Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals Part 2

[HeyMattyB]

I was just reading this article about Covid/Vaccination analogies (as a means to convince anti-vaxxers to get vaccinated), which seems appropriate.

Scott, who leads vaccine outreach efforts in her community, told me she’s been favoring a different analogy: casting the spread of infection as fire, and humans as the kindling that the flames need to persist. I’ve tried this one myself, and vaccines fit in nicely, too. They’re sprays of flame [resistance] that can waylay fire on the move, while also shielding vegetation from the worst of the burn. The more trees are protected, the sooner the fire has nowhere left to go.

Another option: thwarting bugs with insecticides, given that curbing an infestation in one apartment slashes the chances that it will move next door. Michael D. L. Johnson, an immunologist at the University of Arizona, offers a vivid alternative—installing a toilet in lieu of defecating in a bucket “and smearing it over your front lawn,” which would make the neighbors very unhappy and potentially seriously sick.

EDIT: Whoa, the "flame [resistant]" quote set off an automated correction? I changed it up.

 

[Calicaps]

As I’ve told people on here — I developed Grover’s Disease literally 4 days after my first shot. Which is a very rare autoimmune disease. I’m autoimmune comprised as it is (cancer survivor — Lymphoma).

so I took a brand new autoimmune Vaxx with an autoimmune comprised system and I got a rare autoimmune disease.

let’s all do ourselves a favour and not pretend it’s a coincidence.

Please note above where I said it's safe unless you have certain conditions. My friend has Crohn's Disease and has had a heck of a time post-vaccine, but he's not blaming the shot because he understands that yeah, it affects immune responses. That doesn't actually mean it's unsafe or defective in some way.

 

[g00n]

As I’ve told people on here — I developed Grover’s Disease literally 4 days after my first shot. Which is a very rare autoimmune disease. I’m autoimmune comprised as it is (cancer survivor — Lymphoma).

so I took a brand new autoimmune Vaxx with an autoimmune comprised system and I got a rare autoimmune disease.

let’s all do ourselves a favour and not pretend it’s a coincidence.

should everyone be afraid of this? NO. But can shit happen? YES

And as I told you I had a shingles outbreak on my face and in my eye 3 days after my 2nd shot, but it got better and I'm not dead of COVID.

Vaccines work. They're worth it. There have been BILLIONS of doses administered worldwide. Our extremely rare little anecdotal hiccups don't matter much in comparison.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Please note above where I said it's safe unless you have certain conditions. My friend has Crohn's Disease and has had a heck of a time post-vaccine, but he's not blaming the shot because he understands that yeah, it affects immune responses. That doesn't actually mean it's unsafe or defective in some way.

I do blame the shot. 100%.

do I think it gave me Grover’s? Of course not. Did it allow for it to come out? Of course it did.

the issue is that our entire systems have finite capabilities to fight diseases. Generally, we all have a certain amount of space to fight certain things. You overload your system towards one thing and here we are.

it is what it is.

it’s easy. We Do Not Walk In Each Others Shoes.

don’t try to. Ever

 

[HeyMattyB]

I'd prefer not to walk in the shoes of someone who got Covid (as a result of refusing to get vaccinated).

 

[Ridley Simon]

And as I told you I had a shingles outbreak on my face and in my eye 3 days after my 2nd shot, but it got better and I'm not dead of COVID.

Vaccines work. They're worth it. There have been BILLIONS of doses administered worldwide. Our extremely rare little anecdotal hiccups don't matter much in comparison.

I still have the Grover’s. I cannot work out, be in the sun, or create anything that over heats me.

5 mo later. With no end in sight. My life has changed immeasurably. My lost ability to stay in shape has harmed me a lot. Gained 20lbs which at 51 will be a bitch to get rid of.

As much as a case of COVID? No clue. But I’d gone a year being safe from COVID already. And here I am.

no disrespect, but don’t play what if games here. You are only speaking from your own shoes. Not mine

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'd prefer not to walk in the shoes of someone who got Covid (as a result of refusing to get vaccinated).

It’s not just either or for some of us brother. Or are you not understanding that

 

[Calicaps]

I do blame the shot. 100%.

do I think it gave me Grover’s? Of course not. Did it allow for it to come out? Of course it did.

the issue is that our entire systems have finite capabilities to fight diseases. Generally, we all have a certain amount of space to fight certain things. You overload your system towards one thing and here we are.

it is what it is.

it’s easy. We Do Not Walk In Each Others Shoes.

don’t try to. Ever

Don't misunderstand me. My friend knows the shot triggered his flare up. But he doesn't "blame" it because he understood that being immune-compromised was one of the risk factors and that COVID is more dangerous.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Don't misunderstand me. My friend knows the shot triggered his flare up. But he doesn't "blame" it because he understood that being immune-compromised was one of the risk factors and that COVID is more dangerous.

But hold on. The reactions to this within our society — heck, even on this board — to those that hesitate is “YOU IDIOT”. Maybe not from you. But a lot of people.

and the evidence toward what can happen to someone by getting the shots is SO inconclusive, as it’s only 8mo old. How can anyone know?

there is no screening beforehand. “Hey man, you’ll get this thing called Grover’s disease if you take the shot…you still in??””

as a father to 3 small kids, YES, I’m still in. I care about them more than anyone. And I mean ANYONE.

But if I was a single man who could follow protocols and NOT have this asshole of a disease?

pretty simple. NO SHOTS

PS — no one wants to hear this shit. I get it. I wouldn’t (dont) either. The point of my life (story) is to not make general assumptions toward anyone. Are there people being belligerent about this, that maybe shouldn’t be? For sure there are. But are there also people that don’t know what they don’t know and should be concerned about all of this?

YES. X 1000. Yes there are.

like I said earlier. Try to understand walking in someone’s else’s shoes before we pass decisions on their choices.

and PPS — if people can’t get this, then they (we) are also part of the problem. You just are.

 

[HeyMattyB]

It’s not just either or for some of us brother. Or are you not understanding that

I understand your personal experience, which you've clearly laid out, and how that experience has informed your particular view regarding vaccines. You absolutely have my sympathy (if that's of any worth to you), and I certainly won't discount your lived experience.

However, obviously, you're not the only person with Covid-related experience (direct or indirect). For example, both my mother and her wife--two immunocompromised women in their 60s, who work together--got Covid from a coworker who refused to get vaccinated. The coworker didn't refuse the vaccine for any medical reason. She just didn't want the shot. She was asymptomatic, so she didn't know she had it, then she came into the office and gave my mother and her wife Covid. It was very ugly for both of them. Whenever one of them called, I was terrified it'd be bad news. (Also... did I mention that the three of them worked in a DOCTOR'S OFFICE? And, as administrative employees, my mother and her wife were then responsible for getting in touch with patients who had come into the office during that time to disclose that they had been exposed to Covid. Sad LOLs.)

From my perspective, that's some next-level selfish/reckless assholery on the coworker's part. So yeah, I ask that you don't discount how my personal experience has informed my own particular view regarding vaccines. Which is, if you don't have a valid reason not to do so (medical or otherwise), FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, GET VACCINATED.

I thank you, in advance, for your understanding of my position on the matter.

 

[g00n]

I still have the Grover’s. I cannot work out, be in the sun, or create anything that over heats me.

5 mo later. With no end in sight. My life has changed immeasurably. My lost ability to stay in shape has harmed me a lot. Gained 20lbs which at 51 will be a bitch to get rid of.

As much as a case of COVID? No clue. But I’d gone a year being safe from COVID already. And here I am.

no disrespect, but don’t play what if games here. You are only speaking from your own shoes. Not mine

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that but it doesn't change the big picture. I'm not speaking just from my experience but the much, much bigger data.

FWIW it seems you might be able to get Grover's from COVID, too.

https://www.afamed.org/Document/Download/skin manifestations in covid-19_846a6ec.pdf

My theory? You and I may have already had COVID (I got very sick with COVID-like symptoms in Dec 2020) and the extra "boost" from the vaccine may have triggered our hyper-immune responses. In your case latent GD and in mine shingles (some people say they got GD after a shingles vaccine, fwiw, so there's some kind of connection there).

 

[g00n]

But hold on. The reactions to this within our society — heck, even on this board — to those that hesitate is “YOU IDIOT”. Maybe not from you. But a lot of people.

and the evidence toward what can happen to someone by getting the shots is SO inconclusive, as it’s only 8mo old. How can anyone know?

there is no screening beforehand. “Hey man, you’ll get this thing called Grover’s disease if you take the shot…you still in??””

as a father to 3 small kids, YES, I’m still in. I care about them more than anyone. And I mean ANYONE.

But if I was a single man who could follow protocols and NOT have this asshole of a disease?

pretty simple. NO SHOTS

PS — no one wants to hear this shit. I get it. I wouldn’t (dont) either. The point of my life (story) is to not make general assumptions toward anyone. Are there people being belligerent about this, that maybe shouldn’t be? For sure there are. But are there also people that don’t know what they don’t know and should be concerned about all of this?

YES. X 1000. Yes there are.

like I said earlier. Try to understand walking in someone’s else’s shoes before we pass decisions on their choices.

and PPS — if people can’t get this, then they (we) are also part of the problem. You just are.

I get what you're saying but really we're not talking about a small segment of the population who have legitimate medical reasons for not getting the shot. It's statistically impossible. We're talking about people who are doing it for political reasons or just because they don't give a shit about anyone else or they think "I'm young and healthy what do I care". If someone is acting like that, hell yes I'm going to give them shit. No question. It's selfish and stupid. And if they're going around influencing others to do the same they're even more of a problem.

For those with legit medical issues, I have a relative who has substantial reason to avoid some of the vaccines but she got the J&J because it's the safest one available to her. So for many there are still options. But these people are typically NOT the ones shouting from the rooftops crap like "VACCINES SHED AND MAKE YOU STERILE" or whatever the disinfo is.

The tech itself is not just 8 mo old. Testing has been extensive and as vaccines go this is one of the most effective and widely distributed ever. We've already gone over this before so I don't expect you to change your mind, but those are the facts.

Other than your immediate GD reaction what long term effects are you fearing?

 

[Calicaps]

I get what you're saying but really we're not talking about a small segment of the population who have legitimate medical reasons for not getting the shot. It's statistically impossible. We're talking about people who are doing it for political reasons or just because they don't give a shit about anyone else or they think "I'm young and healthy what do I care". If someone is acting like that, hell yes I'm going to give them shit. No question. It's selfish and stupid. And if they're going around influencing others to do the same they're even more of a problem.

For those with legit medical issues, I have a relative who has substantial reason to avoid some of the vaccines but she got the J&J because it's the safest one available to her. So for many there are still options. But these people are typically NOT the ones shouting from the rooftops crap like "VACCINES SHED AND MAKE YOU STERILE" or whatever the disinfo is.

The tech itself is not just 8 mo old. Testing has been extensive and as vaccines go this is one of the most effective and widely distributed ever. We've already gone over this before so I don't expect you to change your mind, but those are the facts.

Other than your immediate GD reaction what long term effects are you fearing?

This! I have zero issue with people who have actual risk factors being hesitant about the vaccine. But that's a tiny share of the population. And in fact, those folks, people like Rids and my friend John and so on, should be doubly pissed at the bulk of the vax-deniers because they're the ones who are making it impossible for people with genuine health risks to forgo the shot safely.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This! I have zero issue with people who have actual risk factors being hesitant about the vaccine. But that's a tiny share of the population. And in fact, those folks, people like Rids and my friend John and so on, should be doubly pissed at the bulk of the vax-deniers because they're the ones who are making it impossible for people with genuine health risks to forgo the shot safely.

Yep this….

IMO it’s on the rest of us who CAN get vaccinated to do our part so those who can’t have a much smaller risk of exposure to start with.

And largely, we protect ourselves more in the process by donning that “bulletproof vest” (but not foolproof) Goon mentioned.



Rids, sucks to hear your individual reaction. Hope you get it under control.

 

[g00n]

This! I have zero issue with people who have actual risk factors being hesitant about the vaccine. But that's a tiny share of the population. And in fact, those folks, people like Rids and my friend John and so on, should be doubly pissed at the bulk of the vax-deniers because they're the ones who are making it impossible for people with genuine health risks to forgo the shot safely.

I think that's a key point that's being missed. Those who can't get the shot are in far greater danger if "it's a personal choice, we don't know what the vaccine actually does to you, etc" becomes the narrative and huge vax-eligible sections of the population forego the immunization.

I understand people do not want to feel like they're being called out or ostracized for having legit medical concerns, and in my experience they aren't being singled out as "bad people" for it, but the psychological relief of societal "permission" to go unvaccinated doesn't outweigh the risk of huge blocs of disease-spreading people around you.

It's very clear from the data we're seeing that unvaccinated people are making up the large majority of cases, and they're having a much worse time of it when they're sick. So people who can't vax should want those people to step up and get the shot.

Nobody is shaming people with legit medical problems that prevent vaccination. There are going to be very few people who know "I can't take that vaccine" due to X specific medical exception. Most people without allergic concerns and compromised immune systems are being encouraged to not only vax but get a 3rd dose now. So that pool of "can't" people is very, very small.

And the pool of people with definite reactions to the vaccine is similarly very small. Just because someone gets X malady 2 weeks after a shot doesn't mean the shot caused it. We still have to look at the overall expected rate of X in the population vs those getting the shot.

In my case it's very possible other stressors (including worry about the effect of the 2nd shot) could've triggered my shingles. There was a lot of f***ed up shit going on that weekend that was worse than the 12 or so hours I felt shitty from the shot. But I don't know for sure. Other reports in the media reach similar conclusions about causation, and those who received subsequent doses did not have shingles recur.

So I guess for me the challenge will be NOT stressing out about shingles if I need a booster, as that WORRY may be worse than the shot!

 

[g00n]

But hold on. The reactions to this within our society — heck, even on this board — to those that hesitate is “YOU IDIOT”. Maybe not from you. But a lot of people.

and the evidence toward what can happen to someone by getting the shots is SO inconclusive, as it’s only 8mo old. How can anyone know?

there is no screening beforehand. “Hey man, you’ll get this thing called Grover’s disease if you take the shot…you still in??””

as a father to 3 small kids, YES, I’m still in. I care about them more than anyone. And I mean ANYONE.

But if I was a single man who could follow protocols and NOT have this asshole of a disease?

pretty simple. NO SHOTS

PS — no one wants to hear this shit. I get it. I wouldn’t (dont) either. The point of my life (story) is to not make general assumptions toward anyone. Are there people being belligerent about this, that maybe shouldn’t be? For sure there are. But are there also people that don’t know what they don’t know and should be concerned about all of this?

YES. X 1000. Yes there are.

like I said earlier. Try to understand walking in someone’s else’s shoes before we pass decisions on their choices.

and PPS — if people can’t get this, then they (we) are also part of the problem. You just are.

Rids I'll even add on this one, I wouldn't blame you one bit if you decided to not get any boosters after what you've been through. I think you have a legitimate reason to question YOUR body's interaction with the vaccines, whether or not those concerns are verifiable or applicable to 99.9999% of the rest of the world. I get that totally.

But from what you've said you're also willing to follow protocols. The problem is there are a lot of people who are against ANY attempt to address this pandemic and even deny it exists. They would look at YOU in a mask and distancing and sanitizing hands etc. and consider you a "covid nutter" while they mouthbreathe Rona balls all over you. They'll prevent our kids from masking in schools, and fight the teachers who mask/vax. I'm not ok with that.

We can't ease up on this, man. Common sense is not in charge for half the country right now. If we can get to a place where 90% of the people are willing to take all available prevention measures seriously then you have less of an issue with avoiding any additional shots. That should be the goal, not separate areas for vax and unvax.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I understand your personal experience, which you've clearly laid out, and how that experience has informed your particular view regarding vaccines. You absolutely have my sympathy (if that's of any worth to you), and I certainly won't discount your lived experience.

However, obviously, you're not the only person with Covid-related experience (direct or indirect). For example, both my mother and her wife--two immunocompromised women in their 60s, who work together--got Covid from a coworker who refused to get vaccinated. The coworker didn't refuse the vaccine for any medical reason. She just didn't want the shot. She was asymptomatic, so she didn't know she had it, then she came into the office and gave my mother and her wife Covid. It was very ugly for both of them. Whenever one of them called, I was terrified it'd be bad news. (Also... did I mention that the three of them worked in a DOCTOR'S OFFICE? And, as administrative employees, my mother and her wife were then responsible for getting in touch with patients who had come into the office during that time to disclose that they had been exposed to Covid. Sad LOLs.)

From my perspective, that's some next-level selfish/reckless assholery on the coworker's part. So yeah, I ask that you don't discount how my personal experience has informed my own particular view regarding vaccines. Which is, if you don't have a valid reason not to do so (medical or otherwise), FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, GET VACCINATED.

I thank you, in advance, for your understanding of my position on the matter.

Again, as i stated earlier — non vaccinated need to have a different set of rules. Period end.

as well as I can understand your circumstances — and I do — we cannot force people to take a shot anymore than we force people to stop smoking (to use my earlier example).

we are all human. We are all different. I get it. I’m 51. Not some new to the work life clown (I could call a few members here — one of which wouldn’t see my post anyway) that thinks they know everything. I don’t.

My mindset is that too many people browbeat on both sides. They just do.

while I regret the time it will take and the lives impacted by that, it still needs to take some time for many of us.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'm sorry you're having to deal with that but it doesn't change the big picture. I'm not speaking just from my experience but the much, much bigger data.

FWIW it seems you might be able to get Grover's from COVID, too.

https://www.afamed.org/Document/Download/skin manifestations in covid-19_846a6ec.pdf

My theory? You and I may have already had COVID (I got very sick with COVID-like symptoms in Dec 2020) and the extra "boost" from the vaccine may have triggered our hyper-immune responses. In your case latent GD and in mine shingles (some people say they got GD after a shingles vaccine, fwiw, so there's some kind of connection there).

Shingles has been a pretty known response in my circle on NorCal. I think it all fits with the bodies inability to fight other issues as it gets flooded w the COVID vaccine.

I don’t at all disagree with your ideas on this.

all I am saying is that I can certainly see how all of this can make people pause (as it seems most people know someone that has had an adverse impact from the vaccine) towards it.

I still have expect them to get the vaccine.

that said, I’m very worried for my young children. Their systems have not had much to work with yet. And whole more robust than any ages, they are still not tested at all.

you have a young’in. So you have to understand the weight of a long term side effect from the vaccine, versus the long/short term impact of the disease.

all that said, I’ve read Ben Franklin’s feelings on this after losing his 4yr old to Distemper, while not being inoculated. Power stuff.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I get what you're saying but really we're not talking about a small segment of the population who have legitimate medical reasons for not getting the shot. It's statistically impossible. We're talking about people who are doing it for political reasons or just because they don't give a shit about anyone else or they think "I'm young and healthy what do I care". If someone is acting like that, hell yes I'm going to give them shit. No question. It's selfish and stupid. And if they're going around influencing others to do the same they're even more of a problem.

For those with legit medical issues, I have a relative who has substantial reason to avoid some of the vaccines but she got the J&J because it's the safest one available to her. So for many there are still options. But these people are typically NOT the ones shouting from the rooftops crap like "VACCINES SHED AND MAKE YOU STERILE" or whatever the disinfo is.

The tech itself is not just 8 mo old. Testing has been extensive and as vaccines go this is one of the most effective and widely distributed ever. We've already gone over this before so I don't expect you to change your mind, but those are the facts.

Other than your immediate GD reaction what long term effects are you fearing?

that’s the thing. Right there.

None for me. But what do I know?!?

It’a personal experience at my age, right? Good and bad? (Or all bad).

my younger brother had a heart attack and died at 46. He was somewhat overweight and maybe didn’t eat all that well (I didn’t live w him, so honestly cannot say). Was that something we prob should have seen and helped him work on? Painful as it is for all of us left, yeah. Probably should have. I will own that the rest of my life.

flip side? I got Lymphoma at 36. Had lead a very clean life, was in good shape, hasn’t abused anything. No one in my family had a history of this (while my family has battled excess weight etc akin to my brother). None.

so where did it come from? No one knows. Could it have been from something I ingested up to that age? Be it on my own or via a doctors shot? Don’t know.

but it wasn’t something that I got from my family. Not inherited, and I fully believe in genetics and how they impact kids. That wasn’t it. Even my oncologist stated “not from your family….we just don’t know”.

Hence my commentary on this vaccine

 

[Ridley Simon]

This! I have zero issue with people who have actual risk factors being hesitant about the vaccine. But that's a tiny share of the population. And in fact, those folks, people like Rids and my friend John and so on, should be doubly pissed at the bulk of the vax-deniers because they're the ones who are making it impossible for people with genuine health risks to forgo the shot safely.

Thing is. I didn’t know it would cause this. So while I’m not upset at anyone, I can still see why some people are squirrelly about it. Yes the odds favour it being ok…..but some people don’t want to play the odds.

all I’m saying is that I fully get why some don’t. Personally, I WANT them to, for my kids. It pains me that they don’t. But I get it.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Rids I'll even add on this one, I wouldn't blame you one bit if you decided to not get any boosters after what you've been through. I think you have a legitimate reason to question YOUR body's interaction with the vaccines, whether or not those concerns are verifiable or applicable to 99.9999% of the rest of the world. I get that totally.

But from what you've said you're also willing to follow protocols. The problem is there are a lot of people who are against ANY attempt to address this pandemic and even deny it exists. They would look at YOU in a mask and distancing and sanitizing hands etc. and consider you a "covid nutter" while they mouthbreathe Rona balls all over you. They'll prevent our kids from masking in schools, and fight the teachers who mask/vax. I'm not ok with that.

We can't ease up on this, man. Common sense is not in charge for half the country right now. If we can get to a place where 90% of the people are willing to take all available prevention measures seriously then you have less of an issue with avoiding any additional shots. That should be the goal, not separate areas for vax and unvax.

It’s akin to my analogy earlier. Smoking. Sure, it’s a somewhat flawed characterization, but it’s the closest I have (since we don’t walk around w lepers).

I hate smoking. Don’t want it around me. Don’t want it anywhere near where I go and live. It’s taken a LONG time for it to be understood that smokers need their own space (outside their homes), and shouldn’t mingle w the rest of us.

COVID is the same but to an extreme. If you want to be involved w normal society, then get the damned shot. If you are against the shot — ok cool, I of all people get it — but dont flaunt it and risk others.

And those that don’t want it? Then Carpe Diem to you — just abide by the more restrictive rules as such, and we are all good.

 

[g00n]

that’s the thing. Right there.

None for me. But what do I know?!?

It’a personal experience at my age, right? Good and bad? (Or all bad).

my younger brother had a heart attack and died at 46. He was somewhat overweight and maybe didn’t eat all that well (I didn’t live w him, so honestly cannot say). Was that something we prob should have seen and helped him work on? Painful as it is for all of us left, yeah. Probably should have. I will own that the rest of my life.

flip side? I got Lymphoma at 36. Had lead a very clean life, was in good shape, hasn’t abused anything. No one in my family had a history of this (while my family has battled excess weight etc akin to my brother). None.

so where did it come from? No one knows. Could it have been from something I ingested up to that age? Be it on my own or via a doctors shot? Don’t know.

but it wasn’t something that I got from my family. Not inherited, and I fully believe in genetics and how they impact kids. That wasn’t it. Even my oncologist stated “not from your family….we just don’t know”.

Hence my commentary on this vaccine

It sucks that you had to deal with all of that. I'm not sure why a doctor's shot would be considered a suspect for the lymphoma, though. Those claims have been discredited and health orgs all say vaccines help prevent cancers by reducing the chance of viral cell mutation.

 

[Calicaps]

Thing is. I didn’t know it would cause this. So while I’m not upset at anyone, I can still see why some people are squirrelly about it. Yes the odds favour it being ok…..but some people don’t want to play the odds.

all I’m saying is that I fully get why some don’t. Personally, I WANT them to, for my kids. It pains me that they don’t. But I get it.

But you knew you were immune compromised so while the exact risk was unknown, as in how it.might manifest, you probably knew there was one.

And again, it's important to differentiate between smokers and anti-vaxers. The former can be isolated and that's sufficient. They an only hurt themselves. But even if you sequester the latter group, indeed, especially if you do, by refusing the vaccine they increase the risk that we'll ultimately have a variant that is more virulent and potentially uncontrollable.

 

[Ridley Simon]

It sucks that you had to deal with all of that. I'm not sure why a doctor's shot would be considered a suspect for the lymphoma, though. Those claims have been discredited and health orgs all say vaccines help prevent cancers by reducing the chance of viral cell mutation.

I don’t know that it did. It could have just as easily been the McDonalds we ate back then, or the preservatives they added to allow food to age slowly, or some rouge vaccine I got 50yrs ago.

that’s my point. We don’t know.

and of course the health orgs, who are mostly funded (not all, let’s be clear) by the health industry, would say that.

But again. We don’t know. It happened. My doctors are clear it’s not genetics. I got a toxin. Where?

so people can be skeptical. That’s all I’m saying. Don’t blame them for being so.

 

[Ridley Simon]

But you knew you were immune compromised so while the exact risk was unknown, as in how it.might manifest, you probably knew there was one.

And again, it's important to differentiate between smokers and anti-vaxers. The former can be isolated and that's sufficient. They an only hurt themselves. But even if you sequester the latter group, indeed, especially if you do, by refusing the vaccine they increase the risk that we'll ultimately have a variant that is more virulent and potentially uncontrollable.

Of course I did.

and do you know the percentage of people on the “Get Vaxxed or you’re a Heathen!!” brigade that would actually hear me or even allow me to use that as a reason not to get it?

If you think that percentage is less than 50, I’ve got a lymphoma vaccine I’d love to sell you.

Would be a great deal to!!

you guys can’t have it both ways is all. You just can’t. And I’m pro vaccinations