Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Ogrezilla]

You see the trip to Mars as murder. I view it as legacy-defining for certain people. The same way in the military some people volunteer for suicide missions.

it can be both legacy defining and murder.

 

[ChaosAgent]

it can be both legacy defining and murder.

Sure. I believe in assisted suicide too Fwiw.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

because it's a suicide mission essentially.

What????

If you are young and fit, and get infected, you could die. But the chances are very small. Most who die from this have underlying conditions, from age to heart, etc.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sure. I believe in assisted suicide too Fwiw.

maybe for a terminal patient where it's basically pulling the plug. If an otherwise physically healthy person wants assist with their suicide, send them for mental help. But honestly, even that's better than sending them to Mars I think. At least in that case we would never find out if/when they change their mind after it's too late.

 

[EightyOne]

People sign up all of the time for medical trials

Usually for zero compensation or like $25 Amazon card

It's how things get tested and approved

I think it's ok

I would imagine not nearly enough people or be diverse enough will actually sign up for this for it to be meaningful, though

Has anyone said how many would be needed to even help? 50k? 250k? 1mil?

 

[Ogrezilla]

What????

If you are young and fit, and get infected, you could die. But the chances are very small. Most who die from this have underlying conditions, from age to heart, etc.

I don't think underlying conditions are terribly relevant to your chance of survival on a one way trip to Mars

but yeah, you missed a bit of the conversation obviously

 

[Ryder71]

Oh FFS.

It's cause of viral load.

I'm fully aware of that, but individuals who are obese are more likely to have compromised immune systems. It's not a slight on these people, it's just a fact.

 

[Ogrezilla]

People sign up all of the time for medical trials

Usually for zero compensation or like $25 Amazon card

It's how things get tested and approved

I think it's ok

I would imagine not nearly enough people or be diverse enough will actually sign up for this for it to be meaningful, though

Has anyone said how many would be needed to even help? 50k? 250k? 1mil?

I guess it really depends on when this testing is happening and how confident we are in it.

Also, I hate it WAY more with money involved. Now you aren't getting people trying to do the right thing, you are preying on people who are probably desperate. Edit: I'm an idiot.

 

[EightyOne]

I don't think underlying conditions are terribly relevant to your chance of survival on a one way trip to Mars

Claustrophobia maybe

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't think underlying conditions are terribly relevant to your chance of survival on a one way trip to Mars

Your chance of survival from being alive is approximately 0.0000%

 

[Ryder71]

Your comments are pretty rad.

Super Genius Jr.

Aren't fat people more at risk?

 

[Ryder71]

Sure. I believe in assisted suicide too Fwiw.

Uh, I need you to come over and help me with something.










Seriously

 

[EightyOne]

I guess it really depends on when this testing is happening and how confident we are in it.

Also, I hate it WAY more with money involved. Now you aren't getting people trying to do the right thing, you are preying on people who are probably desperate.

Of course you can't pay because then it's not voluntary lol

But even now most trials are just..sign here..You may or may not have any reactions...thanks

 

[Ogrezilla]

Of course you can't pay because then it's not voluntary lol

But even now most trials are just..sign here..You may or may not have any reactions...thanks

Apparently I'm skimming and just saw the numbers and am an idiot

 

[Ryder71]

And SOOOO many on the medical field smoke like chimneys! It's wild.

True, so true.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Uh, I need you to come over and help me with something.










Seriously

I don't want to do illegal stuff. But I do think under some circumstances people should have a right to die instead of a long, painful and pointless running-out-of-the-string

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Yep.
I think you and I went over this exact conversation before. Pretty sure it was with you... maybe not.

I didn't post what I posted to bring up the mask issue, but you asked so I told ya. That poster said wearing masks will now be a normal thing in society... not for me.
Anyone who wants to wear one, go right ahead. Outside of the grocery store... I'm not wearing anything. If I get sick... and eventually I will... that is life... can't stop it.

I need my immune system for when I get up in age anyway... can't hide under a mask to fix everything. If something gets me and takes me, well, I mean... what can you do? We all go sometime.

This is excessively selfish and ignorant thinking. Shameful, even. Life isn't about YOU. It's about US.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't want to do illegal stuff. But I do think under some circumstances people should have a right to die instead of a long, painful and pointless running-out-of-the-string

I concur sir!

 

[EightyOne]

Your chance of survival from being alive is approximately 0.0000%

This is a slippery slope to full on nihilism...Lol...I've gone down that hole enough...It's easy to come up with life being inherently pointless

Apparently I'm skimming and just saw the numbers and am an idiot

Eh. Its cool. It's hard to keep up.

I only pop in here every few days. Get mad. Get people mad at me. Then peace out. See I'm five pages behind, skim up to current, and start process over.

There's nothing we can do about anything, really. So I try not to get too wrapped up.

 

[billybudd]

I'm having trouble following this. Are we suggesting that we infect people intentionally via injection or that we infect medical professionals, specifically, intentionally? The latter is an utterly terrible idea.

Medical professionals are already more unhealthy than the average person (poor access to quality nutrition while working, weird sleep/wake cycles, frequent simultaneous exposure to a variety of low-intensity pathogens, many have high cortisol levels, many are sun-starved and vit D depleted due to their work schedule), exist in a shortage and take a long ass time to train (years longer than they should at a cost ten times what is justifiable, but the NFP university and licensing rackets are a topic of discussion for another day).

If we're just talking about infecting young, healthy, non-medical people on purpose (which is not to be confused with the Swedish strategy, in which they set conditions to allow for the possibility of this class of person becoming infected, but don't directly cause it), that makes a certain sort of sense, but is still a bad idea because Covid is not well-understood enough yet. In almost every case, these people would be fine, but in a small number, you'd be condemning them to a horrible, pointless death needlessly. You would need to know exactly what the complicating factors for Covid are and nobody does yet because it's too new.

The mayor of New York, for example, explained the covid death of a young healthy person as due to lung inflammation from vaping. Now, the mayor of New York has no idea what he's talking about ever, but presumably he got this idea from health officials who I would expect to have at least some notion. However, France insists that nicotine is a massive mitigating agent of covid-19, and seem to have the data to back it up, even if they only have theories on the mechanics of how.

So, which is it, does vaping exacerbate covid or mitigate it? If it's both--that lung inflammation causes covid complications AND that nicotine mitigates covid, where are the lines that dictate when each thing matters more than the other?

You need to be able to answer questions like this better than we can before undertaking an outside-the-box solution such as this one.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm having trouble following this. Are we suggesting that we infect people intentionally via injection or that we infect medical professionals, specifically, intentionally? The latter is an utterly terrible idea.

Medical professionals are already more unhealthy than the average person (poor access to quality nutrition while working, weird sleep/wake cycles, frequent simultaneous exposure to a variety of low-intensity pathogens, many have high cortisol levels, many are sun-starved and vit D depleted due to their work schedule), exist in a shortage and take a long ass time to train (years longer than they should at a cost ten times what is justifiable, but the NFP university and licensing rackets are a topic of discussion for another day).

If we're just talking about infecting young, healthy, non-medical people on purpose (which is not to be confused with the Swedish strategy, in which they set conditions to allow for the possibility of this class of person becoming infected, but don't directly cause it), that makes a certain sort of sense, but is still a bad idea because Covid is not well-understood enough yet. In almost every case, these people would be fine, but in a small number, you'd be condemning them to a horrible, pointless death needlessly. You would need to know exactly what the complicating factors for Covid are and nobody does yet because it's too new.

The mayor of New York, for example, explained the covid death of a young healthy person as due to lung inflammation from vaping. Now, the mayor of New York has no idea what he's talking about ever, but presumably he got this idea from health officials who I would expect to have at least some notion. However, France insists that nicotine is a massive mitigating agent of covid-19, and seem to have the data to back it up, even if they only have theories on the mechanics of how.

So, which is it, does vaping exacerbate covid or mitigate it? If it's both--that lung inflammation causes covid complications AND that nicotine mitigates covid, where are the lines that dictate when each thing matters more than the other?

You need to be able to answer questions like this better than we can before undertaking an outside-the-box solution such as this one.

It's going get trial vaccine ---> get exposed to virus. For healthy people. So you don't have to wait around to see if your vaccine trial person would have contracted the disease anyway. You make it pretty frigging likely out the chute.

That's the idea as I understand it, anyway.

 

[billybudd]

It's going get trial vaccine ---> get exposed to virus. For healthy people. So you don't have to wait around to see if your vaccine trial person would have contracted the disease anyway. You make it pretty frigging likely out the chute.

That's the idea as I understand it, anyway.

Boy, I'd really prefer using bonobos or chimps for the heavy lifting on that.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Boy, I'd really prefer using bonobos or chimps for the heavy lifting on that.

Haven't they already been doing that? As for getting exposed to the virus, as a young and (physically) healthy person I wouldn't mind at all. There'd be no guesswork in my quarantine, they'd probably feed me snacks, and I'd have a 1-in-2000 chance of dying. Big whoop. Plus then I'd get to come out the other side with immunity.

I'd worry more about vaccine side effects or vaccine-virus interactions

 

[Jacob]

I don't want to do illegal stuff. But I do think under some circumstances people should have a right to die instead of a long, painful and pointless running-out-of-the-string

I’d certainly rather go out on my own terms.

 

[Jacob]

What I want to know is how people sign up for these trials like remdesivir. I’m sure many would agree to take an experimental antiviral but what about the placebo arm.. These are patients with severe disease and half are given nothing? How do you get consent on that and even if you do how can you be sure the patient understands what is happening?


I don’t see an issue with the challenge trials as much since the pool is (I assume) healthy and low risk and, without a vaccine, they’re likely to get the disease eventually anyway. Seems no different than donating an organ or being a fireman.