OT: Coronavirus XXXIII: Moderna Joins Pfizer as the Second Approved Vaccine in the US

[Raab]

You're citing an article from April. Of course there were few published pre-clinical animal studies of the different SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidates at that point. 8 months later numerous studies have been conducted from pre-clinical in animals through Phase 3 trials in humans (with 45K+ participants in the Pfizer trial). The data has been published and can be reviewed by anyone, including independent vaccine experts. The FDA will continue to monitor any adverse reactions in real time and will call a halt to the rollout of any vaccine that raises concern based on the data.

The lessons from previous coronavirus vaccine attempts were known among the scientists developing the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Here's an article from September where the author discusses the results of numerous preclinical (animal) studies for SARS-CoV-2 and other relevant viruses.

Antibody-dependent enhancement and SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and therapies | Nature Microbiology

I'll see your study and raise you 2 more...

" However, the effect of Spike-specific immunity in protecting against lung injury mediated by immunopathological mechanisms is controversial. Cases of vaccine-induced immunity that help viral clearance and protect mice or ferrets against lethal challenge have been reported (58, 59). On the other hand, in African green monkeys the specific immune memory of SARS-CoV-1 induced by previous infection enhanced lung inflammation following a homologous challenge (60). Using Chinese rhesus macaques, Liu et al. (61) showed the protection of macaques against viral replication by an MVA-based vaccine. However, the same animals showed a concomitant enhancement of acute diffuse alveolar damage suggesting that S-specific immunity promotes Acute Lung Injury (ALI). In addition, in productively infected lungs, anti-Spike IgG caused severe ALI by abrogating a wound-healing macrophage response and TGF-ß production while promoting the production of proinflammatory cytokines IL-8 and MCP1 followed by the accumulation of inflammatory macrophages (6). SARS-CoV-1 infection of Chinese macaques is generally characterized by prompt control of viral replication and appearance of mild lung lesions (61)."


"Based on the available data on COVID-19 patients and data from the previous SARS-CoV-1 and MERS outbreaks, there is substantial evidence that cross-reactive B and T cell responses may establish an unfavorable environment for the primary immune response to SARS-CoV-2 virus."

Is Cross-Reactive Immunity Triggering COVID-19 Immunopathogenesis?

"There is an urgent need to develop animal models that mimic the natural infection in humans. Vaccines need to be tested in animal models for their safety and efficacy. Some of the candidate vaccines have been tested in monkeys; however, they do not develop the severe symptoms that SARS-CoV-2 causes in humans."


https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/8/4/739/pdf

 

[LaGu]

It's also a relatively simple concept that everyone doing this together has huge costs as well. People getting together drive the global economy.

Anyway. I am not some conspiracy nut. Actually, so much of this is perfectly rational. It is concentrated harm and dilute benefits. Everyone is scared and they see an immediate cost. The media feeds of stuff like this. What is the solution? Well first step is to allow people at least to express the costs that will come with lockdowns. Which I, and many others are doing.

This should not be political, or about what should or shouldn't be done. As you say, this is weighing the costs and benefits. All I will say is some one who thinks they are morally better, or clearly correct, assuming lockdowns had to be done, and that they save lives. That is just still very much up for debate. I am almost 100% certain the costs will outweigh the benefits big time. These things happen, was there some giant conspiracy by governments to start WW I? Just a silly example, the answer is no. But does anyone doubt the costs vastly out weighed the benefits? To move forward we need a clear picture. Right now all anyone is getting is saving the lives of those who would die of Covid, no one is talking about the mass of other costs. Listen to the podcast. Costs are MASSIVE!!!! This will be shown to be true in the years to come.

Lockdowns as in Wuhan in February? Sure. Lockdowns as in Italy/Spain this spring? Not convinced, short term with loads of stimulus cash coming in. Lockdown as Italy, France, UK this autumn? Not convinced at all, most measures are directly followed by aid programs and we're about to get vaccinated, so there is that.

A lockdown is not a lockdown, media is pushing the lockdown narrative because I guess it sells. But you cannot compare one with the other.

ps. I'd also also argue that thing like WWI does not just happen. We've put in some serious safeguards so that it does not happen.

 

[Dorian2]

Picked up some office supplies today at Staples, then Wine and Beyond for some extra vodka, and finally to Safeway to get the last bit of groceries. I am not going near a store for the next 5 days, I don't give a shit what we run out of.

After saying my diatribe to @Drivesaitl , I headed over to the unSafeway at Northgate. What a shit show that parking ot and store was.

 

[Stoneman89]

After saying my diatribe to @Drivesaitl , I headed over to the unSafeway at Northgate. What a shit show that parking ot and store was.

I was actually thinking of going to Costco today, as I have a coupon that needs to be used, but I thought better of it. Will wait till the craziness of the season settles down and go sometime in January.

 

[Stoneman89]

Latest updates

• Over the last 24 hours, 1,301 new cases were identified.
• There are 821 people in hospital due to COVID-19, including 146 in intensive care.
• There are 17,821 active cases in the province.
• To date, 75,070 Albertans have recovered from COVID-19.
• There was an increase of 19,222 tests (2,690,432 total) for a total of 1,626,216 people tested.
• The testing positivity rate is about 6.8 per cent.
• In the last 24 hours, there were 19 additional COVID-related deaths reported: one on Nov. 23, two on Dec. 12, one on Dec. 16, two on Dec. 17, one on Dec. 18, two on Dec. 19, seven on Dec. 21, and three on Dec. 22.

ICU cases down, and active cases down another 1000. I would expect both of these numbers to continue to drop for the next while. Quite a few tests yesterday.

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[CycloneSweep]

Why is it one or the other....no restrictions vs. tight lockdowns?

We don't have a strict lockdown though? A strict lockdown is what Italy did with law enforcement roaming the streets of what China did.

What we have now is absolutely not a strict lockdown,

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yesterday's SG was pretty damned good too.

They were both good enough for my wife to show me, lol, she knows my taste in such things and we share a sense of humor about physical attraction.. She was a former beauty queen herself having some high standards and they must have passed her visual inspection. They sure passed mine..

 

[Drivesaitl]

I was actually thinking of going to Costco today, as I have a coupon that needs to be used, but I thought better of it. Will wait till the craziness of the season settles down and go sometime in January.

No coupon, ever, needs to be used that badly, heh, and even the expiry dates on those seem kind of fictional. Most stores, and Costco accept them anyway.

 

[Drivesaitl]

After saying my diatribe to @Drivesaitl , I headed over to the unSafeway at Northgate. What a shit show that parking ot and store was.

7pts for braveness going to Northgate during Xmas buying madness. 5pts subtracted for picking that location which specially features stick em up parking lot sales..5pts more subtracted for going when its busy during a pandemic. But then you get 3pts more for Bravery. I'm bad at math..

 

[BlueCheeseWithWings]

It is alleged both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are effective against this "new" mutation found in the UK. Perfect timing to convince the 50% who do not plan on taking the vaccine to do the opposite.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Math

Mentally
Abusing
The
Humans

Gold!

Whatever genius made this up didn't exist when I was in school, not that I remember, I would have wrote that on the textbooks, or somebody would have...

 

[Dorian2]

7pts for braveness going to Northgate during Xmas buying madness. 5pts subtracted for picking that location which specially features stick em up parking lot sales..5pts more subtracted for going when its busy during a pandemic. But then you get 3pts more for Bravery. I'm bad at math..

Nothing brave about it. Although I did tell a cabby to f*** off when I walked in front of his car off 97 Street. But he was wearing a mask, so there's that. Prolly one of my neighbors...oh well.

 

[yukoner88]

Gold!

Whatever genius made this up didn't exist when I was in school, not that I remember, I would have wrote that on the textbooks, or somebody would have...

Honestly came up with that on the spot lol. I was hung up on the "H" for about 30secs, that was the best I could come up with.

 

[nabob]

We don't have a strict lockdown though? A strict lockdown is what Italy did with law enforcement roaming the streets of what China did.

What we have now is absolutely not a strict lockdown,

We have law enforcement roaming community skating rinks...

 

[Senor Catface]

We have law enforcement roaming community skating rinks...

I support a strong policy of "Stand Your Ground" legislation if anyone sees any Canucks or Flames jerseys out on public rinks.

 

[Oilslick941611]

I'm curious on how Ottawaites feel concerning the latest announcements and your mayors reaction? What are the folks you know saying? Lilley from the Toronto Sun sounded pretty upset this morning. Now your Mayor.

'RECKLESS AND IRRESPONSIBLE': Premier stands fast on Ottawa lockdown, accuses Mayor of playing politics | Ottawa Sun

I support the lockdown.

I work with the public and have antecdotly noticed more people from Quebec more than usual in our local spots. I also have to deal with anti maskers on a regular basis. I don't support blue politicians but Im with Ford on this.

 

[Raab]

It is alleged both the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are effective against this "new" mutation found in the UK. Perfect timing to convince the 50% who do not plan on taking the vaccine to do the opposite.

The new mutation only seems to spread faster, and the vaccines seem to increase your mortality risk. I know which choice I'm taking.

 

[Raab]

I support the lockdown.

I work with the public and have antecdotly noticed more people from Quebec more than usual in our local spots. I also have to deal with anti maskers on a regular basis. I don't support blue politicians but Im with Ford on this.

Ford, Pallister, Moe, and Kenney are not blue politicians, all should be ousted from their respective parties and new leaders chosen at the next AGM.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I support the lockdown.

I work with the public and have antecdotly noticed more people from Quebec more than usual in our local spots. I also have to deal with anti maskers on a regular basis. I don't support blue politicians but Im with Ford on this.

Most people with steady pay cheques do.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Most people with steady pay cheques do.

most people who care about others and the weak in society do as well.

I fall into both camps. However, my store will be curb side pickup.

Businesses come and go, if some fail, more will pop up and take their place, just like people, some will get very sick and die, I choose to protect people over businesses. Programs are available for financial help if your workplace closed as a result of the lockdown.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

most people who care about others and the weak in society do as well.

the loudest proponents for the lockdowns are the ones with the least amount to lose

I fall into both camps. However, my store will be curb side pickup.

Businesses come and go, if some fail, more will pop up and take their place, just like people, some will get very sick and die, I choose to protect people over businesses. Programs are available for financial help if your workplace closed as a result of the lockdown.

I choose to protect my family by feeding, clothing and providing a roof over their head with the money I earn by working and not relying on government handouts which will cost me thousands come income tax time

 

[Raab]

Todays shout out goes out to all the railway men out there. Keep the train on the tracks boys, and get that freight in on time. Hope you guys don't miss Hunter too much during this pandemic, when he would have made you work double, and not paid you for any of it! Thanks for what you do, and all the best in 2021! As always like the post or comment to show your support.

 

[Raab]

most people who care about others and the weak in society do as well.

I fall into both camps. However, my store will be curb side pickup.

Businesses come and go, if some fail, more will pop up and take their place, just like people, some will get very sick and die, I choose to protect people over businesses. Programs are available for financial help if your workplace closed as a result of the lockdown.

Show me the evidence it saves people, the fact is lockdowns INCREASE mortality. So if you're in favour of them, you're in favour of more deaths not less.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Raab]

But going to see your mom and dad for Christmas is the issue...