Prarievarg
On the hype lokomotiv
I'd add Jeník to that "off the table"-list. Maccelli and Prosvetov is also assets I'd like to hold on to.
Rumor: Coyotes Pursuing Taylor Hall per Friedman
- Thread starter RABBIT
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txw
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- Feb 2, 2018
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The package is for sure centered around Kevin Bahl, which I can more than live with.
Darren Farris (Hall's agent) is notorious for making guys wait til the summer to sign, and NJ will block extension talk anyway, til they get 2-3 teams serious and then allow them to go at it - if at all.
So in my eyes, this is a rental until Taylor says so.
Bahl and picks is the package, if I had to put money on it, and Shero is leveraging that deal against other teams to see what we can get.
Darren Farris (Hall's agent) is notorious for making guys wait til the summer to sign, and NJ will block extension talk anyway, til they get 2-3 teams serious and then allow them to go at it - if at all.
So in my eyes, this is a rental until Taylor says so.
Bahl and picks is the package, if I had to put money on it, and Shero is leveraging that deal against other teams to see what we can get.
Kind of a crazy thought, but people constantly compare Chayka to Mike Hazen. After the Dbacks signed bumgarner, I wonder if that gave Chayka more motivation to pull off a big deal to stroke his ego? lol
BUX7PHX
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- Jul 7, 2011
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So, if it doesn't matter either way, why not try getting Hall and seeing if we can get enough of a run to where he is interested in re-signing here?
MIGs Dog
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- Jan 3, 2012
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Over the past two seasons (63 games) Hall has scored at a rate of 0.27 goals per game; essentially 22 goals per 82 game season. He also put up 45 assists.
Some debate about whether Hall is a superstar. I'd say he certainly was...he received the Hart trophy only 2 seasons ago after all, but which Hall will we get?
28 years for a human is not normally considered old, but when the last 10 of those years involves playing in the NHL, a few surgeries, numerous injuries...28 can feel VERY old.
I think any team acquiring Hall should assume they are getting a 20 goal scorer and a good play maker that should make those around him better. If he delivers more it's gravy.
Bottom line: Don't overpay and have realistic expectations.
Some debate about whether Hall is a superstar. I'd say he certainly was...he received the Hart trophy only 2 seasons ago after all, but which Hall will we get?
28 years for a human is not normally considered old, but when the last 10 of those years involves playing in the NHL, a few surgeries, numerous injuries...28 can feel VERY old.
I think any team acquiring Hall should assume they are getting a 20 goal scorer and a good play maker that should make those around him better. If he delivers more it's gravy.
Bottom line: Don't overpay and have realistic expectations.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
If it’s a futures package we are going to have serious cap problems this season. We can’t afford Hall even with maximum retention. And if New Jersey retains the max, that’s not free. They're going to want payment in assets for managing our cap for us.
A secondary consideration is what happens when Hossa comes off the IR this summer and we’re trying to extend Hall. You can exceed the cap in the summer, but Hossa being back off IR and Hall wanting 9+ million is going to cause some serious headaches.
The obvious solution is to pawn Hossa off on New Jersey. If they’re selling their best forward for pure futures, they won’t care about that cap space this summer. But they’re not going to do it for free. They’re going to want assets.
So if you think we can get Taylor Hall for a 2nd round pick and Kevin Bahl (I think that’s wishful thinking personally) how much do we have to add to the deal to get them to retain 50% Hall and take Hossa back? Each of those things might be worth a 2nd rounder a piece.
A secondary consideration is what happens when Hossa comes off the IR this summer and we’re trying to extend Hall. You can exceed the cap in the summer, but Hossa being back off IR and Hall wanting 9+ million is going to cause some serious headaches.
The obvious solution is to pawn Hossa off on New Jersey. If they’re selling their best forward for pure futures, they won’t care about that cap space this summer. But they’re not going to do it for free. They’re going to want assets.
So if you think we can get Taylor Hall for a 2nd round pick and Kevin Bahl (I think that’s wishful thinking personally) how much do we have to add to the deal to get them to retain 50% Hall and take Hossa back? Each of those things might be worth a 2nd rounder a piece.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
I’d put the probability of Antti Raanta signing another contract with the Coyotes at about zero percent. If we don’t trade him at some point, he’s going to be a Coyote for a maximum of 1.5 seasons.
That puts him on the block for me. Yes, having Raanta and Kuemper makes us unique. It’s a unique advantage. But without Raanta, do we suddenly have bad goaltending? No. Goaltending is a huge strength of our team with or without Raanta. That’s what we call a luxury.
So goaltending is not a weakness either way. What is a weakness on this team? Scoring obviously. Pretty clearly, right? I don’t know about you guys, but I’m seeing a pretty clear solution materializing in front of my eyes.
The only question is; what’s the market for Raanta? Can he actually be the centerpiece of a trade for a bonafide goal scorer?
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
I guess you missed the part where they’re eating 50% on Hall plus Hossa’s dead cap? That ain’t free, my man.
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Then at the draft when we are absolutely over a barrel, we look to unload Hossa and get absolutely killed?
This might be a good opportunity to get out from under Hossa a little cheaper.
Coyote clunker against the Devils Sat night may be in part due to the trade rumors.
Chayka at the point of telling Shero, this is final offer (whatever it is) and needs to be completed in next 24 hours? Don't think Chayka likes being a pawn in NJ's attempts to acquire a better deal, if AZ is the only offer on the table.
Really hope by puck drop tomorrow night in SJ this situation is resolved one way or the other.
Chayka at the point of telling Shero, this is final offer (whatever it is) and needs to be completed in next 24 hours? Don't think Chayka likes being a pawn in NJ's attempts to acquire a better deal, if AZ is the only offer on the table.
Really hope by puck drop tomorrow night in SJ this situation is resolved one way or the other.
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rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
I think Hall will go to Calgary and keep the momentum going up there and they’ll continue to rocket up the Pacific standings.
He’s got motivation to re-sign there being that it’s his hometown and he’d like to stick it to Edmonton.
They’re in desperate need of positive press and this would be huge news up there. It would all but erase the coaching debacle. And they know they’re probably just a Hall away from locking up their division.
He’s got motivation to re-sign there being that it’s his hometown and he’d like to stick it to Edmonton.
They’re in desperate need of positive press and this would be huge news up there. It would all but erase the coaching debacle. And they know they’re probably just a Hall away from locking up their division.
RABBIT
wasn’t gonna be a fan but Utalked me into it
Florida no longer in the mix according to Lebrun, likely leaving the race down to us, the Avs, the Blues, and Calgary. Maybe Edmonton.
Lebrun says that he hears that teams interested want an answer soon
Lebrun says that he hears that teams interested want an answer soon
moosemeister
5,000 strong
Calgary isn't his hometown though. I believe he was just born there but grew up in Kingston.
I don't think salary retention adds to trade value. It's just a tool to accommodate a deal. Look at the Yandle to NYR deal. We retained max value and I don't believe we got anything added for that. I think we'll move out Hinostroza to make the remaining dollars work.
Edit: If we're sending them Hossa then yes we'll have to pay for that.
I don't think salary retention adds to trade value. It's just a tool to accommodate a deal. Look at the Yandle to NYR deal. We retained max value and I don't believe we got anything added for that. I think we'll move out Hinostroza to make the remaining dollars work.
Edit: If we're sending them Hossa then yes we'll have to pay for that.
Because I have a short memory and haven't felt this good about the current state of this franchise in the 14 years I've lived here. I've seen too many teams make this mistake far too often all for a shiny new piece that doesn't fit at the cost of too much. How will it feel in two years if Jenik and Bahl are blasting off in New Jersey and we are outside of a wildcard spot in March without a draft pick. Hall could be a 31 year old winger that's declining if he's even still here. Just my opinion but that's why and that is how I see this unfolding.
_Del_
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2003
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No, he's not. Goaltenders always hold poor trade value. We have to move salary anyway; Raanta is gone this summer at latest anyway. We're not going to carry him on an expiring contract, and the best time to move a goalie is generally the summer. But we've got a unique opportunity to include him to a team in need of goaltending, and squeeze value out.
So basically throw him in and make them take Hossa. Bahl, conditional pick, Raanta, Hossa.
Clears cap for Hall with or without retention. A unique sweetner that other teams cannot match right now. Makes it easier for them to say yes. And since we need to move Hossa and Raanta later anyway, and their value probably roughly evens out... Well, it works out fine fine to me. Even as a rental. It just seems like a lot.
Chayka on 910 just now:
On Trade discussion:
Tough to comment on any specific trade rumors
I take direction from players on what trying to do
My role is take the direction to improve our group
If something makes sense to add to the group, I'm open to it.
That said, a lot of things said are not reported
Good in short-term, but also long-term
Everything I've done has been a risk, but a calculated risk
Early on in the season, long way to go
My job is to balance short and long-term
No deals ever done until they're done
Number of discussions going on with trade freeze coming
99% of discussions don't turn into deals
We made some offers we're willing to execute on
2 sided discussion - can't speak for other teams
On Trade discussion:
Tough to comment on any specific trade rumors
I take direction from players on what trying to do
My role is take the direction to improve our group
If something makes sense to add to the group, I'm open to it.
That said, a lot of things said are not reported
Good in short-term, but also long-term
Everything I've done has been a risk, but a calculated risk
Early on in the season, long way to go
My job is to balance short and long-term
No deals ever done until they're done
Number of discussions going on with trade freeze coming
99% of discussions don't turn into deals
We made some offers we're willing to execute on
2 sided discussion - can't speak for other teams
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I worry about out young GM making a mistake with what he gives up for Hall. Most of the time this doesn't work for the team acquiring the high end rental. If Hall plays well, it increases his value and leverage as a UFA regardless of if we win a round in the playoffs or not. If he plays poorly, he doesn't help us like Kessel right now. Chayka is capable of making a big mistake here. I like Hall a lot, but I liked Kessel too, I would pass, it might be risky to extend him if he is on the downside of his career now. keep in mind, the NHL is getting younger.
MIGs Dog
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2012
- 14,591
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Chayka not talking specifics...no surprise.
“tough to comment on any specific trade rumors”
“if something makes sense I’m open to it”
“some things come up that maybe aren’t true’
“looking at everything if good fit for organization”
“will be very disciplined in our approach”
“balance short term and long term”
If you have watched Bahl he’s going to take a minimum of 3-4 years before he sniffs the roster. Yes he has upside but he has tons of development ahead if he’s going to be more than just a 7-8th Mark Tinordi D man and that’s a big (pardon the pun) IF he’s even capable of developing to that level.
1st rounder is in the 20’s right now. If that’s the cost for a Taylor Hall then I’d pay it. That pick could be the next Merkley, Fischer, or Visentin.
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