Proposal: Conor Garland for Beauvillier and a 2021 2nd round pick

[YotesFan47]

Dobson + Bellows + 2022 1st?

I doubt Dobson would be on the table. I would do Bolduc + Beauvillier + Wahlstrom for Garland + Capobianco. Beauvillier is really only there to help give more cap, the actual desired assets would be Bolduc and Wahlstrom.

 

[CupHolders]

I doubt Dobson would be on the table. I would do Bolduc + Beauvillier + Wahlstrom for Garland + Capobianco. Beauvillier is really only there to help give more cap, the actual desired assets would be Bolduc and Wahlstrom.

Can I ask what draft pick value would you put on Wahlstrom? High 1st, mid 1st, 2nd etc.

 

[YotesFan47]

Can I ask what draft pick value would you put on Wahlstrom? High 1st, mid 1st, 2nd etc.

From someone who hasn't watched him very much since his draft year (Isles ended up with both players I coveted the most outside the top 3), I value him in that 15-30 range first. Unless an Isles fan has additional information, he seems to be developing nicely as a 2nd line scoring center with low 1c upside. Probably 2-3 years from reaching that potential? He could still bust into a scoring 3c or even just end up a winger. His defensive play had been questionable and I don't know if that has changed. He seemed to lack physicality, which may or may not still be a concern for his ability to dominate games like he should but he has the frame that with the proper gains, could be a force.

Beauvillier is kind of a Korpikoski early in his career for me, toolbox of a solid scoring winger but we need to see him put it together.

I know basically nothing about Bulduc but a poster mentioned him being a top D prospect for the Isles and I think that is the biggest opportunity for the Yotes. Our blue line the last few years has just been off. Some of that can be pinned on the coach but I also believe we have an awful mix on our back end.

I want to add as many D as possible in the next 2 years with potential to actually make it. Ideally I want big, physical D that can move the puck well. They don't even need to be high scoring D, just guys that move the puck well and are more than capable of shutting down other teams attempts at taking high scoring lanes. Some of that will come down to the teams scheme but players also need to be physically and mentally capable of what needs to be done to shut opposing players down. It's why Z. Michalek is one of my all time favorite Coyotes, he was sufficient at moving the puck and great defensively. He would elevate players ability to take chances because he was such a rock. Klesla was the same prior to the concussions, he was just more physical and less cerebral than Michalek.

 

[YP44]

i just don't see garland being dealt guy looks unreal

 

[Chardo]

I doubt Dobson would be on the table. I would do Bolduc + Beauvillier + Wahlstrom for Garland + Capobianco. Beauvillier is really only there to help give more cap, the actual desired assets would be Bolduc and Wahlstrom.

Wahlstrom ain't being traded.

 

[Chardo]

From someone who hasn't watched him very much since his draft year (Isles ended up with both players I coveted the most outside the top 3), I value him in that 15-30 range first. Unless an Isles fan has additional information, he seems to be developing nicely as a 2nd line scoring center with low 1c upside. Probably 2-3 years from reaching that potential? He could still bust into a scoring 3c or even just end up a winger. His defensive play had been questionable and I don't know if that has changed. He seemed to lack physicality, which may or may not still be a concern for his ability to dominate games like he should but he has the frame that with the proper gains, could be a force.

Beauvillier is kind of a Korpikoski early in his career for me, toolbox of a solid scoring winger but we need to see him put it together.

I know basically nothing about Bulduc but a poster mentioned him being a top D prospect for the Isles and I think that is the biggest opportunity for the Yotes. Our blue line the last few years has just been off. Some of that can be pinned on the coach but I also believe we have an awful mix on our back end.

I want to add as many D as possible in the next 2 years with potential to actually make it. Ideally I want big, physical D that can move the puck well. They don't even need to be high scoring D, just guys that move the puck well and are more than capable of shutting down other teams attempts at taking high scoring lanes. Some of that will come down to the teams scheme but players also need to be physically and mentally capable of what needs to be done to shut opposing players down. It's why Z. Michalek is one of my all time favorite Coyotes, he was sufficient at moving the puck and great defensively. He would elevate players ability to take chances because he was such a rock. Klesla was the same prior to the concussions, he was just more physical and less cerebral than Michalek.

You're way off. Wahlstrom is a wing, for starters. And he's already producing like a top liner at age 20. His value is off the charts, about as high as any 20 year old in the league.

 

[rt]

I doubt Dobson would be on the table. I would do Bolduc + Beauvillier + Wahlstrom for Garland + Capobianco. Beauvillier is really only there to help give more cap, the actual desired assets would be Bolduc and Wahlstrom.

Funny, some discussion of Bolduc and Garland in the Arthur Staple article in the Athletic yesterday:

Isles trade Samuel Bolduc and a 2021 first to the Coyotes for Conor Garland — Alden B.

Exec No. 1: “Garland’s their best player. If he goes on the market, they’ll do a lot better than this, even if Bolduc is becoming a top prospect.”

Who says no? NHL execs evaluate your Islanders trade proposals for Filip Forsberg, Taylor Hall and more

In this piece, Staple ran fan proposals past actual NHL executives, who gave their honest appraisals of the deals.

Interesting that a real, live NHL exec would say the Coyotes would do "..a lot better..." than Bolduc and a 1st for Garland.

 

[YotesFan47]

Wahlstrom ain't being traded.

That's fine, I assumed he had less value than Dobson and you guys seem to have a pretty good thing going down the middle. Wahlstrom to me has the value to be a great trade piece in a quantity for quality trade. I don't mean that to say Wahlstrom isn't a quality piece, just that in the current scenario, Garland has higher value. That could easily change in 3 years time.

 

[Chardo]

That's fine, I assumed he had less value than Dobson and you guys seem to have a pretty good thing going down the middle. Wahlstrom to me has the value to be a great trade piece in a quantity for quality trade. I don't mean that to say Wahlstrom isn't a quality piece, just that in the current scenario, Garland has higher value. That could easily change in 3 years time.

I like Garland, a lot. Wahlstrom straight up would be overpayment. He's that good.

 

[YotesFan47]

You're way off. Wahlstrom is a wing, for starters. And he's already producing like a top liner at age 20. His value is off the charts, about as high as any 20 year old in the league.

I'm aware that he has been playing wing, but he also played center. I think he could still be a center at the NHL which is why I have interest in him. I wouldn't say his value is off the charts either but again, I haven't given him much attention post draft. If you believe he is a top line winger in the NHL today, great, lets move on from him because based on the info I have on him today, I do not believe that to be the case.

 

[YotesFan47]

Funny, some discussion of Bolduc and Garland in the Arthur Staple article in the Athletic yesterday:


Who says no? NHL execs evaluate your Islanders trade proposals for Filip Forsberg, Taylor Hall and more

In this piece, Staple ran fan proposals past actual NHL executives, who gave their honest appraisals of the deals.

Interesting that a real, live NHL exec would say the Coyotes would do "..a lot better..." than Bolduc and a 1st for Garland.

Yea I saw that mentioned earlier in the threat. I wouldn't do it for only Bolduc and a 1st, I'd want more but at face value, it seems like an ok starting point. I'd also prefer players that are more ready than not so the 1st is less valuable to me. I'd actually prefer a 2nd and a higher end prospect.

 

[CupHolders]

From someone who hasn't watched him very much since his draft year (Isles ended up with both players I coveted the most outside the top 3), I value him in that 15-30 range first. Unless an Isles fan has additional information, he seems to be developing nicely as a 2nd line scoring center with low 1c upside. Probably 2-3 years from reaching that potential? He could still bust into a scoring 3c or even just end up a winger. His defensive play had been questionable and I don't know if that has changed. He seemed to lack physicality, which may or may not still be a concern for his ability to dominate games like he should but he has the frame that with the proper gains, could be a force.

Beauvillier is kind of a Korpikoski early in his career for me, toolbox of a solid scoring winger but we need to see him put it together.

I know basically nothing about Bulduc but a poster mentioned him being a top D prospect for the Isles and I think that is the biggest opportunity for the Yotes. Our blue line the last few years has just been off. Some of that can be pinned on the coach but I also believe we have an awful mix on our back end.

I want to add as many D as possible in the next 2 years with potential to actually make it. Ideally I want big, physical D that can move the puck well. They don't even need to be high scoring D, just guys that move the puck well and are more than capable of shutting down other teams attempts at taking high scoring lanes. Some of that will come down to the teams scheme but players also need to be physically and mentally capable of what needs to be done to shut opposing players down. It's why Z. Michalek is one of my all time favorite Coyotes, he was sufficient at moving the puck and great defensively. He would elevate players ability to take chances because he was such a rock. Klesla was the same prior to the concussions, he was just more physical and less cerebral than Michalek.

Wahlstrom has been sensational. It’s not just scoring, but he’s been playing a complete two-way game that has garnered praise from Trotz.

I think most Isles fans seeing what they are seeing now, would easily give a top three pick to acquire him. I certainly would. He’s easily a core player now.

I have not seen Connor Garland play this year, but considering how many Arizona and non-Arizona fans are raving about him. I can only assume that (like Wahlstrom) he is showing far more promise/potential than his career production to date.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

This might be the dumbest post i’ve ever read on here.

I’m just surprised you read the whole thing and took the time to respond, tbh.

And at 3am. Commendable.

 

[YotesFan47]

Wahlstrom has been sensational. It’s not just scoring, but he’s been playing a complete two-way game that has garnered praise from Trotz.

I think most Isles fans seeing what they are seeing now, would easily give a top three pick to acquire him. I certainly would. He’s easily a core player now.

I have not seen Connor Garland play this year, but considering how many Arizona and non-Arizona fans are raving about him. I can only assume that (like Wahlstrom) he is showing far more promise/potential than his career production to date.

Garland's biggest strength and weakness is his size. His size allows him to be more slippery and able to make some of the amazing plays he makes, but when put up against physically dominate players, he can lose his ability to score. The Isles have more threats than the Coyotes so I would imagine it wouldn't be an issue.

It's nice to hear his two-way game has improved. If he puts it all together I believe he will be an awesome player. Dobson is the prize in that draft. I had him ranked 4th OA and 2nd best D. You guys look like you're going to have a hell of a team for a lot of years.

 

[Mosby]

Pass on Bolduc and a 1st

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Both Beau & Garland have career highs of 39 points, which they hit last season in nearly the same number of games played. The verdict is still out on which player is more valuable as both have room to grow as players. Anyone making conclusive statements about which is the better player needs to take the homer glasses off and wait another 3 seasons

 

[Grimes]

Wahlstrom has been sensational. It’s not just scoring, but he’s been playing a complete two-way game that has garnered praise from Trotz.

I think most Isles fans seeing what they are seeing now, would easily give a top three pick to acquire him. I certainly would. He’s easily a core player now.

I have not seen Connor Garland play this year, but considering how many Arizona and non-Arizona fans are raving about him. I can only assume that (like Wahlstrom) he is showing far more promise/potential than his career production to date.

Good post. Exactly why it is hard for AZ fans to swallow something less than a Dobson type prospect. Seems like one of the trickiest aspects between the two teams is keeping NYI competitive while providing AZ with the assets it would take to move one of our top, cost controlled players.

I dont think Dobson would be too far off as a swap, get it if fans wouldn't want to do this but I think that should be the value AZ is looking for. I put Beauvillier about two tiers below Garland. I'm not crazy about Bolduc but he is a nice piece.

Bellows is interesting because he has some chemistry with Keller. How is he developing? Both Beauvillier and Bolduc are more interesting than a late 1st round pick.

Bolduc + Bellows + Beauvillier for Garland and Goligoski at 50%? This feels like a bunch of stuff for a top line forward though.

 

[YotesFan47]

Both Beau & Garland have career highs of 39 points, which they hit last season in nearly the same number of games played. The verdict is still out on which player is more valuable as both have room to grow as players. Anyone making conclusive statements about which is the better player needs to take the homer glasses off and wait another 3 seasons

Beauvillier has 4 NHL seasons behind him, was a 28th OA pick and is 23 years old. Garland has 2 previous NHL seasons, one of which he matched Beauvillier in points and was the 123rd OA pick. This season, Beauvillier is playing for a better Isles team and has amassed 8 points in 24 (0.33p/gp) games while averaging 16:26 TOI/GP while Garland has 25 points in 32 (0.78 p/gp) games and is averaging 17:46 TOI/GP. It's safe to assume Garland is having a much better season and it would stand to reason that Garland will continue to have a better career. The only 2 things Beauvillier has going for him are his size and being ~2 years younger.

Garland could regress following this season but he at least sits over 0.7p/gp though more than 50% of this season. That bodes well for him from a projection standpoint. If Beauvillier is in the package, it's as a way to add cap space/roster spots for the isles, not as a centerpiece for Garland.

 

[Grimes]

Both Beau & Garland have career highs of 39 points, which they hit last season in nearly the same number of games played. The verdict is still out on which player is more valuable as both have room to grow as players. Anyone making conclusive statements about which is the better player needs to take the homer glasses off and wait another 3 seasons

Why has Beauvillier's production dropped so significantly this season? Seems like historically the majority of his scoring came 5on5 so it doesn't seem like less PP time would be a huge factor. Is he playing with linemates who aren't complimentary? Just curious.

Garland's trajectory has been an upwards trend for three seasons. I don't know how to stress this enough but the change from last season to this season has been honestly eye popping. He oozes confidences in his play making now. I thought of him more as a TyJo type of winger, who just finds a way to score and hustles constantly. He is much more like Marchand-lite now. I can't see how this wont be the type of trade that people will look back at and can't believe AZ would move him. It's going to sting.

 

[sticker76]

I think Garland is a good player and is heading in the right direction. But I think AZ fans may have to get checked with what they are asking: Bolduc, Beauvillier, Bellows or Dobson, Bellows, and a 1st, or Bolduc, Beauvillier, Wahlstrom, etc.. You are pretty much asking for 3 recent first round picks. How many players actually get traded for that kind of return? There are some but Connor Garland is not on that level. If that is the case, what does a guy like Andrei Svechnikov get in a trade? What is Barzal worth then? What would a guy like Adam Fox get right now? I get all different positions and different contracts, but that is my point, it is rare that someone with Garland's history gets a top pick, 2 top prospects, or NHL players or combinations of that. Right now, if you look at his career totals, he is .55 PPG player or about 46 points. That is what he is right now based on his careers, yes this year he has bumped that up but his previous 2 seasons were not so lights out that he warrants a ransom. I get it may take an overpayment, but I think as always on HFBoards, fans are overvaluing their players. Garland can probably get a first and maybe a B prospect, but I just don't see him getting the value that some AZ fans have on him. By the way I have watched him play, not a Yotes fan or Isles fan. Just my 2 cents.

 

[CupHolders]

Beauvillier has 4 NHL seasons behind him, was a 28th OA pick and is 23 years old. Garland has 2 previous NHL seasons, one of which he matched Beauvillier in points and was the 123rd OA pick. This season, Beauvillier is playing for a better Isles team and has amassed 8 points in 24 (0.33p/gp) games while averaging 16:26 TOI/GP while Garland has 25 points in 32 (0.78 p/gp) games and is averaging 17:46 TOI/GP. It's safe to assume Garland is having a much better season and it would stand to reason that Garland will continue to have a better career. The only 2 things Beauvillier has going for him are his size and being ~2 years younger.

Garland could regress following this season but he at least sits over 0.7p/gp though more than 50% of this season. That bodes well for him from a projection standpoint. If Beauvillier is in the package, it's as a way to add cap space/roster spots for the isles, not as a centerpiece for Garland.

I wouldn't say that 30 games of a single season is proof of anything on who would have a better career. I can certainly respect one thinking that Garland or any player may have a better career if it's based on actual observation of both players or an extended sample size. But basing it on 30 games I just don't buy it.

Why has Beauvillier's production dropped so significantly this season? Seems like historically the majority of his scoring came 5on5 so it doesn't seem like less PP time would be a huge factor. Is he playing with linemates who aren't complimentary? Just curious.

Garland's trajectory has been an upwards trend for three seasons. I don't know how to stress this enough but the change from last season to this season has been honestly eye popping. He oozes confidences in his play making now. I thought of him more as a TyJo type of winger, who just finds a way to score and hustles constantly. He is much more like Marchand-lite now. I can't see how this wont be the type of trade that people will look back at and can't believe AZ would move him. It's going to sting.

Beauvillier was injured early in the year. But mostly his big negative is that he is streaky and inconsistent. Feels like a hot streak is incoming though. This is where he usually pots 6 in 5 games.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Beauvillier has 4 NHL seasons behind him, was a 28th OA pick and is 23 years old. Garland has 2 previous NHL seasons, one of which he matched Beauvillier in points and was the 123rd OA pick. This season, Beauvillier is playing for a better Isles team and has amassed 8 points in 24 (0.33p/gp) games while averaging 16:26 TOI/GP while Garland has 25 points in 32 (0.78 p/gp) games and is averaging 17:46 TOI/GP. It's safe to assume Garland is having a much better season and it would stand to reason that Garland will continue to have a better career. The only 2 things Beauvillier has going for him are his size and being ~2 years younger.

Garland could regress following this season but he at least sits over 0.7p/gp though more than 50% of this season. That bodes well for him from a projection standpoint. If Beauvillier is in the package, it's as a way to add cap space/roster spots for the isles, not as a centerpiece for Garland.

Players go through hot & cold streaks. Cherry picking stats from this season doesn't make Garland the better player. My point was that it is too early to say which player is better. In time, we will know that.

For I could say, in 22 playoff games in the bubble, Beauvillier potted 9G and 5A for 14 points. Far more impressive than what Garland has done in the regular season, feasting on bottom dwellers like the Ducks & Sharks.

Safe to say both respective fan bases can forget about this proposed deal and not lose any sleep over it at this point. Neither guy has broken 40 points in their career, this is just a classic case of "my guy is better than your guy". The bodies of work are too small and neither guy has been dominant or impactful enough over a prolonged period of time to say he is superior.

 

[seabass45]

All joking aside what would be the required payment for Arizona to take Ladd under the following options:

Deadline trade:

1) Ladd 2.5 years 8mil total 5.5 per yr cap

Offseason trades:

2) Ladd 2 years left 5mil total 5.5 per yr cap

3) Ladd 1 year left 1mil total 5.5 cap hit

Sorokin, Dobson and Wahlstrom are untouchables. Isles will move better roster players before using them to incentivize Ladd’s removal. But picks are free game.

EDIT: Lol, I guess the post I quoted already answered option 1. So just focus on the offseason options.

This isn't happening but my take on this is that each year of a 5 mil contract costs a first or a prospect with that value (and I don't think we have any prospects in the system worth a first right now). That precedent has been set with a couple of one year deals, including the one we made with Vegas. The alternative, with Ladd at two years, is that you trade a really good young player, like Dobson or Wahlstrom. You said they're untouchable, I agree, so it's not happening. There's just not a deal to be made for Ladd unless it's for another bad contract.

FWIW, I think a contract like Komarov's or Hickey's would take either a second or decent prospect (or maybe both) to offload.

 

[rt]

Since this thread isn’t really going anywhere, I’d like to repurpose it a bit and just find out more about the Islanders and their young players.

Would Islanders fans rank the following wingers for me in terms of which you value the highest: Wahlstrom, Beaullivier, and Bellows.

And then these D:
Dobson, Wilde, and Bolduc

 

[Sparksrus3]

A low blow that you couldn't even get right... it's actually Griffin Reinhart for Barzal and a 2nd round pick.

It’s actually Griff for picks 16 and 33.