Coronavirus and General O/T Thread #2

[MBH]

Listen, it sucks that businesses were shuttered and that people lost their jobs. That is absolutely a huge cost of us going through this. However, this has not been "getting better but its been hidden by the power brokers". It has clearly been getting worse and now we can maybe finally make some progress as we do have a vaccine that is here and ready to produce. If it goes back down now? It's because a whole lot of people globally worked their f***ing asses off to get us a vaccine for it. It's not some mythical shell game. This isn't a "ha ha Conservative people, we got your ass, lol!"

In Michigan, in July, Gov Whitmer described the COVID-19 situation as "deteriorating" and "worsening."
She based her opinions on rising case counts.

PCR testing and increased testing in general contributed to increased case counts used by control-freak politicians to do more damage to people's lives.

Now, politicians have learned to game the epidemic curves and take credit when for "defeating" the epidemic.

Wait for hospitalizations to peak. Announce lockdowns. And two months later, claim victory.

We're very close to being done with COVID.
If the weather pattern theories are right, we're going to get another wave in March.
For Wayne and Oakland County, it will be their third wave.
For the rest of Michigan, for the most part, it will be their second.
Between prior infections and vaccinations, it should be a lot smaller than the second wave.

And by May 1, COVID-19 should be in the rear view mirror. Maybe a tiny 4th wave in November.

 

[Ricelund]

The lockdowns didn't work. So not only do we have record COVID deaths (if you believe the numbers, notice how flu cases fell 95 percent lol) we also have record unemployment and record small business closures.

You've been coming to this thread for months with meme-level "evidence" that COVID isn't a big deal. Enough, man.

 

[Bench]

PCR testing

This is why it's difficult to continue to take you seriously as anything other than a willful misinformation broker.

You're making very large claims about PCR testing in the US that I don't think you understand. Like even a little. So you're going to need to show your work and demonstrate the false positive rate for PCR testing domestically and outline why this happens. What about this test is causing false positives - and at what percentage?

The actual facts are that antigen testing is far more likely to create false positives than an RT-PCR. The accuracy of antigen testing is significantly lower than PCR (well, it depends greatly how it's advertised, most seem to use PPA which is different than sensitivity). However antigen testing is rapid and cheap. In asymptomatic patients with a positive antigen test, they actually recommend doing a second PCR to confirm. Likewise, those with symptoms and a negative antigen test, should also seek a PCR test for confirmation.

The real irony of your argument is that, among actual scientists working in labs, the main criticism of PCR testing has been inflated claims of sensitivity. "Ah ha!', I bet you're thinking. I've just admitted PCR tests can have INFLATED claims about sensitivity! They aren't reliable!

Except the issue there is that lower sensitivity actually means more false negatives. The complete opposite of what you're claiming. Yes, that's right, among actual lab scientists the major worry with PCR is that it's failing to identify far more cases than are being reported.

Do you want to have honest discussions about understanding the science or PCRs? I'm happy to help. And if I can't answer it, I work and live with people than can. But you show no indication of wanting that.

You wield your misinformation like a child with a gun. You don't comprehend what you're holding, its power, or the magnitude of the harm you can do with your ignorance.

 

[Claypool]

You've been coming to this thread for months with meme-level "evidence" that COVID isn't a big deal. Enough, man.

COVID has a greater than 99 percent survival rate for people under 65.

 

[Bench]

COVID has a greater than 99 percent survival rate for people under 65.

If the survival rate was 99.5% in the US population under age 65 that would be still be 1.4 million people.

That would be like the entire city population of Dallas just disappearing in the course of two years.

Also worth noting that over 15% (and rising annually) of our population is age 65 and older. But f*** them, right?

 

[Claypool]

If the survival rate was 99.5% in the US population under age 65 that would be still be 1.4 million people.

That would be like the entire city population of Dallas just disappearing in the course of two years.

Also worth noting that over 15% (and rising annually) of our population is age 65 and older. But f*** them, right?

We could prevent millions of excess deaths every year if we banned alcohol, fast food, restricted automotive speeds, etc. but we don't.

If certain elected officials (some of whom recently got a promotion) didn't put COVID patients back into nursing homes the deaths would be dramatically reduced, but no one talks about that.

 

[jkutswings]

We're very close to being done with COVID.

If the weather pattern theories are right, we're going to get another wave in March...Maybe a tiny 4th wave in November.

One of these quotes is not like the other.

Even if a "4th wave in November" never materializes, and the predicted "3rd wave in March" is the last of it, that probably won't wrap up until May or June. And that's just from a medical standpoint, ignoring whatever continued financial / political / emotional fallout that might occur.

I wouldn't say that 10 months in with at least another 3-5 months remaining is very close to being done. Progress? Definitely. But not yet in the home stretch.

 

[jkutswings]

We could prevent millions of excess deaths every year if we banned alcohol, fast food, restricted automotive speeds, etc. but we don't.

If certain elected officials (some of whom recently got a promotion) didn't put COVID patients back into nursing homes the deaths would be dramatically reduced, but no one talks about that.

Which is it? Covid-19 is not a big deal, or people of authority made mistakes that led to increased deaths from Covid-19?

 

[Claypool]

Which is it? Covid-19 is not a big deal, or people of authority made mistakes that led to increased deaths from Covid-19?

It's not a big deal for people under 65. The data show this (assuming we can trust the data).

 

[TCNorthstars]

You've been coming to this thread for months with meme-level "evidence" that COVID isn't a big deal. Enough, man.

I'd go tell them to stop, but I am welded in my house.

 

[Konnan511]

The lockdowns didn't work. So not only do we have record COVID deaths (if you believe the numbers, notice how flu cases fell 95 percent lol) we also have record unemployment and record small business closures.

The lockdowns didn't work because a certain segment of Americans weren't following lockdowns.

 

[FabricDetails]

Glad to see this thread is bumpin' again, hehe.

 

[Bench]

We could prevent millions of excess deaths every year if we banned alcohol, fast food, restricted automotive speeds, etc. but we don't.

Excellent analogy. Except...

If I drink alcohol, I'm not going to spread my scarred liver to someone else who isn't willingly participating. If I eat fast food near you, you're not at risk of catching my calories and heart disease. If I speed... wait, we have strict motor laws and speed limits for the expressed purpose of protecting those around us.

So yeah, COVID restrictions are a bit like speed limits. Maybe you can handle going 90 mph down the highway, but for the good of everyone, we cap it lower. We restrict your individual rights so the whole can benefit and be protected. You cited the perfect example. Now you could argue the speed limits could be placed lower and we'd be even safer! That could be true. But we try to find a balance of risk. And that's what COVID measures are. It's attempting to walk that line.

If certain elected officials (some of whom recently got a promotion) didn't put COVID patients back into nursing homes the deaths would be dramatically reduced, but no one talks about that.

I try to keep up on stories like this from certain news outlets so that when they spread around like wildfire, I know if they hold any weight. And surprise, this one doesn't.

You are falling victim to lies. Flat out lies. They did not place current COVID patients back into nursing homes in Pennsylvania. Here's the exact guidance that was issued.

Fact Check: Did Biden's health pick put COVID-19 patients into nursing homes?

In an effort to alleviate the burden on primary care settings such as hospitals, the guidance states that nursing homes "must continue to accept new admissions and receive readmissions for current residents who have been discharged from the hospital who are stable," and that "This may include stable patients who have had the COVID-19 virus."

It's not placing active COVID patients into nursing homes, which is what you claimed. It was accepting admissions of people who were stable and had been previously treated. There's no evidence that links that decision to a rise in COVID deaths in nursing homes.

Often also brought up is that Dr. Levine pulled her own mother out of the nursing homes right before she issued this guidance. This can also be debunked. The guidelines above were put into place in March. Dr. Levine's mother decided to leave her assisted living community in May, well after after the guidelines were published. Not before. After. This is something we can easily fact check, yet I keep seeing the misinformation spread and spread that she pulled her mom out then put in new guidelines to let in COVID patients, as if she was insider trading with old people.

Of course, there are critics who keep beating the drum that Dr. Levine did put sick patients into nursing homes. And that she did pull her mom out before. And that she's responsible for so many deaths. Going to the source of these criticisms in Pennsylvania brings us to a State Senator that continues to believe the election was stolen and went on Newsmax frequently to push those conspiracy theories. So, you know, I'm so over this shit. This isn't a difference of opinion or where you get facts. It's straight up lies and garbage propaganda exclusively built to sow distrust in our institutions.

Dr. Levine made hard decisions without clear winning solutions. Her decisions were based on the best available information and guidance from health officials. And that's why someone like that gets promoted. Not due to gross incompetence. But measured responses and leadership.

 

[Bench]

Glad to see this thread is bumpin' again, hehe.

 

[FabricDetails]

I hope this song gets stuck in your head for the rest of the night...

 

[Red Stanley]

We could prevent millions of excess deaths every year if we banned alcohol, fast food, restricted automotive speeds, etc. but we don't.

If certain elected officials (some of whom recently got a promotion) didn't put COVID patients back into nursing homes the deaths would be dramatically reduced, but no one talks about that.

You're wasting your time unfortunately.

 

[MBH]

One of these quotes is not like the other.

Even if a "4th wave in November" never materializes, and the predicted "3rd wave in March" is the last of it, that probably won't wrap up until May or June. And that's just from a medical standpoint, ignoring whatever continued financial / political / emotional fallout that might occur.

I wouldn't say that 10 months in with at least another 3-5 months remaining is very close to being done. Progress? Definitely. But not yet in the home stretch.

For Michigan:
Smaller third wave March/April.
Then we are free.
We'll have another late spring, summer and early fall like last year. Even better than last year because less people will be susceptible.
And that means - restaurants/bars open. Games at Comerica Park. etc etc etc.

And then when the season virus returns in fall, we should have had 200 million vaccinations done by then.
A virus isn't going to get far with 200 million vaccinations.

 

[MBH]

The lockdowns didn't work because a certain segment of Americans weren't following lockdowns.

That's hogwash.
The lockdowns didn't work because they weren't real lockdowns.
The bullshit mitigation efforts were bullshit.

North Dakota.
South Dakota.
Different mitigation.
Same results.

Unless you're willing to be fascist about it, your lockdowns are pointless.

 

[Winger98]

so, bought an 8lb bag of oranges today, and it had this weird plastic thing shoved into the bag.

After failing ripping the bag open with it I looked at the side and apparently you peel oranges with this thing. Works pretty well. Also, apparently this shows many people might not know how to peel an orange.

 

[Bench]

That's hogwash.
The lockdowns didn't work because they weren't real lockdowns.
The bullshit mitigation efforts were bullshit.

North Dakota.
South Dakota.
Different mitigation.
Same results.

North Dakota: 10.5 population/square mile
South Dakota: 11.1
Michigan: 175

But I'm sure population density has nothing to do with the spread of an infectious disease. I get you're comparing those two with different mandates, but it's so much more important in areas of higher population than the Dakotas.

 

[FabricDetails]

so, bought an 8lb bag of oranges today, and it had this weird plastic thing shoved into the bag.

After failing ripping the bag open with it I looked at the side and apparently you peel oranges with this thing. Works pretty well. Also, apparently this shows many people might not know how to peel an orange.

Interesting. I use this new thing called fingernails. Should they fail, I use this other new thing called a knife and I cut a small incision and then use my hands. That's right. I'm high-roading over orange peeling.

 

[Winger98]

Interesting. I use this new thing called fingernails. Should they fail, I use this other new thing called a knife and I cut a small incision and then use my hands. That's right. I'm high-roading over orange peeling.

I've always used a knife and openly mocked my wife for using an orange peeler. Then I used one. I have apologized profusely.

 

[Claypool]

Excellent analogy. Except...

If I drink alcohol, I'm not going to spread my scarred liver to someone else who isn't willingly participating. If I eat fast food near you, you're not at risk of catching my calories and heart disease. If I speed... wait, we have strict motor laws and speed limits for the expressed purpose of protecting those around us.

So yeah, COVID restrictions are a bit like speed limits. Maybe you can handle going 90 mph down the highway, but for the good of everyone, we cap it lower. We restrict your individual rights so the whole can benefit and be protected. You cited the perfect example. Now you could argue the speed limits could be placed lower and we'd be even safer! That could be true. But we try to find a balance of risk. And that's what COVID measures are. It's attempting to walk that line.



I try to keep up on stories like this from certain news outlets so that when they spread around like wildfire, I know if they hold any weight. And surprise, this one doesn't.

You are falling victim to lies. Flat out lies. They did not place current COVID patients back into nursing homes in Pennsylvania. Here's the exact guidance that was issued.

Fact Check: Did Biden's health pick put COVID-19 patients into nursing homes?



It's not placing active COVID patients into nursing homes, which is what you claimed. It was accepting admissions of people who were stable and had been previously treated. There's no evidence that links that decision to a rise in COVID deaths in nursing homes.

Often also brought up is that Dr. Levine pulled her own mother out of the nursing homes right before she issued this guidance. This can also be debunked. The guidelines above were put into place in March. Dr. Levine's mother decided to leave her assisted living community in May, well after after the guidelines were published. Not before. After. This is something we can easily fact check, yet I keep seeing the misinformation spread and spread that she pulled her mom out then put in new guidelines to let in COVID patients, as if she was insider trading with old people.

Of course, there are critics who keep beating the drum that Dr. Levine did put sick patients into nursing homes. And that she did pull her mom out before. And that she's responsible for so many deaths. Going to the source of these criticisms in Pennsylvania brings us to a State Senator that continues to believe the election was stolen and went on Newsmax frequently to push those conspiracy theories. So, you know, I'm so over this shit. This isn't a difference of opinion or where you get facts. It's straight up lies and garbage propaganda exclusively built to sow distrust in our institutions.

Dr. Levine made hard decisions without clear winning solutions. Her decisions were based on the best available information and guidance from health officials. And that's why someone like that gets promoted. Not due to gross incompetence. But measured responses and leadership.

lol, using leftist media who won't condemn leftists isn't going to change anyone's mind. This line is laughable, though.

However, although Levine serves as the Pennsylvania secretary of health and was active in that position when the state's health department issued the guidance to nursing home facilities saying they can accept patients from hospitals and patients who formerly had COVID-19, that does not prove she placed coronavirus-positive patients in nursing homes or contributed to thousands of elderly deaths in the state.

If he was Republican you can bet Newsweek would be demanding he go to jail for the policies he created and implemented

The lockdowns didn't work because a certain segment of Americans weren't following lockdowns.

If your policy requires 100 percent of the popular to follow everything accordingly or it doesn't work, then it's a bad policy.

 

[RabidBadger]

You're wasting your time unfortunately.

Yeah, it's really a shame how his flimsy analogies of self destruction through vice and a communicable disease aren't getting through our thick skulls.

 

[RabidBadger]

If your policy requires 100 percent of the popular to follow everything accordingly or it doesn't work, then it's a bad policy.[/QUOTE

]

No, it serves to contrast how selfish jag offs will put themselves before the greater good of all.