OT: Covid-19 (Part 44) Closer Together

[MJG]

Frustrating that these arguments regarding kids seems to exclusively relate to the threat of them getting extremely sick if they catch covid. I think most parents are fully aware at this point in time that the risks remain fairly low.

We’ve been dealing with covid for 18 months. We’ve dealt with lockdowns, curfews, closures. I just want my children to be able to grow up and not deal with this stuff anymore. No more classroom bubbles, masks, be able to play sports, travel, play with friends, whatever. And it’s become very clear that the vaccine is what it’s gonna take to get us back to that point. So yea, it definitely frustrates me when people say they aren’t gonna get vaccinated reasons that I don’t deem to be life threatening.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Frustrating that these arguments regarding kids seems to exclusively relate to the threat of them getting extremely sick if they catch covid. I think most parents are fully aware at this point in time that the risks remain fairly low.

We’ve been dealing with covid for 18 months. We’ve dealt with lockdowns, curfews, closures. I just want my children to be able to grow up and not deal with this stuff anymore. No more classroom bubbles, masks, be able to play sports, travel, play with friends, whatever. And it’s become very clear that the vaccine is what it’s gonna take to get us back to that point. So yea, it definitely frustrates me when people say they aren’t gonna get vaccinated reasons that I don’t deem to be life threatening.

The risks involved, the consequences of being sick... everything will change with COVID. It's not going away. We have to learn to live with it, with the tools we have in our hands. I think society as a whole is still adapting to "life after COVID". I think in the next few years you'll see way more quick testing, air purifiers and CO2 detectors. All that along with vaccines and the eventual development of OTC drugs to alleviate symptoms will allow us to have somewhat of a normal life. But yeah. Bubble, curfuews, lockdowns and closures... That can't be happening again.

I've been careful with my parents all along. We all got vaccinated twice in my family. But there's a non-negligible chance that COVID ends up threatening the life of one of my parents. Or mine. Or the one of a family member.

Still. We have to live with those parameters. Because it ain't going away. It's a whole new reality that change parameters of our life expectancy.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Frustrating that these arguments regarding kids seems to exclusively relate to the threat of them getting extremely sick if they catch covid. I think most parents are fully aware at this point in time that the risks remain fairly low.

We’ve been dealing with covid for 18 months. We’ve dealt with lockdowns, curfews, closures. I just want my children to be able to grow up and not deal with this stuff anymore. No more classroom bubbles, masks, be able to play sports, travel, play with friends, whatever. And it’s become very clear that the vaccine is what it’s gonna take to get us back to that point. So yea, it definitely frustrates me when people say they aren’t gonna get vaccinated reasons that I don’t deem to be life threatening.

Thing is, States where the unvaccinated numbers are high are seeing huge spikes in numbers now. It's worse than it was in January for a lot of these places.

And there are a lot of reports right now of more and more kids going into the ICU. It will take a while for those numbers to be reported but the initial numbers that I've seen reported are that it's 3x of kids in some States. But it's not the same everywhere... we don't have enough data yet to say how bad the new variant is in children yet. Plus, we don't know what variants are coming down the pike.

Even if you could rule out death as an outcome though, the idea of bringing my kid into the hospital over this is terrifying. I don't understand how people wouldn't be worried about this. Yes, the rate of kids is (fortunately) a lot lower. But it's still there. Idaho seems to be a State where it's spiking.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article253234063.html

"On Tuesday, Dr. Kathryn Turner, Idaho deputy state epidemiologist, pointed to a concerning rise in case numbers among young children. The number of infected kids 4 and younger has increased about 200% in the past two weeks, Turner said. For children 5-12, case numbers have roughly doubled over the same period. Turner said the number of teenagers with COVID-19 has also “increased substantially.”

“We’ve seen increases in all of the age groups, but we’re certainly seeing a relatively larger increase in the younger population,” she said.""

That's... not good.

 

[waffledave]

All that along with vaccines and the eventual development of OTC drugs to alleviate symptoms will allow us to have somewhat of a normal life. But yeah. Bubble, curfuews, lockdowns and closures... That can't be happening again.

I wonder if people will even take these drugs? I mean they won't take the vaccines because they are new/experimental/Bill Gates so why would they suddenly be amenable to taking brand newly developed drugs to treat COVID, when drugs historically have much higher incidences of adverse reactions? I feel like we are forever going to be held back by the disinformation generation.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The risks involved, the consequences of being sick... everything will change with COVID. It's not going away. We have to learn to live with it, with the tools we have in our hands. I think society as a whole is still adapting to "life after COVID". I think in the next few years you'll see way more quick testing, air purifiers and CO2 detectors. All that along with vaccines and the eventual development of OTC drugs to alleviate symptoms will allow us to have somewhat of a normal life. But yeah. Bubble, curfuews, lockdowns and closures... That can't be happening again.

I've been careful with my parents all along. We all got vaccinated twice in my family. But there's a non-negligible chance that COVID ends up threatening the life of one of my parents. Or mine. Or the one of a family member.

Still. We have to live with those parameters. Because it ain't going away. It's a whole new reality that change parameters of our life expectancy.

Canada may be lucky enough to avoid the lockdowns that may happen elsewhere because we've got high vax rates and have been serious about masks.

I posted the population vs vax rates vs infection rates between Florida and Ontario a few pages back... it's an insane difference. 20k people daily vs hundreds here.... crazy shit.

So yes, if they won't do it for other people, then use the stick and take away their toys. No airports or concerts for you. Other people should be able to enjoy these things without the risk of you infecting them. If they're unvaxed for selfish reasons, then they'll be more likely to get vaxed for selfish reasons as well. It won't work with everyone, but it will work for a lot of people.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

I wonder if people will even take these drugs? I mean they won't take the vaccines because they are new/experimental/Bill Gates so why would they suddenly be amenable to taking brand newly developed drugs to treat COVID, when drugs historically have much higher incidences of adverse reactions? I feel like we are forever going to be held back by the disinformation generation.

I wish we had enough resources in Quebec to just let them catch the disease and storm the hospitals without it having a negative effect on the system. It's just too bad but we can't just let them fall victim of their own stupidity in this country. Because it ends up affecting everyone.

 

[Fixxer]

I wonder if people will even take these drugs? I mean they won't take the vaccines because they are new/experimental/Bill Gates so why would they suddenly be amenable to taking brand newly developed drugs to treat COVID, when drugs historically have much higher incidences of adverse reactions? I feel like we are forever going to be held back by the disinformation generation.

Most people will clutch at a straw at this point. As for Bill Gates, he's the WHO's biggest share holder, so it makes him a "doctor". Most of this is experimental stuff, due to COVID being a new SRAS and the mutations happening. but I guess in order to try and reduce cases it is a necessary thing.

 

[Milhouse40]

Thing is, Red States where the unvaccinated numbers are high are seeing huge spikes in numbers now. It's worse than it was in January for a lot of these places.

And there are a lot of reports right now of more and more kids going into the ICU. It will take a while for those numbers to be reported but the initial numbers that I've seen reported are that it's 3x of kids in some States. But it's not the same everywhere... we don't have enough data yet to say how bad the new variant is in children yet. Plus, we don't know what variants are coming down the pike.

Even if you could rule out death as an outcome though, the idea of bringing my kid into the hospital over this is terrifying. I don't understand how people wouldn't be worried about this. Yes, the rate of kids is (fortunately) a lot lower. But it's still there.

That is the real threat here....always has been.
Many people are too dumb to realize this.

I always followed "end of the world" documentary, science and everything related to major natural disaster that could change the face of humanity and in everyone of them, it's always a pandemic that was the #1 threat.

We are now facing, with the Delta, one of most transmissible virus in human history. Nothing less.

If that baby mutate and keep his R-naught has high and becomes more dangerous, more deadly, then it's close to game over for our way of life. The chance of this happenning are still extremely low but they are very real also and we are building a breeding ground for variants.

A immunity wall is the only thing that could prevent this....and the vaccine is the easiest, fastest and safest way to do it. But right now, some wants to put windows and doors on that wall because they "feel or think" the consequence of the virus is not that dangerous to them not thinking how their decisions is affecting the quality of the wall the rest of us are trying to build to protect us all from this virus but also against futur mutation.

 

[waffledave]

As for Bill Gates, he's the WHO's biggest share holder, so it makes him a "doctor".

Not sure what this means.

 

[Milhouse40]

5 millions in Quebec fully vaccinated
15,8% to go in the people above 12 years old.

 

[waffledave]

That is the real threat here....always has been.
Many people are too dumb to realize this.

I always followed "end of the world" documentary, science and everything related to major natural disaster that could change the face of humanity and in everyone of them, it's always a pandemic that was the #1 threat.

We are now facing, with the Delta, one of most transmissible virus in human history. Nothing less.

If that baby mutate and keep his R-naught has high and becomes more dangerous, more deadly, then it's close to game over for our way of life. The chance of this happenning are still extremely low but they are very real also and we are building a breeding ground for variants.

A immunity wall is the only thing that could prevent this....and the vaccine is the easiest, fastest and safest way to do it. But right now, some wants to put windows and doors on that wall because they "feel or think" the consequence of the virus is not that dangerous to them not thinking how their decisions is affecting the quality of the wall the rest of us are trying to build to protect us all from this virus but also against futur mutation.

People will dismiss this because they read something on the internet that says "viruses only mutate to become less deadly" and they don't bother to read further.

Viruses that mutate to become more deadly have a harder time spreading because the hosts don't have the chance to spread them before they die. But COVID is a different beast, since you are contagious before symptoms kick in, and it doesn't kill you quickly. It's conceivable that a far more dangerous variant could emerge and become dominant, while remaining extremely infectious.

Of course, nobody wants to hear this, so f*** it, something-something driving a car is risky and nothing bad ever happens to me.

 

[Fixxer]

Not sure what this means.

That was not the main point of my post, but it simply meant that the person who offers the biggest "donation" to the World Health Organisation is in charge of it. Anyway, all this money has been going to medical researches, things should be going really well as we are finding more and more alternative to hydroxychloroquine.

 

[covfefe]

Not sure what this means.

Neither are they, I assume that was to refer to his stakeholder and/or donor status. (Which is still not true in the context of that statement, but he is their 2nd largest donor as of FY 2020.)

Here are some fun quotes for some of you Darwin-award nominees:

"Delta is now the most common variant in the province, with its frequency doubling every week relative to alpha,'' said Otto, who is an expert in the university's zoology department on the mathematical models of pandemic growth and evolution.

"The delta variant increases the viral load by about one-thousand-fold, making it much easier to catch and transmit," she added.

"The exact trajectory and intensity of growth will become clearer as more data comes in over the next few weeks, he said."

"The two things people can do to prevent the wave from getting "very high'' is get vaccinated and avoid indoor crowded spaces without a mask."

"While the vaccines are about 90 per cent effective against the coronavirus, Tupper said there will still be some people who get sick and transmit it to others. A higher degree of immunity can be achieved by vaccinating children under 12"

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/delta-variant-doubling-each-week-in-b-c-1.6128945

 

[dinodebino]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...184 new cases in this province. Creeping up for sure. No way down now if you ask me. We're starting to see the 4th wave. And vaccination for the 2nd dose, strangely, has gone silent : 43K only yesterday. We have been stuck at 66% for 3 days now. Seems vacation time is more important than getting a vaccine in about 10 minutes.

And with the construction workers back at it (well-known for not being vaxxed because of their age bracket - between 20-39) this Monday, I expect a huge surge. Oh well... On a beau les avertir, mais ça donne f***.e. Awle.

Québécois never disappoint me. Blame authorities. Never themselves.

 

[Fixxer]

anyways, let's take a step back. the Delta variant is extremely dangerous, especially for unvaccinated people, which includes children. why would you want to downplay that? what are you even trying to accomplish with that argument?

Just wait until Omega comes into play

 

[waffledave]

That was not the main point of my post, but it simply meant that the person who offers the biggest "donation" to the World Health Organisation is in charge of it. Anyway, all this money has been going to medical researches, things should be going really well as we are finding more and more alternative to hydroxychloroquine.

Largest donor to the WHO is the USA and the guy in charge of the WHO is Dr. Tedros Ghebreyesus. I don't think you're trying to start anything malicious here but it's important to be accurate as this is how conspiracies keep floating around.

 

[Fixxer]

Largest donor to the WHO is the USA and the guy in charge of the WHO is Dr. Tedros Ghebreyesus. I don't think you're trying to start anything malicious here but it's important to be accurate as this is how conspiracies keep floating around.

I know there's that big "mainstream media" vs "conspiratist" thing so I will say that was what I had to say. And yes, nothing malicious here, I just want to say a word without crossing the line. lol

 

[hersky77]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...184 new cases in this province. Creeping up for sure. No way down now if you ask me. We're starting to see the 4th wave. And vaccination for the 2nd dose, strangely, has gone silent : 43K only yesterday. We have been stuck at 66% for 3 days now. Seems vacation time is more important than getting a vaccine in about 10 minutes.

And with the construction workers back at it (well-known for not being vaxxed because of their age bracket - between 20-39) this Monday, I expect a huge surge. Oh well... On a beau les avertir, mais ça donne f***.e. Awle.

Québécois never disappoint me. Blame authorities. Never themselves.

i think you might be overacting just a little bit.

Underlying numbers are still good. Cases were expected to go up. But the important numbers are still declining.

 

[waffledave]

I know there's that big "mainstream media" vs "conspiratist" thing so I will say that was what I had to say.

Actually it is more like "fact" vs "fiction."

 

[Fixxer]

Actually it is more like "fact" vs "fiction."

Well, the government doesn't really have a reputation of telling the truth, especially prior to March 2020. People have little trust in these bosses, so it sure helps create a division. The way they forced people into their stuff, lockdowns etc. (proving they didn't trust their citizens, which is reciprocal). All this with the ever changing narrative, first on masks being first unsafe to wear for extended period of time, and then the opposite being said by doctors like Horacio Arruda. I don't buy it. Notice how he talks to us with a condescending approach. How at a conference he attended for marijuana in "Davos" (IIRC), how he stated that the virus was going to wait for him. They don't need "conspiratist" to contradict them, they do it themselves. We were unable to trust our political leaders in the past, so it just creates some of the bigger issue now. I got a certain interest in politics in the early 2000s, but I soon figured out, with the "scandale des commandites", "commission charbonneau", you see the real behind the smoke screen and then, trusting the political leaders becomes an extreme challenge. All this looking at the fellow citizens, who have proven to be selfish up to the pandemic, for the most part, who are now following guidelines, not for the good of others, but because of the way others are going to think of them and because they are afraid of their own personal safety. So, anyway, I guess that's my take on it and it won't change. I'm doing what is "neccesary" but that stops there. To each his own. Stay safe. Take Care!!

 

[MJG]

i think you might be overacting just a little bit.

Underlying numbers are still good. Cases were expected to go up. But the important numbers are still declining.

Were they really expected to go up in late July/early August?? Not as far as I was aware. All the talk of 4th waves was related to schools reopening, weather getting colder and people moving indoors. So I don’t think we can just dismiss the numbers. If they’re being driven by delta then I feel as though it needs to be discussed and potentially addressed.

 

[Treb]

 

[waffledave]

Well, the government doesn't really have a reputation of telling the truth, especially prior to March 2020. People have little trust in these bosses, so it sure helps create a division. The way they forced people into their stuff, lockdowns etc. (proving they didn't trust their citizens, which is reciprocal). All this with the ever changing narrative, first on masks being first unsafe to wear for extended period of time, and then the opposite being said by doctors like Horacio Arruda. I don't buy it. Notice how he talks to us with a condescending approach. How at a conference he attended for marijuana in "Davos" (IIRC), how he stated that the virus was going to wait for him. They don't need "conspiratist" to contradict them, they do it themselves. We were unable to trust our political leaders in the past, so it just creates some of the bigger issue now. I got a certain interest in politics in the early 2000s, but I soon figured out, with the "scandale des commandites", "commission charbonneau", you see the real behind the smoke screen and then, trusting the political leaders becomes an extreme challenge. All this looking at the fellow citizens, who have proven to be selfish up to the pandemic, for the most part, who are now following guidelines, not for the good of others, but because of the way others are going to think of them and because they are afraid of their own personal safety. So, anyway, I guess that's my take on it and it won't change. I'm doing what is "neccesary" but that stops there. To each his own. Stay safe. Take Care!!

Sorry man, I don't really follow where you're going here. I thought we were talking about the WHO. Anyway, it's all good, see ya.

 

[Crusher117]

Cases have been rising for 3 weeks now which is expected. The good news is, Alpha is still the dominant strain in Quebec so while youth (18 to 29) account for most of the cases. They won't end up in the hospital.
However Delta will become dominant eventually and we better hope we hit 85% 2 doses before October/November.

I keep seeing stories of nurses quitting in the US because they can't handle another surge in hospitals due to unvaccinated people. Quebec's hospital system is insanely fragile right now and we gotta do everything we can to protect it.

 

[Fixxer]

Sorry man, I don't really follow where you're going here. I thought we were talking about the WHO. Anyway, it's all good, see ya.

In fact, in a prior message I was talking about the WHO. But not in the one you quoted. Anyway, I guess I couldn't help but go on one of the many clickbait Covid threads out here, although I know it's best for me to stay away from these and stick to the hockey forum part of HF.