Speculation: Coyotes 2021 Offseason Roster Discussion Thread #5

[Mangosteen]

He’s saying -8 wins from last seasons wins/82 pace? That was 35 for us. So predicting 27 for next season?

Don’t take the fun out of my sulking with facts

Only reason it’s only -8 is because that’s as low as his chart can go ha ha ha.

but on a serious note I do believe we will be between 30 and 40 points

 

[rt]

NYR fan coming in peace. What would ARI want from the rangers in return for DVO. I think him and Chytil being interchangeable between the 2-3 center positions for the next couple years can really help them take a step fwd. At best Dvorak and Panarin hit it off and he finds another offensive gear as a 2C with a solid deal and solid age fit for our team. At worst he drops to 3C and the rangers replicate Tampa’s 3rd line as DVo assumes a Yani Gourde role.
It seems to me the Yotes are in full tank mode for the next 2 drafts. Hopefully after all those moves maybe they can convince Matthews to come home in Free Agency.... but that’s a long ways off yet.
It seems having DVo would hurt the Yotes draft position more then help it, but it’s important to stay competitive, you can’t let that losing culture get dug in, it’s hard to get out if that happens.
I assume the NYR 1st next year, Georgiev to pair with Hutton would be an upgrade?
What else would you be looking for?
RD/LD? We have quite a few solid top 4 and beyond prospects?
We can however, include strome and you could flip him for more assets at the deadline. He’s a UFA making 4.5 mill this season, he brings back a 2nd plus prospect easily... thoughts??
Odds are he bolts before or right as you guys start turning the corner on his next deal???

My expectation is that the Dvorak trade return would have to be something almost as good as Dylan Guenther and also clearly superior to Conor Timmins and the unconditional 2022 Avalanche 1st.

If the trade is with the Rangers, I think one of Nils Lundkvist, Zac Jones or Braden Schneider would have to be in the deal. I do like the Georgiev idea. And I'd consider trading our 3rd round (very early) for him, or possibly even the Islanders 2nd (very late). But I obviously don't view Georgiev as a principle piece of a Dvorak trade. It would have to be one of those top, top prospects the Rangers have in the top 1-3 of their pool.

 

[jay from jersey]

My expectation is that the Dvorak trade return would have to be something almost as good as Dylan Guenther and also clearly superior to Conor Timmins and the unconditional 2022 Avalanche 1st.

If the trade is with the Rangers, I think one of Nils Lundkvist, Zac Jones or Braden Schneider would have to be in the deal. I do like the Georgiev idea. And I'd consider trading our 3rd round (very early) for him, or possibly even the Islanders 2nd (very late). But I obviously don't view Georgiev as a principle piece of a Dvorak trade. It would have to be one of those top, top prospects the Rangers have in the top 1-3 of their pool.

I could possibly see NYR 1st ( unconditional), Jones, and Georgiev going for Dvorak. It’s a lot, but he’s worth it.
Jones is in the Adam fox mold and can play LD/RD. I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as fox defensively, but offensively he absolutely can be.
Would be a great partner with Chychrun for years, that’s for sure.
I think rangers hold on to Schneider as a Trouba replacement, but with Lundkvist and Fox possessing the same skill set / size roughly as Jones, NYR might let him loose to upgrade at Center.

 

[rt]

Don’t take the fun out of my sulking with facts

Only reason it’s only -8 is because that’s as low as his chart can go ha ha ha.

The chart goes to eight because of the Coyotes. Which is maybe even more depressing, haha.

27 wins is horrendous, though. If you look at all of the 82 games seasons (six) played between the lockout and the pandemic ('13/'14 - 18'19) here are the bottom 10 teams in wins:

1. BUF - 21
2. COL - 22
3. BUF - 23
4. EDM - 24
5. ARI - 24
6. BUF - 25
7. NJD - 28
8. OTT - 28
9. MTL - 29
10.OTT-29

So 27 wins is really, really, really bad. Teams don't really get a whole lot worse than that.

 

[rt]

I could possibly see NYR 1st ( unconditional), Jones, and Georgiev going for Dvorak. It’s a lot, but he’s worth it.
Jones is in the Adam fox mold and can play LD/RD. I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as fox defensively, but offensively he absolutely can be.
Would be a great partner with Chychrun for years, that’s for sure.

I don't love the proposal, personally. I think the fewer assets coming back in a Dvorak trade, the better the deal is for us. I'd love to just do Dvorak for Zary, 1:1 as an example.

Now having said all of that, I think it's good value and is something I could potentially see Arizona agreeing to. Especially since it likely represents two roster players in Jones and Georgiev that Arizona really could use both right now, and over the long-term. And while I'm less enamored with picks, and prefer prospects due to the timeline factor, our front-office is all amateur scouts. It's like a clubhouse of amateur scouts doing fantasy camp. And they LOVE picks. So I think that first is very tempting to them. More than it is for me.

So I'll say that you've put together a very solid proposal, that seems pretty realistic, and I could definitely see it happening.

Side Note: I wonder if Kevin Rooney could be included? Arizona's center depth is bad as it is. Losing Dvorak would make is shockingly bad. If we could at least get a roster center back, that would help. I know he's just a 4th liner, so it doesn't make or break things.

 

[jay from jersey]

I don't love the proposal, personally. I think the fewer assets coming back in a Dvorak trade, the better the deal is for us. I'd love to just do Dvorak for Zary, 1:1 as an example.

Now having said all of that, I think it's good value and is something I could potentially see Arizona agreeing to. Especially since it likely represents two roster players in Jones and Georgiev that Arizona really could use both right now, and over the long-term. And while I'm less enamored with picks, and prefer prospects due to the timeline factor, our front-office is all amateur scouts. It's like a clubhouse of amateur scouts doing fantasy camp. And they LOVE picks. So I think that first is very tempting to them. More than it is for me.

So I'll say that you've put together a very solid proposal, that seems pretty realistic, and I could definitely see it happening.

Side Note: I wonder if Kevin Rooney could be included? Arizona's center depth is bad as it is. Losing Dvorak would make is shockingly bad. If we could at least get a roster center back, that would help. I know he's just a 4th liner, so it doesn't make or break things.

I think the Rooney addition would be possible, but not likely since we protected him over blackwell in ex draft. We do have Justin Richards in The A who could fill the role, as well as Morgan Barron. So I doubt it would be a deal breaker.
I’d love to have Crouse come back, but that might be too big of an ask. Think he would flourish on a bottom 6 role under Gallant
I know your not crazy about picks but these next 2 drafts are the ones where you def want extras. Besides Wright and Bedard there are some real difference makers in these 2 drafts both deep with high end talent

 

[hbk]

And why on earth are we even entertaining trading him.

Next to Chychrun he’s the next best thing we’ve got with that contract and production.

I’m with you. Unless it’s an offer with an A prospect and a 1st round pick that knocks our socks off there is little interest from me on dealing Dvorak.

 

[rt]

I think the Rooney addition would be possible, but not likely since we protected him over blackwell in ex draft. We do have Justin Richards in The A who could fill the role, as well as Morgan Barron. So I doubt it would be a deal breaker.
I’d love to have Crouse come back, but that might be too big of an ask. Think he would flourish on a bottom 6 role under Gallant
I know your not crazy about picks but these next 2 drafts are the ones where you def want extras. Besides Wright and Bedard there are some real difference makers in these 2 drafts both deep with high end talent

I think the Coyotes need to look elsewhere for center depth probably. They save enough cash doing Dvorak for Jones, Georgiev and the 1st that they should be able to sufficiently overpay Zack Smith and/or Riley Sheahan to bribe them into signing on for this mess.

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

Jones is in the Adam fox mold and can play LD/RD. I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as fox defensively, but offensively he absolutely can be.
Would be a great partner with Chychrun for years, that’s for sure.

Chychrun needs a defensively strong partner - not one that is an offensive minded guy. So I'm not sure about that rationale.

Rangers have some great prospects and it seems they could win any bidding war if they choose to. As has been said you dont usually get to trade for a 25 year old 200 foot player on a good contract.

 

[cobra427]

The chart goes to eight because of the Coyotes. Which is maybe even more depressing, haha.

27 wins is horrendous, though. If you look at all of the 82 games seasons (six) played between the lockout and the pandemic ('13/'14 - 18'19) here are the bottom 10 teams in wins:

1. BUF - 21
2. COL - 22
3. BUF - 23
4. EDM - 24
5. ARI - 24
6. BUF - 25
7. NJD - 28
8. OTT - 28
9. MTL - 29
10.OTT-29

So 27 wins is really, really, really bad. Teams don't really get a whole lot worse than that.

I bet we set the record and win 20 or less, thats how bad we are now. We risk ruining the morale and value of Chych/DVO/Schmaltz/Kelller. We need like 65 points, that gets us a good shot at the lottery but we still are the worst team in the NHL. the problem is its looking like under 50 points to me. NHL teams do not win with all young unproven players, it has never happened. The tank BA is orchestrating is too big now, he needs to get a few decent vets, to get us above 60 points.

 

[jay from jersey]

Chychrun needs a defensively strong partner - not one that is an offensive minded guy. So I'm not sure about that rationale.

Rangers have some great prospects and it seems they could win any bidding war if they choose to. As has been said you dont usually get to trade for a 25 year old 200 foot player on a good contract.

I see, still bet Jones would be a mainstay on the Yotes Top 4 D for years.
Plus if he hits his ceiling, you’d have an elite PP QB locked up for pretty cheap for a long time

 

[YotesFan47]

NYR and MTL are the two most interesting partners to me.

Jones is fine but not all that interesting to me. I'd prefer Hajek and I'd imagine we could extrapolate more value out of NY if he was our choice. Hajek + Gettinger + Georgiev + 1st (unprotected). Gettinger has grown on me and he's a big boy that could prove a very valuable middle six winger in a year or two if he takes his physical play up a notch or 2.

Montreal is funny because they have no cap space until the season starts and they can put Price and Weber on LTIR. Drouin + Byron + Kotkaniemi + Poehling + 1st for Dvorak + Crouse + 2nd (condition: lowest 2nd we have at the end of the year) would work for me. Not sure if Montreal cares about dumping and would probably then need to find a Kotkaniemi replacement. I'm also not sure if Byron raised his stock due to his strong playoff appearance, I think he'd make a nice addition to our bottom 6 though.

Dvorak for Kotkaniemi
Crouse for Drouin + 1st
Conditional 2nd for Byron + Poehling

Keller - Kotkaniemi - Kessel (Not intentional KKK, trying to line up skill sets as best I can)
Drouin - Schmaltz - Jaskin
Dzingel - Poehling - Byron
Roussel - Larsson - Fisher

Chychrun - Stralman
Gostisbehere - Lyubushkin
Provolnev - Timmins

Hutton

We could probably still go out and get Georgiev relatively cheap to finish out the roster.

 

[jay from jersey]

NYR and MTL are the two most interesting partners to me.

Jones is fine but not all that interesting to me. I'd prefer Hajek and I'd imagine we could extrapolate more value out of NY if he was our choice. Hajek + Gettinger + Georgiev + 1st (unprotected). Gettinger has grown on me and he's a big boy that could prove a very valuable middle six winger in a year or two if he takes his physical play up a notch or 2.

Montreal is funny because they have no cap space until the season starts and they can put Price and Weber on LTIR. Drouin + Byron + Kotkaniemi + Poehling + 1st for Dvorak + Crouse + 2nd (condition: lowest 2nd we have at the end of the year) would work for me. Not sure if Montreal cares about dumping and would probably then need to find a Kotkaniemi replacement. I'm also not sure if Byron raised his stock due to his strong playoff appearance, I think he'd make a nice addition to our bottom 6 though.

Dvorak for Kotkaniemi
Crouse for Drouin + 1st
Conditional 2nd for Byron + Poehling

Keller - Kotkaniemi - Kessel (Not intentional KKK, trying to line up skill sets as best I can)
Drouin - Schmaltz - Jaskin
Dzingel - Poehling - Byron
Roussel - Larsson - Fisher

Chychrun - Stralman
Gostisbehere - Lyubushkin
Provolnev - Timmins

Hutton

We could probably still go out and get Georgiev relatively cheap to finish out the roster.

you definitely don’t want Hajek over Jones, but If you did, I’m sure the rangers would love that. Hell they would prob trade you both. Unless Hajek takes a pretty big step he’s not more then a 7th D. He’s been passed by many on the depth chart.
Don’t think Montreal would send that many pieces for DVo n Crouse, but I could be wrong

 

[rt]

I don’t think Hajek is expected to turn out to be much. Rangers fans seem to have a very low opinion of him.

 

[jay from jersey]

I don’t think Hajek is expected to turn out to be much. Rangers fans seem to have a very low opinion of him.

He came up and was excellent. He had suffered a shoulder injury and hasn’t been the same player since. This is going on a year and a half to almost 2 years ago now.
Gettinger is fine. He’s very big and has pretty decent hands but he’s not physical. He’ll use his size to protect the puck but not hit. He still has potential to be a useful bottom 6 guy, mainly 4th liner

 

[YotesFan47]

you definitely don’t want Hajek over Jones, but If you did, I’m sure the rangers would love that. Hell they would prob trade you both. Unless Hajek takes a pretty big step he’s not more then a 7th D. He’s been passed by many on the depth chart.
Don’t think Montreal would send that many pieces for DVo n Crouse, but I could be wrong

That trade is completely dependent on Montreal and their cap situation. I don't know that it's good or bad but that trade take the assumption that they want to add space.

I actually didn't realize Hajek had stopped progressing. I loved him his draft year and was under the impression that he had been progressing still. That knowledge would definitely change things in favor of Jones.

 

[rt]

Chychrun needs a defensively strong partner - not one that is an offensive minded guy. So I'm not sure about that rationale.

Rangers have some great prospects and it seems they could win any bidding war if they choose to. As has been said you dont usually get to trade for a 25 year old 200 foot player on a good contract.

If you're talking long, long-term, I think Soderstrom has to be the guy you pencil in as Chychrun's partner. Soderstrom is a smooth, smart, competitive, two-way puck mover, who's highly regarded for what he does outside of putting up points. I think Timmins is seen as a two-way guy now, too. He's a bigger dude, who's supposed to be defensively responsible, as well as talented. So as much as it's completely crazy to put together pairings that would be like years down the line, I think the idea would be something like:

Chychrun-Soderstrom
Z. Jones - C. Timmins

 

[jay from jersey]

If you're talking long, long-term, I think Soderstrom has to be the guy you pencil in as Chychrun's partner. Soderstrom is a smooth, smart, competitive, two-way puck mover, who's highly regarded for what he does outside of putting up points. I think Timmins is seen as a two-way guy now, too. He's a bigger dude, who's supposed to be defensively responsible, as well as talented. So as much as it's completely crazy to put together pairings that would be like years down the line, I think the idea would be something like:

Chychrun-Soderstrom
Z. Jones - C. Timmins

that could be a very potent top 4 for a long time. I could see the Yotes also being interested in Gauthier. He’s still pretty young, very big very fast, and good hands. He lead the AHL in goals a few years ago with the canes. This poor kid is blocked every which way from getting more then a 5-8 game clip at a time to get rolling. He’s still very cheap too.
Quinn has his favorites and would always wind up scratching Gauthier in favor of worse players. He has top 9 skill and needs top 9 minutes with talented players. Wouldn’t surprise me if he became a 20/20 3rd line wing with size and speed. He’s Kreider fast.

 

[rt]

Gauthier’s uncle is a former Yote. Thickest neck in the history of the franchise. Garland has the longest neck.

 

[RemoAZ]

With a normal sized neck Garland is 5'2".

 

[XX]

Carter Hutton is still the projected starter and that's just not acceptable.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Carter Hutton is still the projected starter and that's just not acceptable.

He won't be the starter...he was brought in to play the backup roll...BA has something in the works for Dubnyk or a trade to get an upgrade I'm sure. If not, well, don't know what to say other than it would be the most glaring "tank" job ever. You could make a case in all the recent trades that we got overpayment, so it could be rationalized, but can't see Hutton being the starter.

 

[rt]

Carter Hutton is still the projected starter and that's just not acceptable.

I’m just grumpy we didn’t jump on Vanecek.

 

[Painful Quandary]

He won't be the starter...he was brought in to play the backup roll...BA has something in the works for Dubnyk or a trade to get an upgrade I'm sure. If not, well, don't know what to say other than it would be the most glaring "tank" job ever. You could make a case in all the recent trades that we got overpayment, so it could be rationalized, but can't see Hutton being the starter.

I hope you are right. Hutton as starter is something that could hurt the confidence of the team that is already going to go through a painful season. Dubnyk is a good enough goalie to not shake the team's confidence while not being too good to upset the tank. Even better would be if Armstrong could get Edmonton to pay to dump Koskinen, but I don't see that happening this far into the off season.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Signing dubnyk isn’t much better than keeping Hutton. It’s still indicative of bringing in a crappy goalie to play just not well enough so that we lose constantly.

Trading for someone like Georgiev just makes so much sense. He wants a starting job and there isn’t a better opportunity for one than on the coyotes. And even if he isn’t great (which he likely won’t be behind our current defense) he’d likely still show enough of something that we keep him around to shepherd in Prosvetov, and he would grow with our super young top 4