OT: Covid-19 (Part 44) Closer Together

[OnTheRun]

Were they really expected to go up in late July/early August?? Not as far as I was aware. All the talk of 4th waves was related to schools reopening, weather getting colder and people moving indoors. So I don’t think we can just dismiss the numbers. If they’re being driven by delta then I feel as though it needs to be discussed and potentially addressed.

I still think Canada have a winning hand to handle the 4th wave, altho, Alberta seems to be determined to make me lie here.

We still need more adult to act like adult by getting the jab. The more is better, this is the best tool we have to get through this with a minimal amount of issues.

 

[Fixxer]

I still think Canada have a winning hand to handle the 4th wave, altho, Alberta seems to be determined to make me lie here.

We still need more adult to act like adult by getting the jab. The more is better, this is the best tool we have to get through this with a minimal amount of issues.

It's ok to disagree with those who did not take the vaccine, but dissing them as not being adults isn't exactly the way to convince them otherwise.

 

[Kriss E]

It's ok to disagree with those who did not take the vaccine, but dissing them as not being adults isn't exactly the way to convince them otherwise.

A lot of them act like spoiled kids though so it's pretty justified.

 

[Fixxer]

It’s a dis to responsible children.

Some kids are smart and some just dis others.

If they aren’t convinced by now, a new tactic is needed. The carrot hasn’t worked. Education hasn’t worked.

So... just start curtailing what they can do. Limit their contagion by banning them from airports and large gatherings. Allow employers to demand vaccination as a requirement of in office employment.

Selfish people are only going to get vaccinated for selfish purposes. So, use the stick instead of the carrot.

The stick was used from the start. If you look in history, all kind of tactics were used in order to get people to bow down. Physical harm are mostly reported these days (good), but there is more psychological attacks, indirect, kinda like the advertisements of Covid everywhere, that subtle subconcious hypnosis by being overloaded by some info. It's like cooperating with the guy who has you on hold-up. (a documentary of the same name with lots of medical experts, but they are denied because they don't work for the right doctors association etc. Not profitting the pharm industries.

Not just these guys. Others arguing this is about governmental control and a mass international plot, repeating how this vaccine was quickly produced without understanding why, etc.
They don't want the vaccine..fine..don't take it. But don't go around arguing like this is an evil plot or blablabla.

It's not like, if you don't want the vaccine, don't take it. LOL -- Look how it's became an outrage that someone didn't have his shot. That's also selfish to call out people who don't act in line with your values. I am as respectful as it gets in normal settings, but some stuff goes overboard, as to how those who dictate on others, I mean, some who think that their way of doing and thinking gives them the right to judge, criticize, belittle others. In fact, it seems like the people who want to portray that perfect image are the first to point fingers. Anyway, hope that is it and anyway, I know if we don't conform to the narrative, we are either pushed aside or silenced. It is what it is, everything has a price in life.

 

[Ozmodiar]

It's ok to disagree with those who did not take the vaccine, but dissing them as not being adults isn't exactly the way to convince them otherwise.

It’s a dis to responsible children.

 

[Fixxer]

It’s a dis to responsible children.

Some kids are smart and some just dis others.

 

[OnTheRun]

It's ok to disagree with those who did not take the vaccine, but dissing them as not being adults isn't exactly the way to convince them otherwise.

It's not like telling them to clear up any concern they have with the vaccine with their doctor instead of watching youtube video is going to convince them either.

They know they won't get the answer they want to hear from their doctor, that's why they do "research" on youtube to begin with.

 

[BozoTheClown]

Americans falsifying vaccination documents to enter Canada. They were fined, but I also hope that they are banned for a minimum of 10 years to enter our country. Oh! And f*** you!

The borders opens in less than a week.

 

[Fixxer]

It's not like telling them to clear up any concern they have with the vaccine with their doctor instead of watching youtube video is going to convince them either.

They know they won't get the answer they want to hear from their doctor, that's why they do "research" on youtube to begin with.

My first YouTube searches were when I could tell there was contradictory mentions by the people of the public health, to begin with. There is misinformation on both sides I believe, but anyway, I don't search for info and I avoid the media, newspaper, the radio, and usually clickbaits articles, all psychological sources of COVID, but they are all over the place these days.

 

[waffledave]

It's ok to disagree with those who did not take the vaccine, but dissing them as not being adults isn't exactly the way to convince them otherwise.

I have no problem at all with someone who refuses the vaccine, as long as they continue to mask up, avoid public places as much as possible, avoid gyms/restaurants/leisure activities that can result in spreading the virus, keeps their kids at home, etc... If you are scared of the vaccine, stay home, simple as that. For the last year and a half I keep hearing "if you are scared of the virus, stay home." What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

 

[Fixxer]

Kinda mean to want people to stay indoor like they are in a cell. The latest times have changed the perception of many and divisions are indeed necessary to avoid clashes between opinions, it seems.

 

[Fixxer]

I have no problem at all with someone who refuses the vaccine, as long as they continue to mask up, avoid public places as much as possible, avoid gyms/restaurants/leisure activities that can result in spreading the virus, keeps their kids at home, etc... If you are scared of the vaccine, stay home, simple as that. For the last year and a half I keep hearing "if you are scared of the virus, stay home." What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

I'm happy that I don't stress as much as some other people over this stuff. Scared of the vaccine, I just don't like being "forced" on doing something, especially coming from the same people that weren't examples to follow before this virus came up. I can also see the narrative caused you to see me as an enemy.

 

[Andy]

I'm happy that I don't stress as much as some other people over this stuff. Scared of the vaccine, I just don't like being "forced" on doing something, especially coming from the same people that weren't examples to follow before this virus came up. I can also see the narrative caused you to see me as an enemy.

Do you refuse to get a license to drive your car?

Are you bothered that unless you have parents that went to english school, that all kids are forced to attend french school?

What about forcing businesses to make sure that their signs are predominantly french, or if their business has a english name, that they have to add a french descriptor?

How do you feel about engineers being forced to pass tests and become members of an order to be able to practice their trade?

What about constructions licenses? Alcohol licenses? Work Permits? Construction permits?

What about childhood vaccines?

Travel passports? Vaccine passports for viruses other than COVID?

Like the COVID vaccine, no one is directly forcing you to get these things. They are just providing strong incentives for people to not be selfish and think about the greater good.

Living in a society and benefitting from it requires you to give up some individual freedoms. Every society ever has been this way.

 

[waffledave]

I'm happy that I don't stress as much as some other people over this stuff. Scared of the vaccine, I just don't like being "forced" on doing something, especially coming from the same people that weren't examples to follow before this virus came up. I can also see the narrative caused you to see me as an enemy.

I would actually much rather you aren't forced to do anything, and instead get the vaccine because it is the right thing to do, irrespective of how you feel about the government.

It is not because I trust the government that I got the vaccine, because I don't and never have.

 

[Fixxer]

I would actually much rather you aren't forced to do anything, and instead get the vaccine because it is the right thing to do, irrespective of how you feel about the government.

It is not because I trust the government that I got the vaccine, because I don't and never have.

We can agree to disagree.

Do you refuse to get a license to drive your car?

Are you bothered that unless you have parents that went to english school, that all kids are forced to attend french school?

What about forcing businesses to make sure that their signs are predominantly french, or if their business has a english name, that they have to add a french descriptor?

How do you feel about engineers being forced to pass tests and become members of an order to be able to practice their trade?

What about constructions licenses? Alcohol licenses? Work Permits? Construction permits?

What about childhood vaccines?

Travel passports? Vaccine passports for viruses other than COVID?

Like the COVID vaccine, no one is directly forcing you to get these things. They are just providing strong incentives for people to not be selfish and think about the greater good.

Living in a society and benefitting from it requires you to give up some individual freedoms. Every society ever has been this way.

eh, take a deep breath in, look at a distance, calm down bro... peace...

 

[OnTheRun]

I'm happy that I don't stress as much as some other people over this stuff. Scared of the vaccine, I just don't like being "forced" on doing something, especially coming from the same people that weren't examples to follow before this virus came up. I can also see the narrative caused you to see me as an enemy.

No one is forcing you. Society merely expect you to do the right thing of your own free will.
If unsure about what is the right thing to do, then you should reach out for a professional medical advice on the subject, forget about the political class, they are not relevant to this.

 

[beowulf]

Finally got in for shot 2 today. Now sit back and see if I get a reaction, didn't really with the first one, and also since I have an autoimmune disorder and the meds I take might mess with the vaccine so I have to find out if I need a booster or not.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's ok to disagree with those who did not take the vaccine, but dissing them as not being adults isn't exactly the way to convince them otherwise.

If they aren’t convinced by now, a new tactic is needed. The carrot hasn’t worked. Education hasn’t worked.

So... just start curtailing what they can do. Limit their contagion by banning them from airports and large gatherings. Allow employers to demand vaccination as a requirement of in office employment.

Selfish people are only going to get vaccinated for selfish purposes. So, use the stick instead of the carrot.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Americans falsifying vaccination documents to enter Canada. They were fined, but I also hope that they are banned for a minimum of 10 years to enter our country. Oh! And f*** you!

The borders opens in less than a week.

Yeah, I’m all for not letting them in again. I think almost everyone would be.

 

[Milhouse40]

 

[Walrus26]

If they aren’t convinced by now, a new tactic is needed. The carrot hasn’t worked. Education hasn’t worked.

So... just start curtailing what they can do. Limit their contagion by banning them from airports and large gatherings. Allow employers to demand vaccination as a requirement of in office employment.

Selfish people are only going to get vaccinated for selfish purposes. So, use the stick instead of the carrot.

"Trials of War Criminals before the Nuremberg Military Tribunals under Control Council Law
No. 10", Vol. 2, pp. 181-182. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1949."

The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.
This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be
so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element
of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and
should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter
involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.


For the avoidance of all doubt, what you are advocating is in direct contravention of the Nurenberg Code. The Western powers executed people for forcing medications on people under duress.

If you're happy with that, then there really is no point engaging in any further debate on this thread.

 

[llamateizer]

Hopefully, nothing major as I'm going on vacation in 2 days for 2 weeks.
Rented 2 cottages in Quebec.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

"Trials of War Criminals before the Nuremberg Military Tribunals under Control Council Law
No. 10", Vol. 2, pp. 181-182. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1949."

The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.
This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be
so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element
of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and
should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter
involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.

The trials at Nuremberg were there as a trial against Nazi war criminals. The "I was just following orders" defense was not seen as a feasible one.

I have no idea what the context of your quote is here but it doesn't apply to what we're talking about. You have provided zero context for your quote so I'm not sure what it's referring to in those trials.

For the avoidance of all doubt, what you are advocating is in direct contravention of the Nurenberg Code. The Western powers executed people for forcing medications on people under duress.

If you're happy with that, then there really is no point engaging in any further debate on this thread.

No, I'm not.

Again, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything without their consent. I'm not in favour of 'forcing' anyone to take the shot. Don't want to take it? No problem, don't. But that doesn't mean that you have the right to attend a rock concert with a bunch of people you're going to potentially infect. It also doesn't mean that you can go into an office and do the same thing to your co-workers.

Individual rights are not absolute. Again, we've had schools requiring vaccines for as long as they've been around. There's nothing new here.

And Western Countries executed Nazis for giving people poison gas, not forced medication. The trials were about forcing them to take responsibility for their actions and not allowing them to hide behind the "given orders" defense. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Kriss E]

It's true that the ones burning masks, doing everything to disrupt the protocols in public places/stores, it sure feels pretty childish.

Not just these guys. Others arguing this is about governmental control and a mass international plot, repeating how this vaccine was quickly produced without understanding why, etc.

They don't want the vaccine..fine..don't take it. But don't go around arguing like this is an evil plot or blablabla.

 

[beowulf]

Yeah, I’m all for not letting them in again. I think almost everyone would be.

They can as long as they have papers showing they are fully vaccinated. Those who fraudulently try and get in using faked documents will get theirs trust me on that.