Could Toronto Wind Up With Two 1st Round Picks?

[Chief keefe]

I actually think if you include Lilly alongside both Dermott and Johnsson plus 2 Picks. You can get a 1st and a good Dman.

Lilly and Dermott= A good developed Dman ( from a team with abundance of D or a wasted D on rebuilding team)
Johnson and 2 picks get you a first

That's what I think BUT why would we trade all those pieces for a good Dman and a 1st. Unless you know for sure you are getting Askarov and Schnider.. THEN I would do it in a second. Both Schnider and Sandin in the future will be beautiful. Askorav would carry us to the promise land. One can only dream though..

 

[Mess]

It's always about Lou and Dubas for you, isn't it?

Its always about my Leafs for me not the GMs, but the results of the team I support.

Here I was just pointing out the potential hypocrisy among some Leaf fans that blame the bad things on the past GM and the good things on our current GM.

Dealing Marleau with a 1st was not the current GMs fault, but if he trades Andersen for a 1st that will be seen as praise for the current GM, because his $1 mil contract after bonuses set that up.

Both players and contracts were inherited, and both trades would be made by the current GM. So its really an all or nothing situation or those that regretted the Marleau trade can now feel that can be offset by an Andersen trade.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

that pkg of dermott and johnson wont get you a 1st.

We got Kapanen for a 1st and then some. Anything is possible

 

[Tak7]

3 yrs ago it would have been nice to follow that rebuild plan.

We don’t even know what stage they’re at now. Is it the make a bunch of moves to make the playoffs and save the GM stage or do they need another step back?

The core is all young, and signed long-term.

That means the team has to be in "win-now" mode, IMO.

 

[Tak7]

I actually think if you include Lilly alongside both Dermott and Johnsson plus 2 Picks. You can get a 1st and a good Dman.

Lilly and Dermott= A good developed Dman ( from a team with abundance of D or a wasted D on rebuilding team)
Johnson and 2 picks get you a first
..

The Leafs are already lacking bodies on the blueline - trading 2 more, including an established NHLer, seems more like creating holes rather than filling them, no?

 

[Nineteen67]

The core is all young, and signed long-term.

That means the team has to be in "win-now" mode, IMO.

The core is signed for 4 more years and then he may skate out the door.

 

[Tak7]

The core is signed for 4 more years and then he may skate out the door.

Even more reason to go for it now.

 

[Mess]

Even more reason to go for it now.

I agree.

When the Leafs signed Tavares for $11 mil they immediately moved to win now mode, and removed all doubt of the direction of the team.

So a thread about collecting draft picks for roster players, is one seen as moving the current team in the wrong direction if you're trying to win now and not later as this is more about rebuild more chatter.

 

[bodechek]

money.

That is only a temporary solution for one season. Why waste the #1 pick only to run into the same problem the following season and to lose a pick in a deep draft (2020/21)? Unless your GM's name is John Ferguson Jr, I don't see trading a number one pick for Freddy happening. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see it happen, but realistically, I can't see it being done.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I understand the term argument with Anderson, but Kasperi Kapanen, a third line winger was worth a 1st and 2nd round pick (Hallander was a 2nd round pick, #58 overall and is on schedule to play in the NHL)...

For a team that is not a destination city for one of the top free agent goalies, I'd be shocked if Anderson isn't at least as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen. Subtract the higher end prospect due to the lack of term, and IMO, a decent 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick with another high pick should be attainable.

 

[Tak7]

I understand the term argument with Anderson, but Kasperi Kapanen, a third line winger was worth a 1st and 2nd round pick (Hallander was a 2nd round pick, #58 overall and is on schedule to play in the NHL)...

For a team that is not a destination city for one of the top free agent goalies, I'd be shocked if Anderson isn't at least as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen. Subtract the higher end prospect due to the lack of term, and IMO, a decent 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick with another high pick should be attainable.

Who was the last goalie that got traded that went for really good value?

The most recent one I can think of was Schneider for Horvat's pick.

Anything more recent? Seems like goalies just don't attract tons of value around the league.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Unlikely. If we can get two 2nds, we'll have done well.

 

[hotpaws]

I understand the term argument with Anderson, but Kasperi Kapanen, a third line winger was worth a 1st and 2nd round pick (Hallander was a 2nd round pick, #58 overall and is on schedule to play in the NHL)...

For a team that is not a destination city for one of the top free agent goalies, I'd be shocked if Anderson isn't at least as valuable as Kasperi Kapanen. Subtract the higher end prospect due to the lack of term, and IMO, a decent 1st round pick or a high 2nd round pick with another high pick should be attainable.

your leaving out the ages of the 2 players and the fact that the Pens don't view Kap as a 3rd line winger

Rutherford has been tasked by ownership to try to take another run or two before Sid/Geno's cup widow closes so he isn't going to value picks as highly as other teams probably do

hopefully i'm wrong and we get a good haul for Andy but if there's that much of a glut for goalies as i keep hearing on this board the return isn't going to be much more than a 2nd

 

[ToneDog]

Even more reason to go for it now.

This team is not good enough to for it now. Going for it now could actually set us back even further.

We need to win at least 1 round before we go for it.

 

[ToneDog]

The core is signed for 4 more years and then he may skate out the door.

What team will have enough money and cap space to pay Matty in 4 years ?? Willie may or may not be here when his contract ends.

 

[Tak7]

This team is not good enough to for it now. Going for it now could actually set us back even further.

We need to win at least 1 round before we go for it.

Then you make it better, to win now.

Either way, you don't prioritize picking up future assets (prospects, picks), unless it's as trade currency that you focus on flipping.

 

[ToneDog]

Then you make it better, to win now.

Either way, you don't prioritize picking up future assets (prospects, picks), unless it's as trade currency that you focus on flipping.

The Shanahan plan failed when it comes to the prospect pipeline. Sandin and Robertson look promising. Lily has a shot. After that, not much. You cannot keep trading your high picks when you have not had much draft success past the second round.

 

[Duke Silver]

The fact there are so many high-quality goaltenders available works AGAINST Andersen's trade value.

 

[Nineteen67]

What team will have enough money and cap space to pay Matty in 4 years ?? Willie may or may not be here when his contract ends.

Vegas

 

[ToneDog]

Vegas

And it is close to his home. Definitely a threat.

 

[ToneDog]

The fact there are so many high-quality goaltenders available works AGAINST Andersen's trade value.

The trade chip is that he is only owed $1M in real dollars. My worry is if they have soured on Andy like they did Kadri and force another bad trade.

 

[hotpaws]

And it is close to his home. Definitely a threat.

LA will potentially also have plenty of cap space but 4 years is long time from now and plenty of things can happen .

it'll come down to where AM wants to play and if he keeps up this level of play his desired destination would probably bend over backwards to clear the necessary cap space to sign him

 

[Al14]

It would be really nice to have 2 first round picks in a supposed deep draft.

 

[Chief keefe]

The Leafs are already lacking bodies on the blueline - trading 2 more, including an established NHLer, seems more like creating holes rather than filling them, no?

I don't disagree with you BUT I do see the benefit since Lily just isn't developing well, to be honest. so swapping him out soon might be needed. I am also noticing we are just not good a developing defence... we have had a lot of potential here and unless you are Rielly level you end up being mediocre... it's an issue so getting developed talent for the talent we screwed up lol might be a good way to start having good talent in the system that can tach and help our younger talent who have bright futures.. now I do think Dermott and Lilly have a lot of potential they just arent reaching it and the clock is ticking before we wasted the prime of our core. I do think that Lily and Dermott under a good defence coach might help them develop but so far and sadly for the last 15 years, we have developed Rielly (did not need much), Gunnarson and Sandin... I can't recall any other Dmen we drafted that actually panned out. Luke schenn we royally screwed up and although he played a lot i do not think he was developed well... and Dermott well he just isnt as good as we make him out to be...We overate our players. One thing I will say is that Dermott works hard and I appreciate his hard work.

 

[Tak7]

I don't disagree with you BUT I do see the benefit since Lily just isn't developing well, to be honest. so swapping him out soon might be needed. I am also noticing we are just not good a developing defence... we have had a lot of potential here and unless you are Rielly level you end up being mediocre... it's an issue so getting developed talent for the talent we screwed up lol might be a good way to start having good talent in the system that can tach and help our younger talent who have bright futures.. now I do think Dermott and Lilly have a lot of potential they just arent reaching it and the clock is ticking before we wasted the prime of our core. I do think that Lily and Dermott under a good defence coach might help them develop but so far and sadly for the last 15 years, we have developed Rielly (did not need much), Gunnarson and Sandin... I can't recall any other Dmen we drafted that actually panned out. Luke schenn we royally screwed up and although he played a lot i do not think he was developed well... and Dermott well he just isnt as good as we make him out to be...We overate our players. One thing I will say is that Dermott works hard and I appreciate his hard work.

What makes you think Liljegren isn't developing?

By all accounts his defensive game, gap control, and skating have all improved.

Dermott is also a serviceable NHLer, who will sign for a cost-controlled cheap deal in the coming few weeks, and who just finished only his 2nd full season in the NHL. Thought he got better during the CBJ series, especially when Muzzin went down

I'm not sure I agree with you on either player, to be honest.

I do recognize that you have to give up quality in order to get quality, which is why I wouldn't be disappointed to see one of Sandin / Liljegren go depending on the return, but Dermott is probably a big no for me if he's in that package.