Confidence in Babcock (Part II)

[GoonieFace]

I agree, things have seemed "off" for a while. One of the other changes is in the demeanor of Matthews and Marner especially that seems off. Early in the season they seemed to be havin' fun, especially Marner. I can't remember the last time I saw Marner smile...even after a goal. The players look drained at times. Is it contract talk? is it Babcock's style of coaching or "mentor-ship"? For a team that is so talented and where they are in the standings, they don't seem very confident or happy.

Marner - the contract situation could be weighing on him
Matthews - who really knows, he just looks like he doesn't give a crap sometimes

This is a very young team and lets face it, this generation of players have different attitudes. Very sensitive, want everything for nothing etc. Maybe Babcock trying to make them complete hockey players is turning these guys off. They just want to run and gun, which is great for about 30 games of the season, but when the checking gets tighter, more hard work is required.

My best guess is Nylander and Matthews especially do not seem to have that drive to compete on a consistent basis (Nylander mostly never), and these are just the types of players they are and this may never change.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Marner - the contract situation could be weighing on him
Matthews - who really knows, he just looks like he doesn't give a crap sometimes

This is a very young team and lets face it, this generation of players have different attitudes. Very sensitive, want everything for nothing etc. Maybe Babcock trying to make them complete hockey players is turning these guys off. They just want to run and gun, which is great for about 30 games of the season, but when the checking gets tighter, more hard work is required.

My best guess is Nylander and Matthews especially do not seem to have that drive to compete on a consistent basis (Nylander mostly never), and these are just the types of players they are and this may never change.

If they wanted to be be treated like kiddies, they should have signed kiddy type deals.

No excuses for any of them now.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Who are all those top 4 dmen?

Aside from Rielly....Gardiner Muzzin and Dermott

 

[Tiggaracing]

If they wanted to be be treated like kiddies, they should have signed kiddy type deals.

No excuses for any of them now.

I agree.
These 'kids' have handicapped our beloved team for the foreseeable future with their contracts.
Now go prove you're worth it. You'll be gods for the rest of your lives if you give everything you got while wearing our jersey.
But, come up short on effort, heart, compete, etc and no amount of money will comfort you once the pitch forks come out.

 

[RLF]

Marner - the contract situation could be weighing on him
Matthews - who really knows, he just looks like he doesn't give a crap sometimes

This is a very young team and lets face it, this generation of players have different attitudes. Very sensitive, want everything for nothing etc. Maybe Babcock trying to make them complete hockey players is turning these guys off. They just want to run and gun, which is great for about 30 games of the season, but when the checking gets tighter, more hard work is required.

My best guess is Nylander and Matthews especially do not seem to have that drive to compete on a consistent basis (Nylander mostly never), and these are just the types of players they are and this may never change.

I actually thought Matthews has tried to turn up the intensity the past 5-10 games, but looks like he is trying to do too much on his own. It is a young team, but this is also the time historically where you can win a cup while your stars are still on ELC's. They need to find a way to come together and have some fun again. Many of them look too intense/stressed, whatever. That and get rid of the stupid stretch pass when teams are taking it away (I know I have B****** about it for months now). Seriously though, how hard is it to have two different breakouts depending on how a team is defending you. It is not like coming back in support would be new to the players. What I don't know is - Does Babcock prepare them for this and they just don't/can't adapt? OR is it Babcock that insists on sticking with it no matter what?

 

[zeke]

The players sucked in this one but this team doesn't look right and hasn't for months

I'm not sure if it's a system problem, roster composition, disconnect between management and the coaching staff or even if there's one between the players and coaching staff but something doesn't look right

The team doesn't show up, can't start on time, the special teams are painful and things seem to be getting worse as the season progresses

There's some serious problems

Last 20gms aka since All-Star:

20 games
12 wins 5 losses 3 overtime losses
27 points
111 point pace
3.60 goals per game
2.95 goals against per game
.914 save percentage
51.0 corsi for percentage
52.0 scoring chances for percentage
23.3 power play percentage
78.4 penalty kill percentage

Games Missed:

Ennis 9
Kadri 8
Gardiner 7
Dermott 6
Kapanen 1
Johnsson 1

Only thing that looks subpar there is the penalty kill, looks like.


Tavares: 20gms, 8gls, 22pts (82gms, 33gls, 90pts)
Marner: 20gms, 4gls, 20pts (82gms, 16gls, 82pts)
Matthews: 20gms, 10gls, 18pts (82gms, 41gls, 74pts)

Johnsson: 19gms, 9gls, 15pts (82gms, 39gls, 65pts)
Hyman: 20gms, 8gls, 14pts (82gms, 33gls, 57pts)
Marleau: 20gms, 3gls, 13pts (82gms, 12gls, 53pts)

Kapanen: 19gms, 4gls, 12pts (82gms, 17gls, 52pts)
Nylander: 20gms, 4gls, 10pts (82gms, 16gls, 41pts)
Kadri: 12gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 14gls, 34pts)

Brown: 20gms, 2gls, 6pts (82gms, 8gls, 25pts)
Goat: 19gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 17pts)
Ennis: 10gms, 5gls, 6pts (82gms, 41gls, 49pts)

Moore: 7gms, 0gls, 4pts (82gms, 0gls, 47pts)
Petan: 2gms, 1gls, 1pts (82gms, 41gls, 41pts)


Rielly: 20gms, 5gls, 15pts (82gms, 21gls, 62pts)
Muzzin: 20gms, 2gls, 11pts (82gms, 8gls, 45pts)

Gardiner: 13gms, 0gls, 5pts (82gms, 0gls, 32pts)
Zaitsev: 20gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 8gls, 21pts)

Dermott: 14gms, 1gls, 3pts (82gms, 6gls, 18pts)
Hainsey: 20gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 16pts)

Marincin: 6gms, 0gls, 2pts (82gms, 0gls, 27pts)
Ozhiganov: 5gms, 0gls, 0pts
Holl: 2gms, 0gls, 0pts


Andersen: 17gs, .921
Sparks: 3gs, .891

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Marner - the contract situation could be weighing on him
Matthews - who really knows, he just looks like he doesn't give a crap sometimes

This is a very young team and lets face it, this generation of players have different attitudes. Very sensitive, want everything for nothing etc. Maybe Babcock trying to make them complete hockey players is turning these guys off. They just want to run and gun, which is great for about 30 games of the season, but when the checking gets tighter, more hard work is required.

My best guess is Nylander and Matthews especially do not seem to have that drive to compete on a consistent basis (Nylander mostly never), and these are just the types of players they are and this may never change.

This last statement really really scares me. If it is true then we are completely screwed and we will never win. I continue to hope this is incorrect. There are many examples of Cup winners who came into the league with limited or no playoff success like Bergeron. And turned into stars in the league.

 

[Dreakmur]

Aside from Rielly....Gardiner Muzzin and Dermott

So Rielly and .... injured, hurt, and injured....

 

[ShaneFalco]

Last 20gms aka since All-Star:

20 games
12 wins 5 losses 3 overtime losses
27 points
111 point pace
3.60 goals per game
2.95 goals against per game
.914 save percentage
51.0 corsi for percentage
52.0 scoring chances for percentage
23.3 power play percentage
78.4 penalty kill percentage

Games Missed:

Ennis 9
Kadri 8
Gardiner 7
Dermott 6
Kapanen 1
Johnsson 1

Only thing that looks subpar there is the penalty kill, looks like.


Tavares: 20gms, 8gls, 22pts (82gms, 33gls, 90pts)
Marner: 20gms, 4gls, 20pts (82gms, 16gls, 82pts)
Matthews: 20gms, 10gls, 18pts (82gms, 41gls, 74pts)

Johnsson: 19gms, 9gls, 15pts (82gms, 39gls, 65pts)
Hyman: 20gms, 8gls, 14pts (82gms, 33gls, 57pts)
Marleau: 20gms, 3gls, 13pts (82gms, 12gls, 53pts)

Kapanen: 19gms, 4gls, 12pts (82gms, 17gls, 52pts)
Nylander: 20gms, 4gls, 10pts (82gms, 16gls, 41pts)
Kadri: 12gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 14gls, 34pts)

Brown: 20gms, 2gls, 6pts (82gms, 8gls, 25pts)
Goat: 19gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 17pts)
Ennis: 10gms, 5gls, 6pts (82gms, 41gls, 49pts)

Moore: 7gms, 0gls, 4pts (82gms, 0gls, 47pts)
Petan: 2gms, 1gls, 1pts (82gms, 41gls, 41pts)


Rielly: 20gms, 5gls, 15pts (82gms, 21gls, 62pts)
Muzzin: 20gms, 2gls, 11pts (82gms, 8gls, 45pts)

Gardiner: 13gms, 0gls, 5pts (82gms, 0gls, 32pts)
Zaitsev: 20gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 8gls, 21pts)

Dermott: 14gms, 1gls, 3pts (82gms, 6gls, 18pts)
Hainsey: 20gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 16pts)

Marincin: 6gms, 0gls, 2pts (82gms, 0gls, 27pts)
Ozhiganov: 5gms, 0gls, 0pts
Holl: 2gms, 0gls, 0pts


Andersen: 17gs, .921
Sparks: 3gs, .891

I feel better now

 

[hector morrison]

Last 20gms aka since All-Star:

20 games
12 wins 5 losses 3 overtime losses
27 points
111 point pace
3.60 goals per game
2.95 goals against per game
.914 save percentage
51.0 corsi for percentage
52.0 scoring chances for percentage
23.3 power play percentage
78.4 penalty kill percentage

Games Missed:

Ennis 9
Kadri 8
Gardiner 7
Dermott 6
Kapanen 1
Johnsson 1

Only thing that looks subpar there is the penalty kill, looks like.


Tavares: 20gms, 8gls, 22pts (82gms, 33gls, 90pts)
Marner: 20gms, 4gls, 20pts (82gms, 16gls, 82pts)
Matthews: 20gms, 10gls, 18pts (82gms, 41gls, 74pts)

Johnsson: 19gms, 9gls, 15pts (82gms, 39gls, 65pts)
Hyman: 20gms, 8gls, 14pts (82gms, 33gls, 57pts)
Marleau: 20gms, 3gls, 13pts (82gms, 12gls, 53pts)

Kapanen: 19gms, 4gls, 12pts (82gms, 17gls, 52pts)
Nylander: 20gms, 4gls, 10pts (82gms, 16gls, 41pts)
Kadri: 12gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 14gls, 34pts)

Brown: 20gms, 2gls, 6pts (82gms, 8gls, 25pts)
Goat: 19gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 17pts)
Ennis: 10gms, 5gls, 6pts (82gms, 41gls, 49pts)

Moore: 7gms, 0gls, 4pts (82gms, 0gls, 47pts)
Petan: 2gms, 1gls, 1pts (82gms, 41gls, 41pts)


Rielly: 20gms, 5gls, 15pts (82gms, 21gls, 62pts)
Muzzin: 20gms, 2gls, 11pts (82gms, 8gls, 45pts)

Gardiner: 13gms, 0gls, 5pts (82gms, 0gls, 32pts)
Zaitsev: 20gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 8gls, 21pts)

Dermott: 14gms, 1gls, 3pts (82gms, 6gls, 18pts)
Hainsey: 20gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 16pts)

Marincin: 6gms, 0gls, 2pts (82gms, 0gls, 27pts)
Ozhiganov: 5gms, 0gls, 0pts
Holl: 2gms, 0gls, 0pts


Andersen: 17gs, .921
Sparks: 3gs, .891

Looks like it's time to ramp-it-up!!!

 

[zeke]

Last 20gms aka since All-Star:

20 games
12 wins 5 losses 3 overtime losses
27 points
111 point pace
3.60 goals per game
2.95 goals against per game
.914 save percentage
51.0 corsi for percentage
52.0 scoring chances for percentage
23.3 power play percentage
78.4 penalty kill percentage

Games Missed:

Ennis 9
Kadri 8
Gardiner 7
Dermott 6
Kapanen 1
Johnsson 1

Only thing that looks subpar there is the penalty kill, looks like.


Tavares: 20gms, 8gls, 22pts (82gms, 33gls, 90pts)
Marner: 20gms, 4gls, 20pts (82gms, 16gls, 82pts)
Matthews: 20gms, 10gls, 18pts (82gms, 41gls, 74pts)

Johnsson: 19gms, 9gls, 15pts (82gms, 39gls, 65pts)
Hyman: 20gms, 8gls, 14pts (82gms, 33gls, 57pts)
Marleau: 20gms, 3gls, 13pts (82gms, 12gls, 53pts)

Kapanen: 19gms, 4gls, 12pts (82gms, 17gls, 52pts)
Nylander: 20gms, 4gls, 10pts (82gms, 16gls, 41pts)
Kadri: 12gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 14gls, 34pts)

Brown: 20gms, 2gls, 6pts (82gms, 8gls, 25pts)
Goat: 19gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 17pts)
Ennis: 10gms, 5gls, 6pts (82gms, 41gls, 49pts)

Moore: 7gms, 0gls, 4pts (82gms, 0gls, 47pts)
Petan: 2gms, 1gls, 1pts (82gms, 41gls, 41pts)


Rielly: 20gms, 5gls, 15pts (82gms, 21gls, 62pts)
Muzzin: 20gms, 2gls, 11pts (82gms, 8gls, 45pts)

Gardiner: 13gms, 0gls, 5pts (82gms, 0gls, 32pts)
Zaitsev: 20gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 8gls, 21pts)

Dermott: 14gms, 1gls, 3pts (82gms, 6gls, 18pts)
Hainsey: 20gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 16pts)

Marincin: 6gms, 0gls, 2pts (82gms, 0gls, 27pts)
Ozhiganov: 5gms, 0gls, 0pts
Holl: 2gms, 0gls, 0pts


Andersen: 17gs, .921
Sparks: 3gs, .891

Strength of Schedule over these last 20gms:

(opponents ranked in order of pts%)

vs #1 (L, 2-6)
@ #3 (W, 6-2)
vs #6 (L, 2-3)
@ #7 (L, 1-6)
vs #8 (W, 3-2)
@ #13 (W, 6-3)
@ #14 (W, 4-3)
vs #14 (W, 6-3)
@ #15 (OTL, 2-3)
vs #18 (L, 0-2)
@ #20 (W, 5-2)
@ #22 (W, 3-2)
vs #22 (W, 6-2)
vs #24 (W, 5-2)
vs #24 (W, 5-3)
vs #26 (W, 6-1)
@ #27 (OTL, 2-3)
@ #30 (OTL, 2-3)
vs #31 (W, 5-4)

 

[member 300185]

If the Leafs get ousted in the first round again, will Dubas can Babcock?

The first year was a bonus. Last year was not. They were not ready to start the playoffs on time and the team was a powerhouse like this year. This year we have seen the emergence of so many other young players.

This year, the team is an absolute powerhouse.

No excuses.

Thoughts?

 

[ToneDog]

This team has lots of warts. Babs' job is not on the line.

 

[ShaneFalco]

No but he should be.

Not the right coach for this team IMO. They have the same issues as they did 2 years ago and have switched out players

 

[Byron Bitz]

Honestly it’s not that big of a deal if we lose in the first round again. Boston is one of the best teams in the league. The playoff format is a joke and it sucks for both Boston and Toronto because they both have to play one of the best teams in the league in the first round. The series could go either way. We have about a 55-60% chance of winning this series. No way Babcock gets fired anytime soon.

 

[RLF]

Strength of Schedule over these last 20gms:

(opponents ranked in order of pts%)

vs #1 (L, 2-6)
@ #3 (W, 6-2)
vs #6 (L, 2-3)
@ #7 (L, 1-6)
vs #8 (W, 3-2)
@ #13 (W, 6-3)
@ #14 (W, 4-3)
vs #14 (W, 6-3)
@ #15 (OTL, 2-3)
vs #18 (L, 0-2)
@ #20 (W, 5-2)
@ #22 (W, 3-2)
vs #22 (W, 6-2)
vs #24 (W, 5-2)
vs #24 (W, 5-3)
vs #26 (W, 6-1)
@ #27 (OTL, 2-3)
@ #30 (OTL, 2-3)
vs #31 (W, 5-4)

A little more context and the 2-3 record against top 10 teams doesn't look so great. Especially being out-scored 19-14.

 

[TimPeel]

Advanced bullshit stats aside I thought we looked like a more complete team before Nylander arrived. We looked more balanced and had a healthier amount of compete level. Something stinks with this team.

 

[hoglund]

If the Leafs get ousted in the first round again, will Dubas can Babcock?

The first year was a bonus. Last year was not. They were not ready to start the playoffs on time and the team was a powerhouse like this year. This year we have seen the emergence of so many other young players.

This year, the team is an absolute powerhouse.

No excuses.

Thoughts?

If you're playing a strong team in the first round 3 years in a row, can you really blame the coach?

 

[ShaneFalco]

If you're playing a strong team in the first round 3 years in a row, can you really blame the coach?

Seriously? That's such a cop-out
Boston isn't some powerhouse team. They're a very good team that gets in the Leaf's heads. Coaches are paid, like GM's, to get results.
And it would be a bit different if the team actually plays a solid series and loses, rather than spending lots of time in their own end hemmed in and being thoroughly out-classed at times (like the whole 3rd period of game 7)

 

[member 300185]

If you're playing a strong team in the first round 3 years in a row, can you really blame the coach?

Yes.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Last 20gms aka since All-Star:

20 games
12 wins 5 losses 3 overtime losses
27 points
111 point pace
3.60 goals per game
2.95 goals against per game
.914 save percentage
51.0 corsi for percentage
52.0 scoring chances for percentage
23.3 power play percentage
78.4 penalty kill percentage

Games Missed:

Ennis 9
Kadri 8
Gardiner 7
Dermott 6
Kapanen 1
Johnsson 1

Only thing that looks subpar there is the penalty kill, looks like.


Tavares: 20gms, 8gls, 22pts (82gms, 33gls, 90pts)
Marner: 20gms, 4gls, 20pts (82gms, 16gls, 82pts)
Matthews: 20gms, 10gls, 18pts (82gms, 41gls, 74pts)

Johnsson: 19gms, 9gls, 15pts (82gms, 39gls, 65pts)
Hyman: 20gms, 8gls, 14pts (82gms, 33gls, 57pts)
Marleau: 20gms, 3gls, 13pts (82gms, 12gls, 53pts)

Kapanen: 19gms, 4gls, 12pts (82gms, 17gls, 52pts)
Nylander: 20gms, 4gls, 10pts (82gms, 16gls, 41pts)
Kadri: 12gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 14gls, 34pts)

Brown: 20gms, 2gls, 6pts (82gms, 8gls, 25pts)
Goat: 19gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 17pts)
Ennis: 10gms, 5gls, 6pts (82gms, 41gls, 49pts)

Moore: 7gms, 0gls, 4pts (82gms, 0gls, 47pts)
Petan: 2gms, 1gls, 1pts (82gms, 41gls, 41pts)


Rielly: 20gms, 5gls, 15pts (82gms, 21gls, 62pts)
Muzzin: 20gms, 2gls, 11pts (82gms, 8gls, 45pts)

Gardiner: 13gms, 0gls, 5pts (82gms, 0gls, 32pts)
Zaitsev: 20gms, 2gls, 5pts (82gms, 8gls, 21pts)

Dermott: 14gms, 1gls, 3pts (82gms, 6gls, 18pts)
Hainsey: 20gms, 1gls, 4pts (82gms, 4gls, 16pts)

Marincin: 6gms, 0gls, 2pts (82gms, 0gls, 27pts)
Ozhiganov: 5gms, 0gls, 0pts
Holl: 2gms, 0gls, 0pts


Andersen: 17gs, .921
Sparks: 3gs, .891

Zeke, you love throwing out these stats, and remember, we are a very good team. But who are we beating of any consequence since Feb 1?

Wins: Pitt, Ott, Mon, Ana, Col, Veg, Mon, Buf, Edm, Buf, Cgy, Edm

How many of these would you consider teams that are strong this year? How many of these teams have a particularly strong defensive structure? Calgary and Vegas? Beating Mon, Edm, and Buff twice each will pad our stats.

Now who did we lose to?

Loss: Det, NYR, Ari, STL, Wash, NYI, Van, TBL

So how many of those should we have lost to? 4? And should we have lost to Det, NYR, Ari, Van?

Any way you spin it with stats, the bottom line is who are we playing and who are we beating. Do we beat teams that allow us to free wheel and give us space and have trouble with those that don’t? We haven’t looked right the past month and denying it with stats without context is akin to putting our heads in the sand.

 

[zeke]

Advanced bull**** stats aside I thought we looked like a more complete team before Nylander arrived. We looked more balanced and had a healthier amount of compete level. Something stinks with this team.

nothing to do with better balance pre-willy - everything to do with some unsustainable awesomeness at the top of the lineup:

Paces Pre-Willy:

Matthews: 88gls/135pts
Marner: 18gls/114pts
Tavares: 50gls/91pts

Rielly: 26gls/88pts

Andersen: .931sv% / Sparks .924sv%

 

[horner]

I actually thought Matthews has tried to turn up the intensity the past 5-10 games, but looks like he is trying to do too much on his own. It is a young team, but this is also the time historically where you can win a cup while your stars are still on ELC's. They need to find a way to come together and have some fun again. Many of them look too intense/stressed, whatever. That and get rid of the stupid stretch pass when teams are taking it away (I know I have B****** about it for months now). Seriously though, how hard is it to have two different breakouts depending on how a team is defending you. It is not like coming back in support would be new to the players. What I don't know is - Does Babcock prepare them for this and they just don't/can't adapt? OR is it Babcock that insists on sticking with it no matter what?

He plays in spirts.
There are alot of times his skating with no purpose
The he score a grt goal like the one he did against tbay.
Your wow where did that come from.
He is not very consistant.

 

[zeke]

A little more context and the 2-3 record against top 10 teams doesn't look so great. Especially being out-scored 19-14.

eh, 2-3 record against the top-8 is fine.

2gms were coin flips, 1gm was a blowout win, 2gms were blowout losses.

 

[nuck]

No but he should be.

Not the right coach for this team IMO. They have the same issues as they did 2 years ago and have switched out players

I really don't think Dubas has the stones to make such a move, but Shanny would. A failure in this playoff will almost certainly be blamed on the D though so Babs is likely teflon for another season at least. I think an early knockout next season would get him axed, regardless of the money owed. Coach goes before the GM who goes before the Prez. They will make some aggressive personnel moves if they don't get past Boston.