News Article: Comparing the Canucks to the Oilers

[The Optimist]

If we're not allowed to include Hughes (who, by most experts is considered to be one of the best, if not the best, player not currently playing in the NHL...and dare I say..the 'elite' word) then we should go by 4 years..

In 4 years ,I think its fair to say we have two homerun picks, one Calder runner up,and one probable Calder winner (a franchise player?)..and the books not completely closed on the other two...I'll take it.

and this all done without picking any higher than 5th (unlike the Oilers..how many top 5 picks have they had?)

But the Oilers also have two foundational pieces in Draisaitl and McDavid and that team is so horrible they just fired their General Manager. Bringing in two good players in four years isn't anything to brag about. In fact, you're indirectly supporting the idea that the Canucks and the Oilers are comparable. Which shouldn't be suprising since Benning learnt from Chiarelli.

 

[Ryp37]

The same pro scouting that targeted Josh Leivo is bottom 5 in the league? Really?

Yes, Josh Leivo makes up for years of pro scouting failures you weirdo

 

[y2kcanucks]

The same pro scouting that targeted Josh Leivo is bottom 5 in the league? Really?

Did you really just talk up Josh Leivo like he’s some kind of big win? Hahahahahaha

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Conplete Canuck googles and regency bias, the prospects the oilers had prospects easily at that level who didn’t turn out, just like those 4 you listed probably wont

No they did not. Go back and check there draft picks outside the first round.

 

[tantalum]

Did you really just talk up Josh Leivo like he’s some kind of big win? Hahahahahaha

Apparently. Guy is scoring at his career 25 point pace as a canuck so far and is essentially in the same situation he was in for Toronto though with a couple extra minutes of icetime. He's definitely a bottom 6 player. I'd argue closer to a 4th liner than 3rd. Certainly on a good team he is. So yes the big win for Benning is picking up a soon to be waived 4th liner.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I think the key takeaway is that this connection between VAN and EDM is being made at all. That is what is truly damning here. Even if you want to recognize VAN as superior in certain aspects, like drafting and goaltending, there is enough there to draw a parallel.

This comparison has been making the rounds of late in the media. Paterson has talked about it. Going from memory, it's been on SN650 as well. Now Biech drawing up a comparison article... It's all a little too close for comfort.

The hope is that the Canucks are, sometime in the future, the furthest thing from an association with the current Oilers. That's the hope, anyway.

Yes, let's hope. Be thankful we haven't experienced what the Oilers' fans have over the past decade plus. Prior to this season, they've made the playoffs once in the past 12 or since they went to the finals in 2005/06. Let that sink in. In that time, after the 2006 draft they've selected in the 1st round:

2007 - 6th, 15th, 21st
2008 - 22nd
2009 - 10th
2010 - 1st
2011 - 1st, 19th
2012 - 1st
2013 - 7th
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 1st (McJesus)
2016 - 4th
2017 - 22nd
2018 - 10th

The Canucks have never drafted 1st overall in the history of the franchise while the Oilers have done so 4 times in 12 years and are in year 4 of the McDavid era and will need to get their defense healthy and turn things around just to make the playoffs for the 2nd time with the best player on the planet, which I actually think they will. So while there are similarities as to where the two franchises are at today, be thankful we haven't experienced what the Oilers' fans have since 2005/06.

This should serve as a warning to Aquilini as should what's happening in Toronto where they assembled some great pieces in Matthews, Marner, Reilly, and Nylander and saddled themselves with Zaitsev and Marleau's contracts, haven't fixed their defense and face the prospect of Gardiner being a UFA, and went out and signed a superstar in Tavares before they resigned the 3 forwards coming out of their entry level deals. They now face cap jail, the Nylander contract exacerbates the situation, and their defense still needs a lot of work.

Aqulini needs to pay attention, he can't afford to have Benning crap his pants like he has with some aspects of the GM role up to now. By the time Pettersson needs to be resigned, Erickson will have 1 year left as will Beagle and Roussel, and Sutter and Gudbranson will both be done. They could potentially dodge a bullet despite themselves and the last thing they should be doing right now is overpaying for a Ferland or looking at a Karlsson in the summer.

 

[Askel]

Not going to deny that Benning has made some bad signings on players with deals over 2 years (Eriksson in particular),but most of those signings were done in the "rebuild and compete" phase...I've liked his signings this year of Roussel and Beagle

Have these deals hamstrung the Canucks like the Oilers?.

Sorry I didn't realize that phase had ended, when did that happen. After he signed Roussel and Beagle?

 

[RandV]

I liked a lot of what you said in your post, but I wanted to key onto this part. I think the front office learned from this selection, and really the McDavid era of hockey is focused on skill and speed. Under that criteria you select Nylander or Ehlers no question. Virtanen luckily still plays a fairly uptempo game, and he is still a work in progress himself. For a league continually treats Tom Wilson like he belongs in the same company as McDavid and Crosby, it's not surprising that Virtanen would have value in the draft. But these are not foundational pieces to build upon. Even if you hit like a truck, you can't win games 0-0.

I don't think it's so much that they specifically 'learned' as much as it is replacing Desjardins with Green and putting Brackett in charge of drafting. Other than that the only 'lessons' learned are pretty underwhelming, such as acquiring replacement players for pennies rather than giving up 2nd's or 3rds, and actually acquiring draft picks for a change... except these are only 6ths and 7ths.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Canucks have a couple of differences over the Oilers:
1. Much better drafting especially after the first round. Most independent sites rank the Canucks prospect pool top 5 even with the graduation of EP. The Oilers record of drafting after the first round is league worst.
2. A better owner. I’m no fan of Aquilini but he hasn’t shown that he is patient with incompetence like Katz by installing the old boys network and leaving them in place for over a decade.

I actually think there are better examples that can be used of rebuilds failing than the Oilers as I think they’re an extreme case with four overall first picks and a generational player. That’s a special level of incompetence not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Having said that, I do agree that we are at a critical stage of the rebuild where it could go either way. I think we do need a new GM with better trading and signing skills to take the team to the next level. A good base of young players and prospects is just the first step.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

But the Oilers also have two foundational pieces in Draisaitl and McDavid and that team is so horrible they just fired their General Manager. Bringing in two good players in four years isn't anything to brag about. In fact, you're indirectly supporting the idea that the Canucks and the Oilers are comparable. Which shouldn't be suprising since Benning learnt from Chiarelli.

The 2014 draft alone yielded 5 players that Benning drafted who in all likelihood will play at least 100 games in the NHL..The 2015 draft yielded a Calder runner up,and a promising bottom 6 player....The 2016 has produced nothing to date, the two best prospects have both been injured, delaying their timelines.....The 2017 draft has produced what looks like a Calder winner (barring injury),franchise player.

What situation Benning inherited and what Chia inherited are not remotely similar.

 

[Ryp37]

What will be most interesting to compare IMO is how Bennings handling of the blueline compares to Chiarelli's

D Chiarelli acquired through Trade -
Reinhart (1st and 2nd), Gryba (4th), Larsson (Hall), Wideman (6th), Petrovic (Wideman, 3rd)

Through UFA -
Andrej Sekera, Benning, Kris Russel, Jakub Jerabek, Mark Fraser, Jason Garrison, Ryan Stanton, Clendening off waivers

D moved -
Marincin + Ross (4th), Larsen (5th), Schultz (3rd), Jerabek (6th) Wideman (Petrovic, 3rd)

Draft -
1st round - Bouchard
3rd - Niemelainen, Carins, Berglund, Samorukov
4th - Jones
5th- Bear
6/7 - Marino, Kesselring, Paigin, Desharnais, Kemp,


D Benning acquired through trade
Sbisa, Pedan, Clendening, Gudbranson, Pouliot, Larsen

UFA
Bartkowski, Wiercioch, Del Zotto, Holm, Stecher, Sautner,

Draft-
1st - Juolevi, Hughes
2nd - Woo
3rd - Tryamkin, Brisebois
4th - Rathbone,
5th -Forsling, Neill, Candella, Gunnarsson, Utunen
6/7 - Stewart, Olson, Brassard

Yeah he'd have blown it in Edmonton too.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Both are organisations rife with pro-scouting failures, so they're pretty similar.

Difference between a good GM and a bad GM is a good GM can surround his core players with support to turn them into a contender. (Gillis).

Benning just hasn't proven to be capable of this, at all. He had the right idea with Leivo, but let's see what he does in free agency now. I don't think much has changed.

Both Chia and Gillis left their respective teams in a diminished state than what they initially acquired....Thats why they were sacked.

Two respected coaches could not fix the Oilers GMs incompetence (Todd McL and Hitchcock),just like two respected coaches couldn't fit Gillis' incompetence (AV and Tortorella).

 

[4Twenty]

Both Chia and Gillis left their respective teams in a diminished state than what they initially acquired....Thats why they were sacked.

Two respected coaches could not fix the Oilers GMs incompetence (Todd McL and Hitchcock),just like two respected coaches couldn't fit Gillis' incompetence (AV and Tortorella).

You're hilarious.

There really isn't a parallel to why Gillis was dismissed in Vancouver vs Chiarelli in Edmonton. Like not at all. Not surprising you decided to go there.

 

[PG Canuck]

The 2014 draft alone yielded 5 players that Benning drafted who in all likelihood will play at least 100 games in the NHL..The 2015 draft yielded a Calder runner up,and a promising bottom 6 player....The 2016 has produced nothing to date, the two best prospects have both been injured, delaying their timelines.....The 2017 draft has produced what looks like a Calder winner (barring injury),franchise player.

What situation Benning inherited and what Chia inherited are not remotely similar.

How many of those players from that amazing 2014 draft are on the Canucks right now? I guess Benning just likes helping out other teams get players?

 

[xtra]

No they did not. Go back and check there draft picks outside the first round.

So your telling me two year after the oilers drafted the players they had completely busted? I’m certain without even looking at it that they had prospects tracking as well if not better two years/three years after the draft.

Did they bust sure but thats a what happened to them 5 years+ after drafting which our guys haven’t gotten to yet

 

[Siludin]

Benning's pro-scouting is bottom 5 in the league, if not the worst. The Canucks taking that next step relies on the youth already here, and then Hughes/Demko to help take another step forward. Defense is in utter shambles with no real help after Hughes.

While Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat are young, we are now using up years of their prime and it's time to start building around them. No more wait and see/hope draft picks pan out.

Oilers biggest problem was that they didn't surround their top young players with any sort of real support cast. Chicago/Pittsburgh are good examples of being able to do this - the Hawks killed it this way and created a dynasty.

Beagle and Roussel! What terrible signings, playing important and impactful minutes every night...

Let me know when another Hossa is on the market. Can't think of any notably successful UFA signings that Chicago made.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How many of those players from that amazing 2014 draft are on the Canucks right now? I guess Benning just likes helping out other teams get players?

Two..but they're all assets, and returned assets...McCann turned into Gudbranson..Tryamkin,we still own his rights..Forsling,traded

 

[PG Canuck]

Two..but they're all assets, and returned assets...McCann turned into Gudbranson..Tryamkin,we still own his rights..Forsling,traded

What an incredible return we got for those players. Honestly shocked we aren’t on TB’s level of play with these type of deals happening.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

What an incredible return we got for those players. Honestly shocked we aren’t on TB’s level of play with these type of deals happening.

If Virtanen and Demko become consistent NHL players, it would have been a successful draft..jurys still out...If Tryamkin comes back and becomes a regular...It would be an amazing draft.

Gudbranson does have value in the league, whether you like him or not..

 

[TruGr1t]

The Canucks basically are the Oilers unless Quinn Hughes turns into Morgan Rielly. Then you might be a bit lucky and be closer to the Leafs, though we don't currently have a Marner kicking around behind Pettersson. The Benning-era Canucks certainly share the Chiarelli-era Oilers propensity for crappy pro scouting and bad contracts.

They've drafted a bit better, but that seems to be largely situational (i.e. draft spot) rather than strategic (i.e. I suspect we'd have taken Puljujarvi if he fell). Neither organization (Oilers or Canucks) has had much success outside of "blue chip" draft picks (something that differentiates the Leafs deeper prospect pool).

The one place we are certainly ahead of Edmonton is in terms of goaltending, but the blue line and forward situations look awfully similar. We could quite easily be talking about Benning in the same light as Chiarelli in a year or two if he keeps screwing up the defensive unit.

 

[Multigrain]

At least Benning realizes that the game is trending towards speed and skating. The reason that Oilers are where they are is because Chiarelli is still stuck in the stone ages of size and toughness. I don't think we have any worries that we become Edmonton 2.0

I get the trend but to sustain long term is it the best thing for the NHL? I miss the passing and setting up the plays. I get the run and gun mentality but it seems like so much is coming down to just a track meet. I think its great but once you hit the playoffs defence becomes so important. Not sure if I like the trend yet for the fan the scoring is higher and players are faster but wonder what the burn-out will be for some of these young guys.

 

[Hit the post]

Beagle and Roussel! What terrible signings, playing important and impactful minutes every night...
.

Yes to Roussel but meh to Beagle. Better to give him an incomplete at this point (only played some twenty something games for us so far)

 

[Peen]

The 2014 draft alone yielded 5 players that Benning drafted who in all likelihood will play at least 100 games in the NHL..The 2015 draft yielded a Calder runner up,and a promising bottom 6 player....The 2016 has produced nothing to date, the two best prospects have both been injured, delaying their timelines.....The 2017 draft has produced what looks like a Calder winner (barring injury),franchise player.

What situation Benning inherited and what Chia inherited are not remotely similar.

The 2014 draft is also a good example of ineptitude. For the sake of this point, let's agree we've been a good drafting team under Benning.

We've had awful asset management.

Traded McCann and more for Gudbranson.
Traded Forsling for Clendening.
Didn't play Tryamkin enough so completely squandered him.

So we went from having five potential players to just two.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The Canucks basically are the Oilers unless Quinn Hughes turns into Morgan Rielly. Then you might be a bit lucky and be closer to the Leafs, though we don't currently have a Marner kicking around behind Pettersson. The Benning-era Canucks certainly share the Chiarelli-era Oilers propensity for crappy pro scouting and bad contracts.

They've drafted a bit better, but that seems to be largely situational (i.e. draft spot) rather than strategic (i.e. I suspect we'd have taken Puljujarvi if he fell). Neither organization (Oilers or Canucks) has had much success outside of "blue chip" draft picks (something that differentiates the Leafs deeper prospect pool).

The one place we are certainly ahead of Edmonton is in terms of goaltending, but the blue line and forward situations look awfully similar. We could quite easily be talking about Benning in the same light as Chiarelli in a year or two if he keeps screwing up the defensive unit.

The Leafs have drafted Dermott and Leivo on the last 5 years..who else (of any impact) has made their team outside of their 1st round picks?

 

[I am toxic]

Canucks have a couple of differences over the Oilers:
1. Much better drafting especially after the first round. Most independent sites rank the Canucks prospect pool top 5 even with the graduation of EP. The Oilers record of drafting after the first round is league worst.
2. A better owner. I’m no fan of Aquilini but he hasn’t shown that he is patient with incompetence like Katz by installing the old boys network and leaving them in place for over a decade.

I actually think there are better examples that can be used of rebuilds failing than the Oilers as I think they’re an extreme case with four overall first picks and a generational player. That’s a special level of incompetence not likely to be repeated any time soon.

Having said that, I do agree that we are at a critical stage of the rebuild where it could go either way. I think we do need a new GM with better trading and signing skills to take the team to the next level. A good base of young players and prospects is just the first step.

You forgot to mention that we have better water.