OT: Coronavirus 4 - or is that thread 2.75?

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No Operation Warp Speed funding was accepted by Pfizer.

Is that true? This story from July indicates that Pfizer did receive a rather substantial sum from the government though.

U.S. Government Engages Pfizer to Produce Millions of Doses of COVID-19 Vaccine

EDIT: This NPR article says they received an almost $2B contract.
How Operation Warp Speed's Big Vaccine Contracts Could Stay Secret

 

[hblueridgegal]

Not for development of it - they will receive the money above for the distribution if it’s proven effective.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Not for development of it - for the distribution if it’s proven effective.

Ah, ok. A bit misleading to say they received no warp speed funding. They received a pretty big carrot (guaranteed $2B contract if it was effective) as part of developing it.

 

[MinJaBen]

Curious time to report this, two days after the election result clears out. Trump was kind of hinging on there being a corona vaccination found before the election.

Twitter meltdown incoming.

"Extra, extra! Trump campaing bonered by delayed announcement by the Viagra company!"

1980 Jimmy Carter weeps no tears.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Ah, ok. A bit misleading to say they received no warp speed funding. They received a pretty big carrot (guaranteed $2B contract if it was effective) as part of developing it.

Pfizer CEO: Company refused taxpayer money for COVID-19 vaccine development to 'liberate our scientists'

CEO Albert Bourla admitted that it will indeed "be painful" if the vaccine fails, but "at the end of the day it's only money" and the lack of taxpayer funds won't "break our company." It was more important for Bourla that his scientists were able to work without any strings attached, he said. "I wanted to liberate our scientists from any bureaucracy," he continued. "When you get money from someone, that always comes with strings. They want to see how we are growing to progress, what types of moves you are going to do. They want reports. I didn't want to have any of that."
Bourla said he gave Pfizer's team an "open checkbook" so they only have to worry about "scientific challenges." Plus, he added, he wanted to keep Pfizer out of politics, a tall task for a pharma company on any day, but especially during this pandemic.

The whole point wasn't too argue but to point out the above "only have to worry about scientific challenges." Hopefully, delivering a more trustworthy result.

 

[Lempo]

1980 Jimmy Carter weeps no tears.

... my junior high history class skipped the Ford, Carter bit on the post-WWII USA.

 

[MinJaBen]

... my junior high history class skipped the Ford, Carter bit in the post-WWII USA.

Apparently, because it was Carter, Reagan that was the whole 1980 election October surprise.

Edit: Of course, your US History knowledge far outstrips my Finman knowledge, so I should just shut up now.

 

[Novacane]

I wonder if we will have access to that one here, and if so, when? We (the common peons) probably won't have the option to be picky about which vaccine we get for a couple of years due to manufacturing and demand world-wide.

60 minutes had a segment about Warp Speed last night, and they focused on the distribution of the Pfizer vaccine.

With the focus on inoculating the medical care workers first across the US, it kinda sounded like they would run out of the Pfizer doses before being available to average Americans who don’t fall into any of the at risk categories

It sounded like a big problem could be acceptance of the vaccine by the medical workers, and then that would lead to a waste of an opportunity to vaccinate the rest of the population due to the shelf life of the vaccine. They cited some survey that said 60% of physicians would take it, and only 40% of nurses; personally, I’m not too worried about those numbers as they only surveyed 2000 people, but it’s still an annoying possibility

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Pfizer CEO: Company refused taxpayer money for COVID-19 vaccine development to 'liberate our scientists'



The whole point wasn't too argue but to point out the above "only have to worry about scientific challenges." Hopefully, delivering a more trustworthy result.

I understand. My point was saying "no warp speed funding" as you stated in your first post was misleading without the context of how they will receive warp speed money via distribution. I didn't follow what companies did or did not receive money for development or guaranteed contracts for distribution, etc.. so was surprised by your post and thus why I looked it up.

Not trying to argue, just trying to understand the full picture.

We can discuss/debate on how much motivation "money for development" vs. "guaranteed $2B for distribution if successful" affects how a company would act, but we would just be guessing.

Either way, it's good news that they are having positive results.

 

[hblueridgegal]

It sounded like a big problem could be acceptance of the vaccine by the medical workers, and then that would lead to a waste of an opportunity to vaccinate the rest of the population due to the shelf life of the vaccine. They cited some survey that said 60% of physicians would take it, and only 40% of nurses; personally, I’m not too worried about those numbers as they only surveyed 2000 people, but it’s still an annoying possibility

Many of my biotech and pharma friends and colleagues want to observe, at a minimum, a 6 month post-release window before even considering taking a Covid related vaccine. The quick release wigs them out due to the rigors of normal drug development that they are accustomed to dealing with in their work.

 

[Lempo]

Many of my biotech and pharma friends and colleagues want to observe, at a minimum, a 6 month post-release window before even considering taking a Covid related vaccine. The quick release wigs them out due to the rigors of normal drug development that they are accustomed to dealing with in their work.

They know there will be waiver agreements of no responsibility for any potential unforeseen side effects, and there is a possibility of something akin to swine flu vaccination Pandemrix induced narcolepsy happening in some random populations.

The first wave of Covid-19 vaccination is a massive instance of human testing.

 

[MinJaBen]

They know there will be waiver agreements of no responsibility for any potential unforeseen side effects, and there is a possibility of something akin to swine flu vaccination Pandemrix induced narcolepsy happening in some random populations.

The first wave of Covid-19 vaccination is a massive instance of human testing.

They are taking a cue from the software industry....massive beta testing to work out the bugs.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Yeah I miss going out to restaurants with family and friends but I think I can wait a few months to make sure the "secret" implanted microchip works and doesn't bug out and kill me.

 

[MinJaBen]

I'm getting one as soon as it is available to me. Even with the government's dubious pressure/funding, I'm satisfied with the safety measures in place at this point to believe that the risk is less than the disease. Of course, I will reserve my right to change my mind on that once I know which version will be first available to me and if any further information about the vaccines comes out in the intervening time.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I'm getting one as soon as it is available to me. Even with the government's dubious pressure/funding, I'm satisfied with the safety measures in place at this point to believe that the risk is less than the disease. Of course, I will reserve my right to change my mind on that once I know which version will be first available to me and if any further information about the vaccines comes out in the intervening time.

Just gotta hope you don't have any enemies with the feds - they hit that "kill" button and you won't even know what happened!

(Just to make abundantly clear... )

 

[Lempo]

Yeah I miss going out to restaurants with family and friends but I think I can wait a few months to make sure the "secret" implanted microchip works and doesn't bug out and kill me.

robert_de_niro_points_amusedly.gif

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

While I've personally known people to contract Covid-19, all but one have survived. The one that passed away was my favorite high school teacher, but I hadn't seen or spoken to him in over 20 years so I wasn't particularly close to him. Last night, my wife got a call from her best friend growing up saying that her (the friend) father passed away from Covid. He was older, so likely had some of the underlying conditions, but according to my wife's friend, was fine physically before contracting Covid-19 and going down hill in a hurry. I didn't know the guy that well but I had met him many times at gatherings, weddings, etc. over the years, but my wife knew him quite well.

Not that we need one, but it is a somber reminder as the country focuses on the election, that this virus is still affecting a lot of families.

 

[WreckingCrew]

While I've personally known people to contract Covid-19, all but one have survived. The one that passed away was my favorite high school teacher, but I hadn't seen or spoken to him in over 20 years so I wasn't particularly close to him. Last night, my wife got a call from her best friend growing up saying that her (the friend) father passed away from Covid. He was older, so likely had some of the underlying conditions, but according to my wife's friend, was fine physically before contracting Covid-19 and going down hill in a hurry. I didn't know the guy that well but I had met him many times at gatherings, weddings, etc. over the years, but my wife knew him quite well.

Not that we need one, but it is a somber reminder as the country focuses on the election, that this virus is still affecting a lot of families.

And unfortunately we're having a record spike, likely in no small part due to the election (standing in lines, less social distancing inside, chance of contact). The only person I know who's tested positive works in a daycare, but had no symptoms (same for her son who goes there). Illinois, Wisconsin, and Ohio seem to be having massive spikes right now. NC may be 7th in total cases, but at least we haven't had any real "spikes" in cases *knocks on wood* we've been about as "flatten the curve" as I think you can be

 

[Lempo]

A Finnish professor developing another Covid-19 vaccine goes deeper into the results: stresses that the 90 percent reduction is in the severe symptomed form of the disease. They didn't tests if and how it prevents actual (symptomless) infections.

Earlier animal tests suggest that a vaccination may be very effective in preventing a severe instance of Covid, but not very effective in preventing infections. So it may be the vaccinated people may still pass the infection onwards. Prizer's testing protocol didn't even try to research this. The results are not yet published for peer review.

He also says the preservation temperature of -34 Celsius of Pfizer vaccinations may be a factor that will raise the price of the vaccination (storage & distribution).

His own consortion's nose spray vaccine is in animal testing phase and the testing on human patients will start in the turn of the year.

 

[Lempo]

The chief of Finland's Vaccine Research Center says on other news that the open question in Pfizer's vaccine was its efficiency. He says that Pfizer vaccine profing this efficient makes it very likely that also the other vaccines in development will turn out to be effective, so it's good news all around.

About 11 vaccine blueprints are in intensive research currently, results expected in coming months.

The chief expects Pfizer to file their sales permit application to FDA and EMA in the third week of November.

 

[MinJaBen]

And unfortunately we're having a record spike, likely in no small part due to the election (standing in lines, less social distancing inside, chance of contact).

Still too close to the election for that to be in the spike at this point, unless you are referring to early voting. Unfortunately, the election and celebration/protesting spikes are yet to come.

 

[MinJaBen]

He also says the preservation temperature of -34 Celsius of Pfizer vaccinations may be a factor that will raise the price of the vaccination (storage & distribution).

That's actually pretty warm compared to the RNA vaccine storage requirements of -70C that I've seen. For those, the storage and transport requirements are going to be onerous. And likely will leave a very large swath of the "3rd/developing" world populations unvaccinated in the short term.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Yeah I miss going out to restaurants with family and friends but I think I can wait a few months to make sure the "secret" implanted microchip works and doesn't bug out and kill me.

When indoor dining was closed (early on in this) it really put a crimp in my lifestyle. I’m glad we actually have the choice to go sit down inside now.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Still too close to the election for that to be in the spike at this point, unless you are referring to early voting. Unfortunately, the election and celebration/protesting spikes are yet to come.

True. The timing is probably right from the in person rallies though. That said, when you loosen up the restrictions, go back to school, etc...the infections will naturally spike, which is what we are seeing.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Still too close to the election for that to be in the spike at this point, unless you are referring to early voting. Unfortunately, the election and celebration/protesting spikes are yet to come.

Yea, that's more what I meant was the week of early voting because there were large numbers of people out for that this election. Where I went everyone was doing pretty good about staying distant, wearing a mask, etc...really makes me wonder what these places with spikes are doing differently. Are they just not wearing masks/distancing? Is there something else going on?