in the NLA playoffs and threw 2 water bottles at the referees because he didn't like a goal call. Of course he missed both times I mean what do you expect from a guy who stands at 1 career goal in the NLA (as a forward). He also played six games in the 95/96 WJC without registering a point so its not like he has any right to look down on his players. But the sad part is that he still was one of our better junior coaches in the last few years, all things considered...
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

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Awful optics for the Swiss federation. I’m not against the idea of trying to hold players to the same standard, but exceptions have to be made when you have a rare high pick. Fans must already be upset with how few good Swiss players there have been in the last few drafts and one of the few good ones is cut for this stuff. Terrible optics. I’d be furious if I was a fan.
 

BlizzardSloth

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I’d be furious if I was a fan.
Since junior hockey really isn't a thing that people care about in Switzerland (and most of Europe in my understanding), there's not enough public outrage to force a change or anything like that. Most fans only care about the NLA and the senior's national team. I was positively surprised that Bichsel's case even made the news in a significant way.
 

Goodman68

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Jul 11, 2016
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There is so much wrong with our junior system that a monograph could be written about it. There are two main dimensions to the problem.

The first concerns the Clubs in the NLA. They couldn't care less in developing their junior players because the NLA is the most attractive league in Europe for Imports, especially since the KHL is out of that discussion now for obvious reasons. So they just hire some imports wich are some best players outside the NHL as their "Star Players". Then they scrap together what they can their hands on on the Swiss market on overpriced contracts. Meanwhile they completely neglect their junior teams. (Switzerland has no independent Junior leagues like the US and Canada; every high level junior team is affiliated with a NLA franchise.) For instance they don't spend enough money on junior coaches on the lowest age groups. This means that the coaches that are hired are subpar and not able to teach those kids the fundamentals of hockey properly and they are already getting behind compared to kids from other countries like Sweden, Finnland etc. Part of the problem here is that there are not enough good junior coaches in Switzerland in general and training programs for coaches are subpar. But the NLA clubs have no interest in spending some money to improve those programs, or maybe attract some foreign coaches to mitigate that problem. When it comes to the older age groups, lets say U15 and beyond the coaches are a bit more competent. However at that level they are mostly concerned in winning a junior championship to better their own position and maybe move up in the within their organization. So instead of trying to improve their players individually and foster their creativity they just force them into a defensive system that has a higher chance for team success. Then finally at the pro level, most NLA coaches just flat out refuse to give young players significant ice time. This has a lot to do with the fan culture in our league. If a coach is not successful he will get fired fast. So most coaches don't want to take risks and always play a veteran over a young player so that they cannot be blamed for it if said young player should make a mistake. Lian Bichsel even explicitly said he only moved to Sweden because he knew that he wouldn't get to play a significant role on Biels senior team this season.

The second dimension concerns the Swiss hockey federation. The federation is an old boys club but the main problem is that most of the old boys are incompetent and complacent. They really handle the junior national teams the wrong way. It starts at the U16 level, the youngest age group for the national teams. Here they let the team only play against second, third and fourth tier nations. Germany and Austria are mostly the strongest opponents. There seems to be no incentive from the federation to play the top nations in this age group. So naturally they win most games against those nations, sometimes even by a large amount of goals and without any effort. Instead of competing on the highest level the players basically waste a year.

Just like with the clubs coaching is a huge issue here too. A significant amount of the people working in the federation are former NLA pro players. The coaches for the junior national teams are mostly not hired in regard to competence, but because of the connections they have with the functionaries in the federation. If you want to exaggerate a bit you could say that the functionaries mostly hire their buddies from their playing days. So you get hirings like those of Marco Bayer as the coach for the U20 national team, despite the fact that he had a terrible record in every coaching position he held previously. On top of that coaches that are competent but question the decisions and strategies of the federation like Thierry Paterlini get axed. The current national team coaches are also extremely authoriative towards the players. There are multiple stories circulating that U20 coach Marco Bayer was screaming at players in an overblown fashion, belittling their skills and straight up humiliating them. His predecessor Christian Wohlwend was the same way, maybe even worse. Everyone who observed him in any game behind the bench knows that he is a total nutjob. Finally there are also rumors that the coaches were playing favors when it comes to the roster composition for tournaments like the WJC, Ivan Hlinka Memorial etc. Apparently players that had relatives who knew the coaches or key people in the federation were selected over some other players who were maybe more deserving. I have no hard evidence on that last point but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
I was really surprised when I found out. However, I would not see the chances of the Swiss team as low, they were perhaps better than the Czech team in preparation (ok, their attack is very bad this year), they also lost to Finland by only one goal. Recently, Switzerland has a problem with the development of young players and thus also a small number of drafted players, but at the championships, I think their teams are stronger than the paper assumptions.
 

Speyer

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I was really surprised when I found out. However, I would not see the chances of the Swiss team as low, they were perhaps better than the Czech team in preparation (ok, their attack is very bad this year), they also lost to Finland by only one goal. Recently, Switzerland has a problem with the development of young players and thus also a small number of drafted players, but at the championships, I think their teams are stronger than the paper assumptions.

The 02 birth year is actually pretty good for our standards. Knak, Fahrni, Allenspach, Meier and even Delemont are competent players on this level with pro experience. On top of that they are some of the oldest and most seasoned players in the tournament. So I expect a better tournament than the last two years. As soon as next year the prospects will be much bleaker again when the 02's age out. Hopefully the Bichsel situation will be resolved by then. If I was him I would at least consider just staying in the SHL all season after being done dirty like that...
 
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