Crosby 1 assist in 4 games

[daver]

How is that relevant to this topic?

It's as relevant as Crosby's performance against CBJ two years ago. You chimed in to try to back up the assertion that Crosby only produces against weaker defensive teams in the early rounds is therefore not worthy of being considered for the Top 5 player at any point. I am showing that Crosby has done everything in the playoffs you would want from an a great offensive talent complimented with a solid 2-way game. That'

If you think his statline from the CBJ series wasn't reflective of his performance, I will point to other series where he should have had more points.

This stuff evens out over the course of 13 seasons worth of playoffs.

 

[NoMessi]

It's as relevant as Crosby's performance against CBJ two years ago. You chimed in to try to back up the assertion that Crosby only produces against weaker defensive teams in the early rounds is therefore not worthy of being considered for the Top 5 player at any point. I am showing that Crosby has done everything in the playoffs you would want from an a great offensive talent complimented with a solid 2-way game. That'

If you think his statline from the CBJ series wasn't reflective of his performance, I will point to other series where he should have had more points.

This stuff evens out over the course of 13 seasons worth of playoffs.

How far from the truth. You need a serious diagnosis to put those words in my mouth.

 

[Maple Leaf]

they probably just let them win whatever

 

[daver]

How far from the truth. You need a serious diagnosis to put those words in my mouth.

I assumed you understood the context of my post before you decided to comment.

In any event, Crosby certainly added nothing to his resume this past playoffs. He will have to be content with likely his 7th Hart nomination to bolster his claim as the best player of his era and move closer to #5 all-time.

 

[NoMessi]

I assumed you understood the context of my post before you decided to comment.

In any event, Crosby certainly added nothing to his resume this past playoffs. He will have to be content with likely his 7th Hart nomination to bolster his claim as the best player of his era and move closer to #5 all-time.

You context was irrelevant to what weve been discussing.

 

[daver]

You context was irrelevant to what weve been discussing.

The context was that Crosby feasts on weak goaltending/defensive teams or less relevant first round opponents so your point about CBJ is irrelevant. You only need to look at his point totals in the context of the discussion. He was successful against the #2 defensive team. Your point about his overall is meaningless.

The irony is that now this first round series is apparently relevant moreso than the ones where Crosby dominated.

 

[NoMessi]

The context was that Crosby feasts on weak goaltending/defensive teams or less relevant first round opponents so your point about CBJ is irrelevant. You only need to look at his point totals in the context of the discussion. He was successful against the #2 defensive team. Your point about his overall is meaningless.

The irony is that now this first round series is apparently relevant moreso than the ones where Crosby dominated.

Can you please start quoting me. I mean, nothing you say is relevant to anything im writing.

 

[kugelbahn]

Here are goose-egg percentages for the top guys, ie games without point in playoffs:

Crosby - 36%
Malkin - 38%
OV - 34%
Kane - 36%
Toews - 43%
Kopitar - 37%

 

[KaseMeOutside]

It's a 4 game sample I don't think you can draw much of a conclusion. In a single series great players can be slowed down

However there is a hypocrisy from certain posters who would attack Crosby's peers for having series like this

 

[wetcoast]

Here are goose-egg percentages for the top guys, ie games without point in playoffs:

Crosby - 36%
Malkin - 38%
OV - 34%
Kane - 36%
Toews - 43%
Kopitar - 37%

Pretty sure we will have another thread on these results right?

 

[Lomez]

Threads like these are microcosms for humanity's inevitable failure.

Anonymous people acting like children and reveling in sensationalised nonsense.

Every great player has a bad series or even a few.

It's true of literally every all time great. Past or present.

Just be thankful we get to see players of this caliber on a regular basis.

Wow, we have an adult posting! Nice!

 

[daver]

Do you really want to bring up the first round in 2017 against CBJ when he got destroyed by first Dubinskys line and then Karlssons line? He had one fairly good game, he was one of the worst on the ice for the rest of the series. Ill give you that he was the best player on the ice against Capitals though.

As per your request, here is your first quote.

Your subjective opinion on Crosby's performance has no relevance to the fact that he produced against the #2 defensive team unless we want to look at other series where he did not produce good numbers despite being one of the Pens best players on the ice. The 2016 SCF, like his whole playoffs, saw him play an excellent 2-way game with many clutch plays. The 2009 SCF also comes to mind.

As I said, he has played enough playoff games while being the best offensive and overall player on a team that has had the most success of his era. There should be no doubt that his numbers completely speak for themselves. If there is any player who we can say "singlehandedly" won a series for his team, it's Crosby. Cherrypicking a series or two using hyperbolic words like "destroyed" to try build a narrative looks foolish.

And this does not even get into the fact he has carried lesser talented linemates to help his team create depth, a key in both of their last Cup wins.

 

[daver]

It's actually 4+16=20 and that point total is tied with Gretzky and Hossa for the highest total in SCF since 1987-88 season so in the past 30+ years.

Also I should probably point out that Gordie Howe, consensus top-5 player of all-time, is also sub-PPG in the SCF. And Jean Beliveau, the one player who has widely been regarded as the player Crosby needs to beat to claim that 5th spot, is also sub-PPG in the SCF. Crosby's PPG in the SCF in practically identical with the likes of Maurice Richard and Mark Messier, two other all-time greats, whom many consider as top-10 forwards of all-time. Both of these are considered as superb playoff performers, winners in every definition of the word.

It's easy to throw out Crosby's stat totals and claim that they don't fit a status of someone who should be considered as top-5 player of all-time when not even looking at stats of other players Crosby competes for that claim.

Wait a second, are you telling me that @DickSmehlik did not do any research on the other #5 player candidates before posting? I am schocked.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

That series likely goes the CBJ way if the whistle is blown on the Werenski headshot.

"Headshot"
Framed to insinuate and spun a Pens player hit the poor dude in the head

When in fact a slapshot ramps up his stick and fells him, in which case the ref isn't obligated to blow the whistle until the injured player's team gets possession.

"When a player is injured so that he cannot continue play or go to
his bench, the play shall not be stopped until the injured player’s team
has secured control of the puck. If the player’s team is in control of the
puck at the time of injury, play shall be stopped immediately unless his
team is in a scoring position."

It's ok man, I'm sure next decade you'll get over this loss...

 

[heysmilinstrange]

And this is what Daver does. He swings a debate to something irrelevant. I only stated that he was bad, not how bad or if someone else was worse. I did include that all Penguins players did bad though.

And watch the statline again against CBJ. Im talking about eye-test, but the numbers supported my claim. Its strange that you think he was better than Malkin. Malkin was +7, Crosby was -2. Crosby was a minus player every game except 1, Malkin was a plus player all games except 1 where he was +/- 0. Crosby first played against dubinsky but was demolished and they switched so Karlsson played him, demolished again. Malkin had 11 points, Crosby had 7. Crosby was Terrible - the end. That doesnt mean I think he was terrible for the entire playoffs, I think he was great after the first round. But thats something ive seen plenty of times and no one ever reads that part. Especially Daver ofc.

Calling 7 points in 5 games a "terrible" performance doesn't compute, sorry. It's like when Flyers fans say Couturier shut down Malkin in 2012--he scored 8 points in 6 games that year.

 

[John Price]

Trotzy shut him down. Tip of the cap.

 

[Big Cactus]

He has 186pts in 164gp but yes let’s overreact to the 4 game sample. I’m happy we were able to collect hockey’s greatest minds and create HFBoards.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Trotzy shut him down. Tip of the cap.

Not just Crosby, but the entire Pens team.

I bet if you flipped coaches (Sully coaches the Caps, Trozt in for the Pens) in 2016 and 2017 Trotz wins those series as well.

 

[Sentinel]

I assumed you understood the context of my post before you decided to comment.

In any event, Crosby certainly added nothing to his resume this past playoffs. He will have to be content with likely his 7th Hart nomination to bolster his claim as the best player of his era and move closer to #5 all-time.

How about "he subtracted a tangible something from his resume these playoffs"?

 

[Red Dread]

This just proves that no player can carry a team to a Cup by himself, contrary to what Crosby homers argue.

 

[Beauner]

This just proves that no player can carry a team to a Cup by himself, contrary to what Crosby homers argue.

I've never seen anyone say that

 

[Red Dread]

I've never seen anyone say that

That's a major part of the debate on the threads debating him as a top 5 player. At least that's the implication when people bring up his Gold Medals and Cups as an individual achievement.

 

[bobholly39]

How about "he subtracted a tangible something from his resume these playoffs"?

I don't believe in subtracting for bad performances. I think very few people do that. The problem with this exercise is that every player has bad series/stretches and it's a lot harder to keep track of those, than to just add the positives up.

Maybe if there's a trend with a player you can start subtracting as a negative (example Stamkos with quite a few playoff under performances). Don't think you can say that about Crosby though.

 

[daver]

That's a major part of the debate on the threads debating him as a top 5 player. At least that's the implication when people bring up his Gold Medals and Cups as an individual achievement.

He has a great argument to be heading towards #5 all-time without mentioning whether he has won any Cups or not.

 

[mikeyp24]

"Headshot"
Framed to insinuate and spun a Pens player hit the poor dude in the head

When in fact a slapshot ramps up his stick and fells him, in which case the ref isn't obligated to blow the whistle until the injured player's team gets possession.

"When a player is injured so that he cannot continue play or go to
his bench, the play shall not be stopped until the injured player’s team
has secured control of the puck. If the player’s team is in control of the
puck at the time of injury, play shall be stopped immediately unless his
team is in a scoring position."

It's ok man, I'm sure next decade you'll get over this loss...

Either that game or next a pens player is hit in the back of the head with a puck and goes down they instantly blew the whistle while Z laid in a puddle of blood. Not spun to make it seem intentional just saying the kid had part of his skull broken and they didnt stop it leading directly to a goal and they then changed their own rules literally the very series to instantly blown dead. And Im not made or upset they lost the series it has built character in our team. This moment for the cbj isnt huge if we rightfully won the pens series. That series on the other hand strengthened MAF career and Malkin and Kessel showed to be the most inportant guys on the team yet again cementing their legacy of being the reason Sid could celebrate 2 more trophies.