OT: Coronavirus XXXIII: Moderna Joins Pfizer as the Second Approved Vaccine in the US

[Yukon Joe]

You know high school math (including calculus) was fine. Enjoyed it even.

I went into science at U of M. I took a first year stats course that was all math - no problem.

It was that second year stats course that hit me like a brick wall. Only course I have ever dropped in my life.

 

[MaxR11]

In Christmas gesture, province slightly loosens holiday visitations amid falling case numbers | Calgary Herald

Tough call.... It's nice for people living alone to be able to see someone this Christmas but as Dr Ladha says, "relaxing the rules on family visitation sends the wrong signal to the public". Some people will now be able to use this to circumvent the rules. They know it's pretty hard for authorities to tell whether that was their first and only visit or if it was their 4th. Obviously some people would have flouted the rules anyway but this gives some of those who have a bit of respect for bylaws to circumvent them.
“They’re sending the message that if it’s safe to visit once, then we can see them a couple of times,” she said.
She's right... this is the message Kenney is sending to people unintentionally. In theory, not a bad rule to give some cheer to single people alone for the holidays but unfortunately, as we've seen through this pandemic, people are always looking for loopholes to circumvent bylaws or push the limit on rules.

 

[CycloneSweep]

In Christmas gesture, province slightly loosens holiday visitations amid falling case numbers | Calgary Herald

Tough call.... It's nice for people living alone to be able to see someone this Christmas but as Dr Ladha says, "relaxing the rules on family visitation sends the wrong signal to the public". Some people will now be able to use this to circumvent the rules. They know it's pretty hard for authorities to tell whether that was their first and only visit or if it was their 4th. Obviously some people would have flouted the rules anyway but this gives some of those who have a bit of respect for bylaws to circumvent them.
“They’re sending the message that if it’s safe to visit once, then we can see them a couple of times,” she said.
She's right... this is the message Kenney is sending to people unintentionally. In theory, not a bad rule to give some cheer to single people alone for the holidays but unfortunately, as we've seen through this pandemic, people are always looking for loopholes to circumvent bylaws or push the limit on rules.

Dude come on. It's not about giving some cheer, it's literally about saving lives. The holidays are often very hard on people mentally and suicides are high, allowing single and alone people the ability to go see family is fine. Yes there are people who were going to break this anyways but it doesn't send the wrong message.

The message it sends is clear. We care about the people right now, and if we have to tweak restrictions to keep people alive we will. No one should be forced to be alone during the holidays, it's absolutely cruel, and allowing people to not be alone is a very good thing, the "bad messaging" be damned. The fact that the so called Doctor considers it bad messaging, is disgusting. She clearly has no care for people's mental well being.

I'm a very left leaning person but if you see negative in this you are intentionally trying to find something negative to look for.

 

[MaxR11]

Dude come on. It's not about giving some cheer, it's literally about saving lives. The holidays are often very hard on people mentally and suicides are high, allowing single and alone people the ability to go see family is fine. Yes there are people who were going to break this anyways but it doesn't send the wrong message.

The message it sends is clear. We care about the people right now, and if we have to tweak restrictions to keep people alive we will.

I'm a very left leaning person but if you see negative in this you are intentionally trying to find something negative to look for.

Like i said, I like the exception to allow the single people to visit ONCE, in general, but the Dr is right that it sends the wrong message for some people. As we've seen and like I said, some people are always looking for ways to circumvent the rules.

 

[nabob]

Dude come on. It's not about giving some cheer, it's literally about saving lives. The holidays are often very hard on people mentally and suicides are high, allowing single and alone people the ability to go see family is fine. Yes there are people who were going to break this anyways but it doesn't send the wrong message.

The message it sends is clear. We care about the people right now, and if we have to tweak restrictions to keep people alive we will. No one should be forced to be alone during the holidays, it's absolutely cruel, and allowing people to not be alone is a very good thing, the "bad messaging" be damned. The fact that the so called Doctor considers it bad messaging, is disgusting. She clearly has no care for people's mental well being.

I'm a very left leaning person but if you see negative in this you are intentionally trying to find something negative to look for.

some people simply aren’t able to look beyond their own self. Either that, or as you said he’s looking for reasons to be negative, even in cases where the good far outweighs the potential bad.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Like i said, I like the exception to allow the single people to visit ONCE, in general, but the Dr is right that it sends the wrong message for some people. As we've seen and like I said, some people are always looking for ways to circumvent the rules.

If that sends the wrong message for some people than can't you argue if they did nothing and forced single, alone people to HAVE to break restrictions for their mental health and not to be alone during the holidays, is sending the wrong message too?

I've said this before. They know people will skirt whatever measures are in place, so you know what they do? If someone visiting for 3 days is fine, they will say 1 day. If 5 people are okay by their numbers they will say no body.

It's a small exemption, and if that sends the wrong message to some people, those people are looking for reasons to shit on anything that's not everyone being bolted into their houses until Covid is gone.

 

[Drivesaitl]

In Christmas gesture, province slightly loosens holiday visitations amid falling case numbers | Calgary Herald

Tough call.... It's nice for people living alone to be able to see someone this Christmas but as Dr Ladha says, "relaxing the rules on family visitation sends the wrong signal to the public". Some people will now be able to use this to circumvent the rules. They know it's pretty hard for authorities to tell whether that was their first and only visit or if it was their 4th. Obviously some people would have flouted the rules anyway but this gives some of those who have a bit of respect for bylaws to circumvent them.
“They’re sending the message that if it’s safe to visit once, then we can see them a couple of times,” she said.
She's right... this is the message Kenney is sending to people unintentionally. In theory, not a bad rule to give some cheer to single people alone for the holidays but unfortunately, as we've seen through this pandemic, people are always looking for loopholes to circumvent bylaws or push the limit on rules.

How many times do you have to cite the same article and same source?

Dr. Tehseen Ladha said relaxing the rules on family visitation sends the wrong signal to the public.
“They’re sending the message that if it’s safe to visit once, then we can see them a couple of times,” she said.
“A lot of these visits will be dinners, without masks and if they’re done with elderly parents, that creates a real risk.”


Yes, the risk is understood. That said Opiate deaths in the province, since the pandemic started, have greatly outstripped Covid deaths. Risks, especially at Xmas time, with more Suicides, OD's than ever, and DURING a time of imposed isolation. That is a quantum risk the Doctor apparently cannot understand, and only see's it one way.

Its annoying as well how many educated people speak in absolutes. She could state the same reasonable parsing her statements as "could" or Potentially" instead of stating her opinion on the matter as fact, of how people will take this, or respond.

 

[nabob]

Like i said, I like the exception to allow the single people to visit ONCE, in general, but the Dr is right that it sends the wrong message for some people. As we've seen and like I said, some people are always looking for ways to circumvent the rules.

The doctor is the one sending the wrong message. She’s validating people who are looking for ways to break the rules. It’s absolutely mind blowing that a person who acts as righteous as you do can possibly support what she is saying.

in my opinion that doctor should have her license pulled for spreading misinformation and encouraging people to break Covid rules. She’s a joke.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Dude come on. It's not about giving some cheer, it's literally about saving lives. The holidays are often very hard on people mentally and suicides are high, allowing single and alone people the ability to go see family is fine. Yes there are people who were going to break this anyways but it doesn't send the wrong message.

The message it sends is clear. We care about the people right now, and if we have to tweak restrictions to keep people alive we will. No one should be forced to be alone during the holidays, it's absolutely cruel, and allowing people to not be alone is a very good thing, the "bad messaging" be damned. The fact that the so called Doctor considers it bad messaging, is disgusting. She clearly has no care for people's mental well being.

I'm a very left leaning person but if you see negative in this you are intentionally trying to find something negative to look for.

Wonderful post, must read, thank you for it!

Nailed it with the bolded as well. Couldn't say it better, and I don't know what it is these days but DR's in the past, they would have a General Practitioner concept as well, or Generalist, of all things. Now they seem so piecemeal and Like they can't see the forest for the trees. All kinds of risks exist to people, the Govt seems to understand this better than the braying Doctors.

 

[CycloneSweep]

some people simply aren’t able to look beyond their own self. Either that, or as you said he’s looking for reasons to be negative, even in cases where the good far outweighs the potential bad.

For or against lockdowns, the one thing that is true for everyone making these decisions is it's a balancing act on risk. Do the risks outweigh the benefits. Now you can argue which is better but the point will always stands. The government sees these slight restrictions lifts as more beneficial to the populace than keeping them for those dates.

This is the first decision I've seen where the messaging is legit clear too. They actually do give a shit and found a way to help in the safest way they could find.

 

[MaxR11]

If that sends the wrong message for some people than can't you argue if they did nothing and forced single, alone people to HAVE to break restrictions for their mental health and not to be alone during the holidays, is sending the wrong message too?

I've said this before. They know people will skirt whatever measures are in place, so you know what they do? If someone visiting for 3 days is fine, they will say 1 day. If 5 people are okay by their numbers they will say no body.

It's a small exemption, and if that sends the wrong message to some people, those people are looking for reasons to shit on anything that's not everyone being bolted into their houses until Covid is gone.

Weren't singles already allowed to visit another household (with certain stipulations)? Wasn't it like up to 2 singles can visit another household?

 

[nabob]

For or against lockdowns, the one thing that is true for everyone making these decisions is it's a balancing act on risk. Do the risks outweigh the benefits. Now you can argue which is better but the point will always stands. The government sees these slight restrictions lifts as more beneficial to the populace than keeping them for those dates.

This is the first decision I've seen where the messaging is legit clear too. They actually do give a shit and found a way to help in the safest way they could find.

the message couldn’t have been want clearer. Yet this brain dead doctor intentionally misrepresented it to say the opposite...and HK somehow backs her.

 

[nabob]

Weren't singles already allowed to visit another household (with certain stipulations)? Wasn't it like up to 2 singles can visit another household?

Singles could only visit singles. And only have the same two people designated as their “group”.

for someone who acts like they know everything you don’t even know the basic rules that were laid out 2 weeks ago...


Get out of your bubble on Twitter and try actually paying attention during the daily conferences and updates. Try leaving politics out of it and think of people instead of having your hatred cloud everything. Seriously man it will be incredibly refreshing.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Weren't singles already allowed to visit another household (with certain stipulations)? Wasn't it like up to 2 singles can visit another household?

Jesus no.
If you lived alone you could visit up to 2 other people who also lived alone. Which mostly works for some young people. It doesn't help grandma who had her husband pass away earlier in the year and has to spend her first Christmas without her husband, without anyone? Think she will make it thru the holiday?

The rule in general is fine for the what 4 weeks it is in place, but over the holidays? Forcing those people alone will literally kill people. Not potentially. It would straight up lead to more deaths than it would save.

 

[MaxR11]

How many times do you have to cite the same article and same source?

Dr. Tehseen Ladha said relaxing the rules on family visitation sends the wrong signal to the public.
“They’re sending the message that if it’s safe to visit once, then we can see them a couple of times,” she said.
“A lot of these visits will be dinners, without masks and if they’re done with elderly parents, that creates a real risk.”


Yes, the risk is understood. That said Opiate deaths in the province, since the pandemic started, have greatly outstripped Covid deaths. Risks, especially at Xmas time, with more Suicides, OD's than ever, and DURING a time of imposed isolation. That is a quantum risk the Doctor apparently cannot understand, and only see's it one way.

Its annoying as well how many educated people speak in absolutes. She could state the same reasonable parsing her statements as "could" or Potentially" instead of stating her opinion on the matter as fact, of how people will take this, or respond.

Um, I've only cited it once.

Anyway, ya she maybe should have used the terms "could" or "potentially".

 

[CycloneSweep]

Um, I've only cited it once.

Anyway, ya she maybe should have used the terms "could" or "potentially".

Yes but like a lot of activists she chose her words intentionally and didn't look to see what the benefits could be. For a doctor she doesn't seem to really think to much.
Usually doctors weigh the risks of treatments, sounds like she wouldn't and that's absolutely terrifying.

 

[McGoMcD]

Dude come on. It's not about giving some cheer, it's literally about saving lives. The holidays are often very hard on people mentally and suicides are high, allowing single and alone people the ability to go see family is fine. Yes there are people who were going to break this anyways but it doesn't send the wrong message.

The message it sends is clear. We care about the people right now, and if we have to tweak restrictions to keep people alive we will. No one should be forced to be alone during the holidays, it's absolutely cruel, and allowing people to not be alone is a very good thing, the "bad messaging" be damned. The fact that the so called Doctor considers it bad messaging, is disgusting. She clearly has no care for people's mental well being.

I'm a very left leaning person but if you see negative in this you are intentionally trying to find something negative to look for.

What a Bizzaro world we live in. If we crack down then it is about saving lives, if we losen things up it's about saving lives. Also, when did we start living in 1984 when everyone is listening for every order from big brother on what they are allowed to do???

Big Brother says I can get together with my parents, but only if I live alone.

Anyway, here was a great podcast if anyone cares to listen. Anyone who claims to be on moral high ground by wanting more restrictions should listen. Covid kills people, but the restrictions impose incredible harm too.

Jay Bhattacharya on the Pandemic - Econlib

 

[CycloneSweep]

Wonderful post, must read, thank you for it!

Nailed it with the bolded as well. Couldn't say it better, and I don't know what it is these days but DR's in the past, they would have a General Practitioner concept as well, or Generalist, of all things. Now they seem so piecemeal and Like they can't see the forest for the trees. All kinds of risks exist to people, the Govt seems to understand this better than the braying Doctors.

Is she the kind of doctor that would do a surgery that would save your left leg but in turn would kill your right? She is a pediatrician and wants to leave Alberta apparently. I usually am on a we should be trying to keep Drs here but she sounds like one I would be very glad to see go as it would clearly be beneficial to Albertans if she practices anything like the way she talks

 

[nabob]

Um, I've only cited it once.

Anyway, ya she maybe should have used the terms "could" or "potentially".

she could have just encouraged people to follow the rules as they were very clearly laid out instead of telling the public to break the rules.

people could or potentially could have massive parties as well. People could break any rules they want. Nothing the government laid out tells people to break the rules as she suggests.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The doctor is the one sending the wrong message. She’s validating people who are looking for ways to break the rules. It’s absolutely mind blowing that a person who acts as righteous as you do can possibly support what she is saying.

in my opinion that doctor should have her license pulled for spreading misinformation and encouraging people to break Covid rules. She’s a joke.

Theres a long line up of them here unfortunately. I'll be blunt. We seem to have a high proportion of Doctors here in our hospitals that happen to also be assholes. everybody has an opinion. Some of these Doctors are incessantly voicing their angry opinion on twitter, as if they are right about everything, every 5 minutes. Its really a bad look what some of them have been stating throughout the pandemic and bordering on contempt for Alberta, and Albertans. Some of their diatribe, they really don't seem to get it, its saying basically that people will behave as assholes. Because its how they are viewing the world, or at least Albertans. Some of them seem not to like this province, or its people, at all.

Thats the unique rub with Alberta. We're so migrant heavy here a lot of the people that are here have a bone to pick with Alberta. Sometimes it gets tiring, grating. To some of these Doctors, maybe stop threatening and whining about leaving sometime and leave. Their heart isn't here anyway it would seem.

Too much to expect some of these people to even shutup Xmas Holidays? I mean given that they are paid by the province they seemingly despise.

This is one of the comments on the Calgary Herald;

"It just goes to prove bertabillies can't be educated"

Says a lot, and its a hateful invective that isn't rarely expressed. Its flat out trolling Alberta.

rant over (probably not..)

 

[CycloneSweep]

What a Bizzaro world we live in. If we crack down then it is about saving lives, if we losen things up it's about saving lives. Also, when did we start living in 1984 when everyone is listening for every order from big brother on what they are allowed to do???

Big Brother says I can get together with my parents, but only if I live alone.

Anyway, here was a great podcast if anyone cares to listen. Anyone who claims to be on moral high ground by wanting more restrictions should listen. Covid kills people, but the restrictions impose incredible harm too.

Jay Bhattacharya on the Pandemic - Econlib

It's a Bizarro world called reality?
Too much of anything can cause harm, and it's always been like that.

Look at it like this. Say zero lockdowns kills/destroys 500 people from Covid and full lock the doors fend for yourself the world stops lockdowns kill/destroys 500 people. Neither option is very good, so what you do is you find a point where the Covid deaths drop without severely increasing the lockdown related deaths and loses. Say your numbers go no social gatherings and limited shopping reduces Covid deaths to 100 and raises the restriction related deaths to 100. You are saving 300 people. Now over the holidays say the number jumps up to 150 restriction related deaths but if you ease back a little bit it drops that to 125 but raises Covid deaths to 105. You do it cause it's saving lives

It's a very fine balancing act. My numbers above are made up just to explain a point. NONE of the options will save everyone. Every option has consequences, it's all about loss management. People will die and suffer loses no matter what, it's all about mitigating it as much as possible, which is on going and constantly changing

 

[Drivesaitl]

For or against lockdowns, the one thing that is true for everyone making these decisions is it's a balancing act on risk. Do the risks outweigh the benefits. Now you can argue which is better but the point will always stands. The government sees these slight restrictions lifts as more beneficial to the populace than keeping them for those dates.

This is the first decision I've seen where the messaging is legit clear too. They actually do give a shit and found a way to help in the safest way they could find.

The Prov Govt, as I've regularly stated deserve more credit than they are given. We've had a much more nuanced and thoughtful response throughout, than most jurisdictions and from early on it was the right call for them to not follow National lead or that of WHO, CDC, etc. I mean Kenney was STATING that as early as FEB/MARCH way before most of the world found out how wrong those entities were throughout the pandemic.

What we actually have is a govt that will sitdown closed doors and discuss what to do for as long as 8hrs at a time. Working hard to come up with potential solutions, responses, this is not platform response we're getting, we're getting uniquely honed responses, targeted measures, allowance of certain exceptions. These are tough calls and they been an informed side of so many of them.

 

[MaxR11]

Jesus no.
If you lived alone you could visit up to 2 other people who also lived alone. Which mostly works for some young people. It doesn't help grandma who had her husband pass away earlier in the year and has to spend her first Christmas without her husband, without anyone? Think she will make it thru the holiday?

The rule in general is fine for the what 4 weeks it is in place, but over the holidays? Forcing those people alone will literally kill people. Not potentially. It would straight up lead to more deaths than it would save.

The exception is fine and makes sense. I'm just saying the Dr has a point in that it does open up avenues for some people to circumvent things as well as potentially send the wrong message.
Give some people an inch and they take a mile. Parent eases some rules the kid pushes as far as he/she can go and further. But in this case the benefits may outweigh the risks as it would still be smaller scaled get togethers. I think people like the Dr would have less qualms about the exception if Albertans had shown they were more responsible in previous months.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Theres a long line up of them here unfortunately. I'll be blunt. We seem to have a high proportion of Doctors here in our hospitals that happen to also be assholes. everybody has an opinion. Some of these Doctors are incessantly voicing their angry opinion on twitter, as if they are right about everything, every 5 minutes. Its really a bad look what some of them have been stating throughout the pandemic and bordering on contempt for Alberta, and Albertans. Some of their diatribe, they really don't seem to get it, its saying basically that people will behave as assholes. Because its how they are viewing the world, or at least Albertans. Some of them seem not to like this province, or its people, at all.

Thats the unique rub with Alberta. We're so migrant heavy here a lot of the people that are here have a bone to pick with Alberta. Sometimes it gets tiring, grating. To some of these Doctors, maybe stop threatening and whining about leaving sometime and leave. Their heart isn't here anyway it would seem.

Too much to expect some of these people to even shutup Xmas Holidays? I mean given that they are paid by the province they seemingly despise.

rant over (probably not..)

I do think a lot of the doctors did have points and Shandro really f***ed up in so many god damn ways.

But now these doctors are so mad and hateful, they can't see past that hate and think everything they do must be bad in some way. Which is sad.

Like I absolutely hate Shandro and Kenney, I think so much of what they do is awful, but I'm not going to find ways to hate the GOOD things that they do, because that's nonsensical. Like I'm not going to cheer them on or anything but I'm also not going to shit on them and find ways to spin a good thing into the bad.

 

[Stoneman89]

Um, I've only cited it once.

Anyway, ya she maybe should have used the terms "could" or "potentially".

No, she should have just shut her yap on this completely. It made her look very petty and unfeeling. And considering the fact she is on record as being very local about leaving the province due to the earlier doctors dispute, it is obvious she is dragging her political agenda into this, and is going to criticize nearly anything this government does. Interestingly, she has no comment about the declining numbers the last couple weeks, when in the past, she had no problem speaking regularly when things were on the rise.