CXLII - Coyotes agree to play at ASU with $20m annex for next three years.

[fryfunk]

REALLY c'mon this reeks of desperation by the NHL. to keep a failed franchise in market that no one cares about & it would not surprise me in the least that they can't fill a 5000 seat arena & this go to show you that Gary Bettman & most of the NHL. BOG. has turned a once proud & strong league into a laughing stock of the sports world .

May I add this I did some research & I found out that the NHL. only has 5 teams in the top 100 most valuable sports franchises in the world & all 5 teams are at the tale end of that list .

Also lets look at least most valuable franchises by league.
NHL.- Coyotes 285 million
NBA. - Grizzlies 1.3 billion
NFL. - Bills 2.27 billion
MLB.- Marlins 990 million
Soccer -Ajax Amsterdam - 469 million
MLS - Colorado Rapids - 368 million
Boy dose this list must make the NHL. look stupid

That valuation isn't based on the market having that value, that's based on revenue sharing and tv contracts.

The value of a team is a multiple times higher than having a team in a certain city.

Vegas truly negates the yotes value as a television market.

Vegas being a nearby television market and getaway market truly means Arizona has far far less value to television contracts than it did before.

The conspiratorial idea that Bettman/owners are willing to throw away endless money is a moving of the goal posts.

We've known for nearly 30 years the theoretical value of the market was television.

I doubt anyone imagined Vegas would be such an immediate success, nor would they imagine the city would have the potential for long term success.

Vegas pulls off the magic of being a team anyone visiting Vegas can rally around.

 

[LPHabsFan]

Well, for starters, it does silence the "they have to move now if they don't have a place to play in AZ this fall" people. Because they have a place to play this fall. And the next one, and the next one,...like someone in another forum said, some of you will be up to 15 years wasting your life on here waiting for something to happen that never was going to happen, sooo.....

I mean which is better? Talking on a forum about how idiotic the city, team, and league have been for pumping in hundreds of millions of dollars of debt to keep this team afloat knowing they will never, ever, recoup that money and thus creating a chaotic environment not allowing the team to actually make any progress? Or actually following, liking, and spending money on a team that has now surpassed the other teams that were traditionally the laughing stock of all sports due to the above?

I will say that this team has more lives that a dozen cats put together, which is ironic since they're named after a canine, but that's a conversation for another day. But this team will move. Because at the end of the day, the economics don't make sense now, nor have they ever made any sense. When will that happen? Who knows. But it will.

Vegas truly negates the yotes value as a television market. Vegas being a nearby television market and getaway market truly means Arizona has far far less value to television contracts than it did before.

I'm pretty sure that the state of the team and lack of fans over the past what, two decades, has caused that tv market to have less value.

The conspiratorial idea that Bettman/owners are willing to throw away endless money is a moving of the goal posts.

I mean is it moving the goal posts if that's what it's been like for the last 10 years?

We've known for nearly 30 years the theoretical value of the market was television.

At what point does this theory get disproven? How many more years do we need before we can stop with that idiotic hypothesis that this will become a tv driven league via that massive national US TV deal? What else needs to be done that hasn't already? Big markets, non traditional markets, marquee big city teams winning championships, yet it still hasn't happened.

 

[fryfunk]

Did you miss the memo that this is only a temporary solution until their new arena is built?

It's temporary if there's approval from tempe, which was the point.

ASU means almost nothing, it was obviously gonna get approved.

Like I said it's booking a hotel room without finding a super model wanting to share it with you.

The hotel is easy, finding a supermodel that will concent is not.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Remember the chargers playing in a small soccer stadium?? Anyone?

Chargers knew they were moving to SOFI and the shovels were already in the ground. Not the same in Tempe.

 

[Jets4Life]

Do the NHL governors have to approve this move? It makes the NHL look like a bush league. I wish they would just move the franchise to Houston, and resurrect the Coyotes in a few years when the team has stable ownership and a new arena.

 

[Mightygoose]

Do the NHL governors have to approve this move? It makes the NHL look like a bush league. I wish they would just move the franchise to Houston, and resurrect the Coyotes in a few years when the team has stable ownership and a new arena.

Bettman said at the All-Star game that it's acceptable as long as there is a commitment from Tempe. To date there has been none.

How long will the league wait on some form of answer is the next big question. Curious if anyone in the media will be asking this question anytime soon.

 

[fryfunk]

Do the NHL governors have to approve this move? It makes the NHL look like a bush league. I wish they would just move the franchise to Houston, and resurrect the Coyotes in a few years when the team has stable ownership and a new arena.

As much as I have a preference for Quebec, if I have to assume Bettman hates Canada this is still a radical improvement from what we have currently. Putting the brand on hiatus is a multitude better. For the simple fact you can give them a overly generous expansion draft in just a few years. The idea of a team coming back and winning if infinitely more successful than this mess. Especially if you can sell the team for a reasonable amount of money.

I have no problem with a team in Arizona, but that team isn't the coyotes.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

. But this team will move..

And if they don't, you just added what, another 45 minutes of your life into the 'wasted time' column with that essay?

No one believes they have things wrong...dozens of people in here: 'how are they still here?' And yet here they remain.

So perhaps some or all of your assumptions are...gasp...incorrect?

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

They really don't have much of a say in that matter.

Wow, that's...very wrong.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

prove it

Not to steal from your name, but... LMFAO!

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

Do the NHL governors have to approve this move? It makes the NHL look like a bush league. I wish they would just move the franchise to Houston, and resurrect the Coyotes in a few years when the team has stable ownership and a new arena.

The league has too many teams already. We don't need them adding on down the road, no matter where people want them.

 

[MNNumbers]

This used to be a well thought out forum. Not any more....

"Just move the team to Houston." is not really a business comment. Instead, "Just move the team to Houston because Fertitta wants to buy them, and they are going to lose $XX million over the next 4 years, and they will never make it back." would be a business comment.

I am becoming more concerned with the validity of a Houston move. Fertitta hasn't said anything for awhile, althought Bettman was supposed to have seen him recently (does anyone know anything about that?). His most recent public comments, as far as I know, are still of the nature: "We'd love to add hockey, but it has to work for our business situation." I can't believe that adding hockey to Houston greatly increases the amount that can be made at Toyota Center, since in a lot of markets the money is in the arena, and he already has that. So, I am NOT convinced that Houston is a viable option.

On the other hand, Quebec seems to be, in the sense that the government there, even, is campaigning for a team. However, as we all know, Quebec is not a place that the NHL moves to because they 'want' to. It's a place you move to because you have no other choices.

And, that pretty much sums up the situation as far as I can see. There are options besides Quebec. A new arena in Tempe is one possibility. I think Glendale surprised Meruelo by kicking them out, and that is the reason for the ASU situation. For Bettman and BOG to say "No, you can't play there" would be the same as saying "You have to sell for relocation to Quebec" because there aren't any other possibilities right now. And, given that Meruelo bought the team specifically with the idea of a new arena in mind, and everyone knows that, there is really no way that Bettman and/or the BOG is going to force a sale here.

Now, if Tempe doesn't sign an agreement, then it gets more interesting. Because then the question is: How long can Bettman and the BOG wait? How long can Meruelo wait?

My total guess at this point is: He has one year. If nothing is signed in a year, that's the limit. But of course, that's a guess. But I do feel that he is not going to be able to say 'Hey, I am still talking to the tribes and working on something' with nothing firm in hand, in a year.

It's either Tempe works, and soil remediation starts within a year, or Tempe doesn't work and Meruelo has an agreement waiting with the tribes, or it's done.

 

[Yukon Joe]

As promised.......

Cliff's Notes from Craig Morgan's Q&A with ASU Executive Vice President, Treasurer and CFO Morgan Olsen:

-- Accelerated talks began in December 2021, but there had been some communication between ASU and Coyotes prior.
(Olsen indicated Coyotes were also working on other alternatives prior to December 2021)
-- ASU views this as a big plus for them from getting national exposure.
-- ASU built the facility not just for school teams but other uses and the Coyotes are one such usage.
-- ASU's logo will be at center ice, but details still being worked on in regards to rest of advertising etc.
-- Coyotes will get game day revenue, merch revenue, game day sponsorships, and share of game day concession revenue. ASU will have their logos on things and that will go to ASU.
-- Parking revenue goes to ASU. But.... Coyotes may get some premium parking income for suite/prime glass seat customers. Still being worked on.
-- Arena capacity is not finalized. Additional camera angles required for the NHL might eliminates some seating but they don't anticipate it taking many out.
-- All the negative press around the Coyotes is "water under the bridge". ASU and the Coyotes have worked out terms ASU is satisfied doesn't add any risk to them.
-- Optional fourth year in lease has been pre-approved by the ABOR and at ASU's discretion.

-- Arena construction is currently ahead of schedule. Possibly looking at an October opening, but ASU is taking a casual approach and not pressing for it.
On playing games at the arena before the Coyotes' annex is completed (est.: Dec 2022), Olsen indicated they are looking into that, and could work out something that would satisfy all parties (league, PA, etc.)

So three years with an optional fourth year.

Do we have any idea if the Coyotes can leave early, or if there is a penalty involved?

 

[Mightygoose]

This used to be a well thought out forum. Not any more....

"Just move the team to Houston." is not really a business comment. Instead, "Just move the team to Houston because Fertitta wants to buy them, and they are going to lose $XX million over the next 4 years, and they will never make it back." would be a business comment.

I am becoming more concerned with the validity of a Houston move. Fertitta hasn't said anything for awhile, althought Bettman was supposed to have seen him recently (does anyone know anything about that?). His most recent public comments, as far as I know, are still of the nature: "We'd love to add hockey, but it has to work for our business situation." I can't believe that adding hockey to Houston greatly increases the amount that can be made at Toyota Center, since in a lot of markets the money is in the arena, and he already has that. So, I am NOT convinced that Houston is a viable option.

On the other hand, Quebec seems to be, in the sense that the government there, even, is campaigning for a team. However, as we all know, Quebec is not a place that the NHL moves to because they 'want' to. It's a place you move to because you have no other choices.

And, that pretty much sums up the situation as far as I can see. There are options besides Quebec. A new arena in Tempe is one possibility. I think Glendale surprised Meruelo by kicking them out, and that is the reason for the ASU situation. For Bettman and BOG to say "No, you can't play there" would be the same as saying "You have to sell for relocation to Quebec" because there aren't any other possibilities right now. And, given that Meruelo bought the team specifically with the idea of a new arena in mind, and everyone knows that, there is really no way that Bettman and/or the BOG is going to force a sale here.

Now, if Tempe doesn't sign an agreement, then it gets more interesting. Because then the question is: How long can Bettman and the BOG wait? How long can Meruelo wait?

My total guess at this point is: He has one year. If nothing is signed in a year, that's the limit. But of course, that's a guess. But I do feel that he is not going to be able to say 'Hey, I am still talking to the tribes and working on something' with nothing firm in hand, in a year.

It's either Tempe works, and soil remediation starts within a year, or Tempe doesn't work and Meruelo has an agreement waiting with the tribes, or it's done.

This a good train of thought.

I would think too if they had something viable with Fertitta to put them in the Toyota Center, I would think the board would be more favorable to a move there. It wouldn't impact HRR like ASU would, wouldn't need any major upgrades, no concerns from the PA and not contingency on any level of government. I don't think they would want to move there in a temp situation with no path to a new arena. They would be making the same mistake they did while entering the Phoenix market. In that sense it would be better to at least entertain ASU.

Agreed, Quebec is a 'break glass in case' situation and who knows how close they are to going down that route.

How long they wait is the big question which I don't think anyone in the media is willing to ask. Yesterday's news may be too fresh.

 

[aqib]

Its not your money. Mind your business.

If we followed that logic no one should post on this board at all. None of us are sports teams owners (although I did have one share of Boston Celtics stock years ago).

 

[BKIslandersFan]

If we followed that logic no one should post on this board at all. None of us are sports teams owners (although I did have one share of Boston Celtics stock years ago).

Yea I suppose. People getting so emotional about something they have no financial stake in is getting real silly though.

I would like to see them stay, but if they move I ain't losing sleep brother.

I could not give a rats ass if they play in 5000 seat arena or 500 seat arena.

 

[Tawnos]

This used to be a well thought out forum. Not any more....

"Just move the team to Houston." is not really a business comment. Instead, "Just move the team to Houston because Fertitta wants to buy them, and they are going to lose $XX million over the next 4 years, and they will never make it back." would be a business comment.

I am becoming more concerned with the validity of a Houston move. Fertitta hasn't said anything for awhile, althought Bettman was supposed to have seen him recently (does anyone know anything about that?). His most recent public comments, as far as I know, are still of the nature: "We'd love to add hockey, but it has to work for our business situation." I can't believe that adding hockey to Houston greatly increases the amount that can be made at Toyota Center, since in a lot of markets the money is in the arena, and he already has that. So, I am NOT convinced that Houston is a viable option.

On the other hand, Quebec seems to be, in the sense that the government there, even, is campaigning for a team. However, as we all know, Quebec is not a place that the NHL moves to because they 'want' to. It's a place you move to because you have no other choices.

And, that pretty much sums up the situation as far as I can see. There are options besides Quebec. A new arena in Tempe is one possibility. I think Glendale surprised Meruelo by kicking them out, and that is the reason for the ASU situation. For Bettman and BOG to say "No, you can't play there" would be the same as saying "You have to sell for relocation to Quebec" because there aren't any other possibilities right now. And, given that Meruelo bought the team specifically with the idea of a new arena in mind, and everyone knows that, there is really no way that Bettman and/or the BOG is going to force a sale here.

Now, if Tempe doesn't sign an agreement, then it gets more interesting. Because then the question is: How long can Bettman and the BOG wait? How long can Meruelo wait?

My total guess at this point is: He has one year. If nothing is signed in a year, that's the limit. But of course, that's a guess. But I do feel that he is not going to be able to say 'Hey, I am still talking to the tribes and working on something' with nothing firm in hand, in a year.

It's either Tempe works, and soil remediation starts within a year, or Tempe doesn't work and Meruelo has an agreement waiting with the tribes, or it's done.

I would say that, the way Bettman likes things to go, Fertitta being quiet is a good thing for the prospects of Houston. The commissioner and the BoG seem to like the "keep your head down and you'll have a better chance" more than the "actively campaigning" approach.

I was looking at the NHL constitution yesterday (or at least the most recent one I could find which was from 2017) and it seems to me that the only way for the BoG to force an owner out is if the owner defaults on the financial commitments to the league and players, or otherwise outright violate the CBA, by-laws, or constitution. Moving to this temporary arena doesn't really qualify, and if the temporary situation becomes more permanent, the financial commitments part of it will take care of itself.

 

[aqib]

Yea I suppose. People getting so emotional about something they have no financial stake in is getting real silly though.

I would like to see them stay, but if they move I ain't losing sleep brother.

I could not give a rats ass if they play in 5000 seat arena or 500 seat arena.

Yeah that's the essence of sports fandom

 

[aqib]

I would say that, the way Bettman likes things to go, Fertitta being quiet is a good thing for the prospects of Houston. The commissioner and the BoG seem to like the "keep your head down and you'll have a better chance" more than the "actively campaigning" approach.

I was looking at the NHL constitution yesterday (or at least the most recent one I could find which was from 2017) and it seems to me that the only way for the BoG to force an owner out is if the owner defaults on the financial commitments to the league and players, or otherwise outright violate the CBA, by-laws, or constitution. Moving to this temporary arena doesn't really qualify, and if the temporary situation becomes more permanent, with the financial commitments part of it will take care of itself.

Reading between the lines, my guess is Fertitta is like Paul Allen was, he has a price in mind and if it hits that price he is in. Its probably dependent on his sponsorship deals and how much hockey would add. Like when Toyota's naming rights deal expires can he get more if he is has 2 teams in the arena instead of one.

 

[Tawnos]

Reading between the lines, my guess is Fertitta is like Paul Allen was, he has a price in mind and if it hits that price he is in. Its probably dependent on his sponsorship deals and how much hockey would add. Like when Toyota's naming rights deal expires can he get more if he is has 2 teams in the arena instead of one.

I'm sure that's part of it too, but I also think that (like Paul Allen), that price is acceptable to the NHL.

 

[Icedog2735]

What I wonder about is how this arrangement effects the Coyotes ability to construct their roster over this rental period. If the NHLPA furor is to be believed, other than through the draft, will this effect the ability of Arizona to attract and sign FAs over the next 1-3 years? They currently have 15 UFAs and a handful of RFAs this summer, and yes, eventually I'm sure there will be players to take jobs, but if the idea is that this 5000 seat arena could be equivalent, HRR wise, to what the Coyotes were doing in Glendale, one would suppose that means the building would be sold out and the price point on a ticket would be higher than what they are currently. But, even given a closer proximity to their core fan base, will people shell out more money to see what could potentially be an inferior roster to the one on the ice right now? Do they then continue to sell all of those 5000 seats? And at what point does a poor roster and not selling out a down-sized temporary arrangement truly cripple the Coyotes brand in the Valley and amongst the players in the league? Yes, they'll have revenue sharing money but will there be a lack of talent willing to sign a contract there?

 

[TheLegend]

So three years with an optional fourth year.

Do we have any idea if the Coyotes can leave early, or if there is a penalty involved?

I doubt it. ASU will be paid up front. They get all the goodies the Coyotes are adding to their arena. So where would a penalty apply??

 

[fryfunk]

What I wonder about is how this arrangement effects the Coyotes ability to construct their roster over this rental period. If the NHLPA furor is to be believed, other than through the draft, will this effect the ability of Arizona to attract and sign FAs over the next 1-3 years? They currently have 15 UFAs and a handful of RFAs this summer, and yes, eventually I'm sure there will be players to take jobs, but if the idea is that this 5000 seat arena could be equivalent, HRR wise, to what the Coyotes were doing in Glendale, one would suppose that means the building would be sold out and the price point on a ticket would be higher than what they are currently. But, even given a closer proximity to their core fan base, will people shell out more money to see what could potentially be an inferior roster to the one on the ice right now? Do they then continue to sell all of those 5000 seats? And at what point does a poor roster and not selling out a down-sized temporary arrangement truly cripple the Coyotes brand in the Valley and amongst the players in the league? Yes, they'll have revenue sharing money but will there be a lack of talent willing to sign a contract there?

Biggest issue is what kind of agent is gonna trust AM with any kind of long term planning. You're not gonna get many 6-7 year deals and the ones you do get are largely gonna be people wanting to float around enjoying the sun.

 

[TheLegend]

Couldn't generate fans in Phoenix...

Couldn't generate fans in Glendale...

Play at a 5,000 seat arena in Tempe...

???

Profit!

Jesus Christ. End the f***ing experiment in Phoenix. This should cost Bettman his job.

Move the team temporarily to Houston (Toyota Center) or to KC (T-Mobile Center) and have buyers bid for the team. This is so f***ing stupid.

Kind of ironic comments coming a fan of a team who.....


1. Moved away from it's fanbase to playing in a basketball arena.
2. Moved back into their old arena that was repurposed from hockey to concerts until their new arena could be built.

 

[fryfunk]

Kind of ironic comments coming a fan of a team who.....


1. Moved away from it's fanbase to playing in a basketball arena.
2. Moved back into their old arena that was repurposed from hockey to concerts until their new arena could be built.

Islander fans actually exist, there's a radical difference between having fans who don't show up, and having people showing up to your arena who are usually fans of the other team.