"Default police response"? What are you talking about, man? Given the amount of criminal incidents happening every hour of every day in every city, we're looking at more than 99% of them ending successfully. If we start vilifying the police as an institution we are truly f***ed. What this whole thing SHOULD be about is accountability for the bad apples and the bad decisions that result in tragedies. Want change? That starts with mutual respect on both sides, like we saw in the US with some cops taking off their gear and walking with protesters. We need more listening and less posturing. That means cops acknowledging the problem within their ranks, and it also means protesters acknowledging the problem of lowlifes among them who are there to provoke a response.From what I can see, the guy dropped his knife and walked out, maybe he got arrested once he got outside. The fact that he's robbing a store while out for a walk with his pet chihuahua suggests mental illness. So actually yeah, no harm was done, no shots were fired, the situation was de-escalated, I call that a success.
It's absurd to me that that the default policing response to someone drawing a knife has become "shoot them until they're dead". De-escalate, FFS. That's what you're supposed to learn in your training.
Amen, brother. It's been so long since we've had hockey that I've forgotten who I agree with around here.I'll be glad when it's weeks between new Covid threads instead of days.
Amen, brother. It's been so long since we've had hockey that I've forgotten who I agree with around here.
Well... they've got uniforms and weapons, there's shooting and plenty of brutality, there's even a screaming mob. So I guess it's some kind of protest.What's hockey?
The whole 'defund the police' thing baffles me. I can't see this ending well for the people proposing it.
In the US, it has sadly become common practice for cops to gun down suspects at the slightest hint of a weapon, leading to a lot of tragic false positives."Default police response"? What are you talking about, man?
I guess I disagree with the false equivalence of bad behavior on behalf of a random looter and a trained police officer. As I've said previously in the thread, police officers should be held to a higher standard. 1% poor outcomes for them is still pretty ****ty for what's supposed to be a disciplined, well-trained and trustworthy police force. They're an organization that wields legitimate authority handed down from the government. If you can't handle being held to that high standard, then maybe being a cop is not the right job for you.Given the amount of criminal incidents happening every hour of every day in every city, we're looking at more than 99% of them ending successfully. [...]That means cops acknowledging the problem within their ranks, and it also means protesters acknowledging the problem of lowlifes among them who are there to provoke a response.
Well... they've got uniforms and weapons, there's shooting and plenty of brutality, there's even a screaming mob. So I guess it's some kind of protest.
Or else... maybe the protest is actually a hockey game. Hmmm.....
In the US, it has sadly become common practice for cops to gun down suspects at the slightest hint of a weapon, leading to a lot of tragic false positives.
Here is one of the more famous examples, sadly there have been literally hundreds more like that over years, and surprise, they happen disproportionately to minorities of color. So what's what I'm talking about. It's bull**** and it's got to stop.
Shooting of Amadou Diallo - Wikipedia
I guess I disagree with the false equivalence of bad behavior on behalf of a random looter and a trained police officer. As I've said previously in the thread, police officers should be held to a higher standard. 1% poor outcomes for them is still pretty ****ty for what's supposed to be a disciplined, well-trained and trustworthy police force. They're an organization that wields legitimate authority handed down from the government. If you can't handle being held to that high standard, then maybe being a cop is not the right job for you.
I take "bad apples" on the protestor side as disappointing but ultimately something no organization is accountable for. It's a random element of how a minority of citizens express themselves in a ****ty situation like this one. you're probably gonna hate that answer but eh we'll have to disagree
btw that's to say nothing about extremely suspicious recorded incidents such as these, where it seems likely that cops and/or alt-right provocateurs are deliberately engaging in that behavior to discredit the protests
I guess I disagree with the false equivalence of bad behavior on behalf of a random looter and a trained police officer. As I've said previously in the thread, police officers should be held to a higher standard. 1% poor outcomes for them is still pretty ****ty for what's supposed to be a disciplined, well-trained and trustworthy police force. They're an organization that wields legitimate authority handed down from the government. If you can't handle being held to that high standard, then maybe being a cop is not the right job for you.
I take "bad apples" on the protestor side as disappointing but ultimately something no organization is accountable for. It's a random element of how a minority of citizens express themselves in a ****ty situation like this one. you're probably gonna hate that answer but eh we'll have to disagree
btw that's to say nothing about extremely suspicious recorded incidents such as these, where it seems likely that cops and/or alt-right provocateurs are deliberately engaging in that behavior to discredit the protests
No argument here. This is the core issue, and I think it starts with the police chief, or whomever is in charge of the officers on the street. We've been looking at the individual cops -- as we should -- but we need to look behind the scenes, at what's happening before these young men hit the streets. What tone is their superior setting? What instructions are they given? What standards are being imposed? While we're prosecuting the cops who acted criminally, we shouldn't give a pass to the head cops who train them and send them out there.In the US, it has sadly become common practice for cops to gun down suspects at the slightest hint of a weapon, leading to a lot of tragic false positives.
Here is one of the more famous examples, sadly there have been literally hundreds more like that over years, and surprise, they happen disproportionately to minorities of color. So what's what I'm talking about. It's bull**** and it's got to stop.
Shooting of Amadou Diallo - Wikipedia
Context is important here. In normal circumstances, we don't have a random looter problem. That's emergent from the current protests, and it'll go away when the protests die down. But we do have a police brutality problem. Before the protests, during the protests, and sadly afterward too.There's no false equivalency. I'm not saying looters should be held to the same standards as cops; I'm saying they should be held to the same standards as regular people, you know, people like us who don't bash in store windows, clean out merchandise, and then burn random cars. I have no sympathy for parasites who feed off legitimate protests for personal profit.
Nobody sees a looted store and thinks, "Society needs to be better"; they think, "Society needs to be protected from people who loot stores". Once stuff starts breaking, the message gets lost and everybody's circling their wagons. We need to separate the assholes from the honest protesters in order for any kind of statement to have an impact. But that means protesters have to suck it up and cooperate more transparently with police to weed out the poison. And it means police have to suck it up and serve & protect legit protests.
I agree completely that looting a distraction. But let's be clear -- it's the looters who are causing the distraction. And that's exactly why the protesters should be helping police weed them out. The last thing legitimate protesters should want is their message being drowned out by broken glass, fires, and theft. The point is to call out the police, not create situations where the police are actually needed.Context is important here. In normal circumstances, we don't have a random looter problem. That's emergent from the current protests, and it'll go away when the protests die down. But we do have a police brutality problem. Before the protests, during the protests, and sadly afterward too.
So to me it's a hand-waving distraction to say "hey but what about the looters!!", and it deflects attention away the problems of police brutality and systemic racism.
We'll have to disagree. IMO more harm to the conversation on systemic racism and police brutality is being done by those comfortable, middle class "what about the looters!!" people than the looters themselves. Because if it wasn't the looting, it'd be something else. They're looking for any excuse to distract away from the real issues and obstruct actual change. They aren't directly affected by these issues, and they don't want to be inconvenienced by committing to actual changes to their lifestyle.I agree completely that looting a distraction. But let's be clear -- it's the looters who are causing the distraction.
This has been occurring btw. Nice to see.And that's exactly why the protesters should be helping police weed them out.
There are so many places I could go with this photo but every one of them would get me a long vacation on Hf hab island so I will say nothing at all.
The whole 'defund the police' thing baffles me. I can't see this ending well for the people proposing it.
That's a collection of made-up caricatures about the middle class. It's not real. What's real is the damage done by real looters who destroy real property. If you're going to make excuses for their behaviour and relieve them of accountability, how can you seriously turn around and demand accountability from others?We'll have to disagree. IMO more harm to the conversation on systemic racism and police brutality is being done by those comfortable, middle class "what about the looters!!" people than the looters themselves. Because if it wasn't the looting, it'd be something else. They're looking for any excuse to distract away from the real issues and obstruct actual change. They aren't directly affected by these issues, and they don't want to be inconvenienced by committing to actual changes to their lifestyle.