Speculation: Could Karlsson come back to Ottawa?

[Hale The Villain]

He was once and he is having a renaissance this year. But who's to say he will remain playing this well for the next 4 1/2 years???

I don't think we should expect him to perform this well for the remaining 4 years of his deal, but given his front-loaded contract and assuming some retention from SJ he'd be coming at a much much lower real salary cost than his 11.5M cap hit, which is important for a team like us that hasn't been able to spend as much as the top teams in this league, and that may not change until we get a new arena downtown.

 

[coladin]

If EK had magically switched teams the last game and been setting up Stutzle, Brady, Cat, Giroux, Drake, Pinto, Sanderson, Chabot we would have won that game in a 8-1 route or something. The sharks wouldn't have left their own zone, I miss those days when Senators teams could do that.

But yea such a better fit to just circle the drain of irrelevancy in the basement of the standings I guess.

Or we could watch him giveup in front of the net for another tap in. Except we won't get to see Andy glare at him . Talbot and Forsy would glare at him instead. And he still can't pivot to his left

These are just words. Could just as easily say he'd mesh in just fine on the ice and get along with the mates well. Nobody really knows how it would go.

Which pairing

 

[Silky Johnson]

yes we need a Zub type, he was custom made for this roster. however even if we manage to sign him that still leaves a hole at RD, and if we don't that's two holes at RD that cripple the team to irrelevancy. How can we for sure solve that?

And Sanderson-Karlsson would be an incredible pairing that I would throw out against anyone without fear. heck they would bring the fear. Sanderson will increasingly become a stud defensively and Karlsson has shown he can be great defensively especially when it matters. They might struggle in the net front but they are both such smart high iq defenceman it would be no surprise that teams have to worry more about being stuck in their own end than attacking ours.

Toews-Makar works and is one of the most dominant pairings on the planet. Sanderson and Karlsson has that same potential.

Sanderson-Karlsson
Chabot- Zub

would be ideal

but

Sanderson-Karlsson
Chabot-heavy
heavy-heavy

works as well.

The good news is that the puck would rarely be in our end with a Sanderson Karlsson pairing. Puck retrieval and zone exits would be amazing.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Which pairing

Would fit like a glove with Sanderson imo and would be our top pairing.

Chabot on the 2nd pair with Zub or a replacement.

That wasn't really my point though. It might work, it might not, just like any player brought in to a new team, nobody really knows. He's not some boogie monster that won't work because of who he is.

 

[Big Muddy]

Would fit like a glove with Sanderson imo and would be our top pairing.

Chabot on the 2nd pair with Zub or a replacement.

That wasn't really my point though. It might work, it might not, just like any player brought in to a new team, nobody really knows. He's not some boogie monster that won't work because of who he is.

I wonder how people view Sanderson's skillset? Are they seeing him as a defensive Dman?

I think pairing EK with Sanderson would slow down Sanderson's development on the offensive side of a defender's game. He's already good, but there is much more there in the future to unleash. I don't see the fit like a glove scenario here.

And, in general with Karlsson added, I'm not seeing the optimal pairings that others are seeing I guess. Results could still be good despite this though.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I wonder how people view Sanderson's skillset? Are they seeing him as a defensive Dman?

I think pairing EK with Sanderson would slow down Sanderson's development on the offensive side of a defender's game. He's already good, but there is much more there in the future to unleash. I don't see the fit like a glove scenario here.

And, in general with Karlsson added, I'm not seeing the optimal pairings that others are seeing I guess. Results could still be good despite this though.

Ya that's a decent point. I see Sandy as a two way guy that's capable of 40-50 points every year, but maybe there's more there. I looked at it like he would get to learn from Karlsson and who better to learn the offensive side of the game from, while also spreading our offence from defense talent to the right. Our two best dmen on one pairing that can both skate well and move the puck is appealing to me. I like the fit with Chabot a lot less, but he would thrive playing a lesser role imo.

 

[Cosmix]

I wonder how people view Sanderson's skillset? Are they seeing him as a defensive Dman?

I think pairing EK with Sanderson would slow down Sanderson's development on the offensive side of a defender's game. He's already good, but there is much more there in the future to unleash. I don't see the fit like a glove scenario here.

And, in general with Karlsson added, I'm not seeing the optimal pairings that others are seeing I guess. Results could still be good despite this though.

I think pairing Sanderson with Karlsson could be very effective.

I previously wanted to pair Chabot with Karlsson to provide what would be an outstanding offensive pairing which would add significantly to our offensive attack and support the forwards by overwhelming the opponents at 5 on 5.

I see Sanderson as being similar to Scott Neidermayer; very good at both D and O play.

 

[Agent Zub]

I wonder how people view Sanderson's skillset? Are they seeing him as a defensive Dman?

I think pairing EK with Sanderson would slow down Sanderson's development on the offensive side of a defender's game. He's already good, but there is much more there in the future to unleash. I don't see the fit like a glove scenario here.

And, in general with Karlsson added, I'm not seeing the optimal pairings that others are seeing I guess. Results could still be good despite this though.

He's a puck moving, two way defenceman. Sort of like a young Karlsson actually. Less offensive bravado but more defensive focus.

And learning and playing with one of the greatest offensive defenceman of all time is going to hurt Sandersons offensive development? I dunno about you but id much rather get tips from a legend like Karlsson vs someone like Hamonic.

 

[Big Muddy]

Ya that's a decent point. I see Sandy as a two way guy that's capable of 40-50 points every year, but maybe there's more there. I looked at it like he would get to learn from Karlsson and who better to learn the offensive side of the game from, while also spreading our offence from defense talent to the right. Our two best dmen on one pairing that can both skate well and move the puck is appealing to me. I like the fit with Chabot a lot less, but he would thrive playing a lesser role imo.

I think Sanderson has already shown us that he has the offensive talent & upside (referring to the future) to be as effective as Chabot. I think that part of his game might be underrated by some. JMHO.

And, if they acquired Karlsson, when 2024-25 season hits, your very likely going to have three (3) $8 m or $8 m + defenders. Harder to balance the cap in an optimal way if that's the case, and its perhaps overkill. You can bridge, but you'll paying even more for Sanderson in the future if the team went that route. I know talking about the cap is a drag (overlooked aspect) - mea culpa.

 

[Big Muddy]

He's a puck moving, two way defenceman. Sort of like a young Karlsson actually. Less offensive bravado but more defensive focus.

And learning and playing with one of the greatest offensive defenceman of all time is going to hurt Sandersons offensive development? I dunno about you but id much rather get tips from a legend like Karlsson vs someone like Hamonic.

See #284.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think Sanderson has already shown us that he has the offensive talent & upside (referring to the future) to be as effective as Chabot. I think that part of his game might be underrated by some. JMHO.

And, if they acquired Karlsson, when 2024-25 season hits, your very likely going to have three (3) $8 m or $8 m + defenders. Harder to balance the cap in an optimal way if that's the case, and its perhaps overkill. You can bridge, but you'll paying even more for Sanderson in the future if the team went that route. I know talking about the cap is a drag (overlooked aspect) - mea culpa.

I hear ya. I still like the fit and think there's room for both of them to thrive, but I see the argument. To me, I see the bigger issue as Chabot possibly being the odd man out and his salary being inflated because of it.

The 3 big salaries could certainly be an issue, but with Karlsson only having 4 years left and Chabot only 5 years left, it's something I think we can navigate in the short/mid term.

The whole idea to me either way is predicated on significant retention, Dorion knowing Cat and/or Zub are leaving, and just trying to add talent back there for now. And more so, I just don't like the argument he won't work because he's Erik Karlsson the person which seems to be the narrative sometimes. He won't get along with the team, the age doesn't fit, too much history, etc. I don't buy any of that.

 

[Big Muddy]

I hear ya. I still like the fit and think there's room for both of them to thrive, but I see the argument. To me, I see the bigger issue as Chabot possibly being the odd man out and his salary being inflated because of it.

The 3 big salaries could certainly be an issue, but with Karlsson only having 4 years left and Chabot only 5 years left, it's something I think we can navigate in the short/mid term.

The whole idea to me either way is predicated on significant retention, Dorion knowing Cat and/or Zub are leaving, and just trying to add talent back there for now. And more so, I just don't like the argument he won't work because he's Erik Karlsson the person which seems to be the narrative sometimes. He won't get along with the team, the age doesn't fit, too much history, etc. I don't buy any of that.

Lots of folks seem to point at NJ. They added some defenders this year which seems to have pushed them over the top and its much discussed and envied. But this years additions were not of the ilk of Karlsson (talent and $s). Many are also saying that we don't need 4 stud defenders. So, let's take these concepts at face value and run with them or flesh them out more.

If we are to believe that Dorion (not suggesting he isn't btw) is the problem and that he and his staff are incapable of properly evaluating defensive talent and consummating a deal/trade, shouldn't it be much easier to get a good defender that will help us that doesn't need to be a Karlsson when we have a new GM next year?

I just hope our management understands opportunity costs and does a good alternative analysis. Its seems prudent to do so versus what I sense some fans are doing which is getting locked on to a solution and then working backwards manipulating the need criteria to result in a predetermined solution. Again, just some food for thought.

Yes, you navigate as you mentioned, but navigate actually means making hard decisions and subtracting good players. That's the cost no matter what we pretend.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Lots of folks seem to point at NJ. They added some defenders this year which seems to have pushed them over the top and its much discussed and envied. But this years additions were not of the ilk of Karlsson (talent and $s). Many are also saying that we don't need 4 stud defenders. So, let's take these concepts at face value and run with them or flesh them out more.

If we are to believe that Dorion (not suggesting he isn't btw) is the problem and that he and his staff are incapable of properly evaluating defensive talent and consummating a deal/trade, shouldn't it be much easier to get a good defender that will help us that doesn't need to be a Karlsson when we have a new GM next year?

I just hope our management understands opportunity costs and does a good alternative analysis. Its seems prudent to do so versus what I sense some fans are doing which is getting locked on to a solution and then working backwards manipulating the need criteria to result in a predetermined solution. Again, just some food for thought.

Yes, you navigate as you mentioned, but navigate actually means making hard decisions and subtracting good players. That's the cost no matter what we pretend.

Well, that's where my comment about Cat/Zub comes in. I think if this team ever did acquire Karlsson and shift money to defence like that, it's because Cat is leaving, and maybe Zub too. If those two do leave we'll be scrambling for talent either way and would have the budget to add it.

Imo, if you have a chance to nab one of the greatest offensive defensemen in the history of the game, you do it, but I do understand the hesitancy that he won't keep this up or that he makes other high priced players redundant.

And I do agree that a different GM brings a lot of variables that likely sees the defense addressed differently. I hope it is a priority as it seems clear that it is going to need outside help and it's not coming internally.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well, that's where my comment about Cat/Zub comes in. I think if this team ever did acquire Karlsson and shift money to defence like that, it's because Cat is leaving, and maybe Zub too. If those two do leave we'll be scrambling for talent either way and would have the budget to add it.

Imo, if you have a chance to nab one of the greatest offensive defensemen in the history of the game, you do it, but I do understand the hesitancy that he won't keep this up or that he makes other high priced players redundant.

And I do agree that a different GM brings a lot of variables that likely sees the defense addressed differently. I hope it is a priority as it seems clear that it is going to need outside help and it's not coming internally.

Yes, I would tend to agree that adjustments could be necessary and that moves/trades of existing players might need to be made . Its not a popular concept though for what that's worth. People don't like to make hard choices or sacrifices and tend to shy away from them.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year with a new owner and management group in place. I think we agree that somehow strengthening the defense is something that needs to be addressed.

I think there's different alternatives and ways of doing that, so I hope all alternatives are considered and that a cogent strategy & plan arises out of that analysis.

Then, there's the matter of executing that strategy. Its not always as easy as it seems, so maybe we'll learn more about that as well next year.

There will be more cap in the future. How much exactly, and when exactly, we don't know. But, many teams will benefit from that, not just Ottawa. A rising tide floats all boats as they say. In a way, we were better off with the flat, cap COVID economics because more teams were in a cap constrained situation, and hence less competition. These are things I think about, but again, it's not popular.

 

[coladin]

This columnist, Jon Heyman, tweeted on Monday that Karlsson deal is being finalized. He has been breaking a lot of MLB deals. I can’t find the tweet so he must have deleted it…

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don’t think EK would be a good partner for Sanderson or Chabot. EK has the puck 90% of the time which means that his partner is there to play D and to get him the puck.

Both Sanderson and Chabot are so much more valuable than that, and really, both guys need a similar stable defensive oriented guy who likes playing physical and is happy to hand off the puck for the other guy to make most of the plays.

 

[CorrectOpinion]

If Sharks will retain 50% I would trade any player excpet for Brady, Stu, Chabby, Norris, Zub, Sanderson, or Giroux in exchange for EK65. And I think I would cry tears of joy when the deal was done. I can't even imagine what that group of untouchables could do if EK65 joined. He would compliment everyone. Probably would compliment the Cat well too actually.

 

[Agent Zub]

I don’t think EK would be a good partner for Sanderson or Chabot. EK has the puck 90% of the time which means that his partner is there to play D and to get him the puck.

Both Sanderson and Chabot are so much more valuable than that, and really, both guys need a similar stable defensive oriented guy who likes playing physical and is happy to hand off the puck for the other guy to make most of the plays.

what? Karlsson loves sharing the puck it's his entire game.

The fact that he has the puck a lot is just a testament to his skill level and that all his teammates want to get him the puck because they know he will do something good with it. And Karlsson having the puck a lot simply means that his team has the puck a lot.

If some of you guys were watching Karlsson regularly you would change tune so quick.

This is the stuff Sharks announcers describe him with "taking over the game" "carrying the team on his back"

but who wants that in a rd right?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Can GMs join the player assistance program? Cuz Somwthing is definitely up with Grier.

This columnist, Jon Heyman, tweeted on Monday that Karlsson deal is being finalized. He has been breaking a lot of MLB deals. I can’t find the tweet so he must have deleted it…

I think someone screenshotted then edited the post

 

[Big Muddy]

what? Karlsson loves sharing the puck it's his entire game.

Agree. He's a good distributor. But, there are other considerations. How many of the same kind of player does the team need? How much do you spend on defense or for a certain kind of player? Can you make certain (larger) salaries work given the cap? If you can make it work, but need to make adjustments/subtractions elsewhere, is that optimal?

 

[Ice-Tray]

what? Karlsson loves sharing the puck it's his entire game.

The fact that he has the puck a lot is just a testament to his skill level and that all his teammates want to get him the puck because they know he will do something good with it. And Karlsson having the puck a lot simply means that his team has the puck a lot.

If some of you guys were watching Karlsson regularly you would change tune so quick.

This is the stuff Sharks announcers describe him with "taking over the game" "carrying the team on his back"

but who wants that in a rd right?

Oh relax, we all watched EK plenty, we all know what he can do, and I’m not slighting him. I’m just being honest that I don’t think he’d be an ideal partner for Sanderson.

I wasn’t suggesting he’s a puck hog, I was suggesting that he runs the play from the back end, and distributes the puck in the offensive zone. His style of play, and what makes him so effective, doesn’t leave a lot of room for another young star defender to run plays and develop.

Sanderson is perfect with a Hamonic type player. Takes care of a lot of the physical side of things, can hammer the puck when set up for a shot, and is defensively responsible so that Sanderson can push deep into the Ozone and join the rush.

None of that is what EK is known for. In fact EK also benefits greatly from being partnered with a guy like that, as we all know.

 

[Agent Zub]

Karlsson making these passes to our forward core would be nuts.

 

[DueDiligence]

If some of you guys were watching Karlsson regularly you would change tune so quick.

This is the stuff Sharks announcers describe him with "taking over the game" "carrying the team on his back"

but who wants that in a rd right?

Yup Karlsson has been so good at "taking over games" that he is a minus 6 this year and the Sharks record is 8-16-5.
I'll pass on a 32 year old Dman with a serious injury history that has 4 1/2 years left on a contract with an $11 million cap hit. He's not what the Sens need especially when it means other good players will have to be moved to afford him.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yup Karlsson has been so good at "taking over games" that he is a minus 6 this year and the Sharks record is 8-16-5.
I'll pass on a 32 year old Dman with a serious injury history that has 4 1/2 years left on a contract with an $11 million cap hit. He's not what the Sens need especially when it means other good players will have to be moved to afford him.

Considering how bad they are and how much he plays, -6 isn't really a bad stat.

They're an even worse team than we are, by a fair margin even.

 

[Agent Zub]

Yup Karlsson has been so good at "taking over games" that he is a minus 6 this year and the Sharks record is 8-16-5.
I'll pass on a 32 year old Dman with a serious injury history that has 4 1/2 years left on a contract with an $11 million cap hit. He's not what the Sens need especially when it means other good players will have to be moved to afford him.

plus/minus seriously, have you seen the team he plays on?

and what's Brady, Chabot, Stutzle, Batherson, Debrincat's excuse for being minus players considering they mostly play with each other?