Colton Orr

[leafstilldeath*]

4th line was BOSS against the Peg. Hope the good fortune continues. Orr was destroying pretty much anything that moves.

Leave the sheriff alone. Orr is needed on the roster and on the ice. Period!

 

[rimshot]

Yeah cause hes not even in the league anymore. I think staged fights are the one of the dumbest things in this league, and thats all Orr can do.

Nothing staged about the Kaleta beating. Kaleta refused to fight and Orr recognized Kaleta's choice but laid a physical lesson on the creep anyways...lesson delivered to every rat in the league that refusing to fight will not always save your butt.

 

[Milan90]

It's not just about fighting though. It's dressing guys who can do something on top of fighting. Orr has a career 24 points in 463 games. He is in a stretch of 0 goals in 78 games; 0 points in 62 games. No, he will not put up a lot of points off the 4th line, most don't. No, he will not put up a lot of points in limited minutes, most won't. But his only skill is that he is willing to hit people and drop the gloves.

Pretty much every single player on your list has significantly more points than Orr, or is producing at a pace that will pass him quite easily provided they get to play in the league as long as Orr.

For a guy who can't skate, can't handle the puck, and recently hasn't even been a good fighter, it is baffling how he maintains a roster spot over guys like Bodie who are willing to fight AND chip in the occasional goal. That is what people have a problem with. It isn't about dressing a fighter vs. not dressing someone to fight. That element of policing the game on the ice is a part of hockey tradition and until fighting is banned from the league, no team should rely on their top 6 players to do the fighting (as in Orr in the lineup and it is Lupul dropping the gloves).

I pretty much listed guys who are solely there to fight and intimidate.

 

[Snow Dog]

The Leafs need Orr on the bench for a deterrent.Let him play 4 or 5 minutes a game.Slot a player from another line in his spot for the rest of the game.You can have 2 half decent players on the fourth line plus the third from lines 1-3.
As long as there are head hunters in the league and the officials are unwilling to properly punish them, players like Orr will be nessessary.
Remember how tough Kadri was acting when Orr was on his line.

 

[ldnk]

I pretty much listed guys who are solely there to fight and intimidate.

Then you need a better list. 80% of the list has at minimum triple the number of points as Orr. And guys like Moen are PK specialists. Guys like Konopka while useless offensively are faceoff specialists. You listed a bunch of defensive defensemen like Jay Harrison who is not on the ice solely to fight. Just because a guy drops the gloves does not mean they are solely there to fight.

Guys like John Scott, Sheldon Brookbank, Tom Sestito sure. They are useless hockey players, but your list is not made up of those guys.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

The Leafs need Orr on the bench for a deterrent.Let him play 4 or 5 minutes a game.Slot a player from another line in his spot for the rest of the game.You can have 2 half decent players on the fourth line plus the third from lines 1-3.
As long as there are head hunters in the league and the officials are unwilling to properly punish them, players like Orr will be nessessary.
Remember how tough Kadri was acting when Orr was on his line.

I don't really care if Kadri acts tough with Orr on his line. I care if Kadri produces offensively with Orr on his line

4-5 minutes is 4-5 minutes too much for Orr

 

[HoweHullOrr]

No it does not

Problem is, NHL suspensions aren't severe enough. If I were head, Cooke would have been out of the game already

Severity of punishment has no effect on deterrence within the justice system and it has no effect on deterrence within sports.

Certainty of punishment and swiftness of punishment are great deterrents. Immediate punishment (eg. A security guard in the criminal justice system; maybe enforcers in hockey - though this is unproven).

People need to stop spreading the myth that severity of punishment works as a deterrent.

Hmm really? Let's say they gave 15 game suspension for the first game misconduct for fighting, 30 games for the 2nd, 60 games for the third and entire year (82 games) for the 4th. By the time the player got to the 30-game suspension, most GMs would be wondering why they would be paying for a player who couldn't even dress for games for over half of the season.

 

[diceman934]

Hmm really? Let's say they gave 15 game suspension for the first game misconduct for fighting, 30 games for the 2nd, 60 games for the third and entire year (82 games) for the 4th. By the time the player got to the 30-game suspension, most GMs would be wondering why they would be paying for a player who couldn't even dress for games for over half of the season.

Sure lets punish the deterrent to stupidity...High sticks and head hunting would go up substantially...

 

[PureTruculence]

Sure lets punish the deterrent to stupidity...High sticks and head hunting would go up substantially...

Exactly, people are worried and concerned about taking fighting out of the game when we see people blatantly targeting heads and crushing people from behind. That's the crap that needs to leave.

Fighting always has been and always will be part of the game. Therefor Colton stays.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I've long been a fan of Orr, he's had an up-and-down year, but lately has been playing well.

I saw him at the game in Winnipeg, and he was highly effective laying hits and skating at a good pace. When he got on the ice, the Jets players started making a lot of "too-quick" decisions and it resulted in a lot of turnovers.

I've also noticed that Carlyle is playing the 4th line with the Reilly - Gardiner tandem. With McClement covering their ***** and Bodie/Orr/Ashton pressuring the opposing side and causing turnovers, Carlyle has created an effective pairing.

A very weird pairing, albeit, because they're basically playing with 2 offensive Dmen, 1 defensive C and two wrecking ball forwards...

But it's working.

I would think Orr would be a part of the Leafs' plans next year, too, though it's hard to say how long he'll be effective at his game, considering he's been off-and-on this year.

But we don't have anyone else on the team that offers what he offers. (Though we can find it on the waiver wire most weeks...)

 

[indigobuffalo]

I'd love to see the Leafs acquire Ott at the deadline to play with Orr. Aside from the Ott/Orr oddity, Ott is so much more effective than a guy like Bodie/Ashton, and the McClement - Orr - Ott - Reilly - Gardiner Forward and Defender system would be really effective. Ott would offer some actual scoring touch, while offering the same hit-laying-prowess that Bodie/Ashton currently offer.

 

[ACC1224]

I'd love to see the Leafs acquire Ott at the deadline to play with Orr. Aside from the Ott/Orr oddity, Ott is so much more effective than a guy like Bodie/Ashton, and the McClement - Orr - Ott - Reilly - Gardiner Forward and Defender system would be really effective. Ott would offer some actual scoring touch, while offering the same hit-laying-prowess that Bodie/Ashton currently offer.

I like Ott too, he'd be a great pickup.

Didn't Gleason steal his wife though?

 

[ldnk]

I'd love to see the Leafs acquire Ott at the deadline to play with Orr. Aside from the Ott/Orr oddity, Ott is so much more effective than a guy like Bodie/Ashton, and the McClement - Orr - Ott - Reilly - Gardiner Forward and Defender system would be really effective. Ott would offer some actual scoring touch, while offering the same hit-laying-prowess that Bodie/Ashton currently offer.

Ott really isn't a 4th line player though. He's more of a 3rd liner. Ott playing 5 minutes a night is a waste of his talent and cap hit.

 

[ldnk]

Sure lets punish the deterrent to stupidity...High sticks and head hunting would go up substantially...

This keeps getting used as an argument with absolutely no basis in fact.

During the era of everyone punches everyone, Bobby Clarke has one of the most iconic slashes in hockey history in the 72' Summit Series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlnqthpTbM

1969 - Ted Breen and Wayne Maki swung sticks at each others heads and Green had a fractured skull and brain damage. Both got charged with assault but the charges were dropped.
1976 - Four Flyers got charged with assault for using their sticks as weapons trying to injure the Leafs in a playoff series. Three of them were found guilty.
1976 - Rick Jodzio cross-checked Marc Tardiff in the face and was found guilty of assault
1977 - Tiger Williams was charged with assault for slashing Dennis Owchar
1987 - Dave Brown with a vicious cross-check on Dennis Polonich
1988 - Dino Ciccarelli was charged with assault for hitting Luke Richardson with his stick
1988 - Dave Shaw slashed Mario Lemieux in the throat
1992 - Instigator penalty put in place
1994 - Tony Granato with a hard slash on Neil Wilkensson
2000 - Brad May slashed Steve Heinz in the face.
2000 - Marty McSorely charged with assault for hitting Donald Brashear with his stick
2007 - Chris Simon slashes Ryan Hollweg in the head (also stomped on Jarkko Rutuu's leg intentionally that same year)
2007 - Jesse Boulerice cross-checks Ryan Kessler in the face (Boulerice also swung his stick at a players head in the OHL)

There were more bad incidents in the early stages of the league around the 1900-1920 period I left out. But this notion that stick work will thrive with the absence of fighting majors is a joke.

And when you look at the guys post-instigator who actually committed the stick infractions it's goons. McSorely was a fighter. Simon was a fighter. Boulerice was a fighter. May was a fighter. Granato was a decent player but was a tough customer (who laughably won the Bill Masterson award 3 years after a 15 game suspension for hitting a guy with a two-handed slash)

The problem with the NHL is they allow borderline hockey-players to run around and do stupid stuff on the ice.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

4th line was BOSS against the Peg. Hope the good fortune continues. Orr was destroying pretty much anything that moves.

Leave the sheriff alone. Orr is needed on the roster and on the ice. Period!

Yeah...I cant think of a more expendable piece on this team. Can you?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Oh man, do we really need Orr and McLaren playing most games? They should both be 13th forwards. Get a guy who can fight AND play fast-paced hockey and you have a much better team. More depth that could line up and actually play hockey. McLaren and Orr should only dress when you expect a goonfest.

 

[ryno23]

Orr on the roster as the 13th forward to play when another team has a heavyweight that plays and might needed to be taken care of. I am thinking of Scott, Thornton guys who play semi regularly well almost in Scott case.

Otherwise no need for him on the ice as all it does is put more pressure/ice time on the other lines and you can see come the 3rd period on b2b or 3 in 4 the top 6 guys legs are shot.

I would rather see a 4th line who crashes, skates and chips in offensively and not one that gets stuck all the time in their own zone and loses momentum in a game.

McClement, Bodie, Ashton among others on the 4th line.

 

[TorontoToine]

teams don't dress there fighters or tell them not to fight orr or mclaren when they play the leafs because they are completely useless if you ignore them, and you get way more energy from ashton, jerry d, and bodie type players, who give it there all every shift.

 

[TorontoToine]

I get people saying he plays a sheriff role but i just can't stand when i see him coming down the wing with the puck, because its like he is a black hole for offense, and nothing offensive EVER materializes from him, like for god's sake he has 0 POINTS!!!!!

 

[Jer416]

I get people saying he plays a sheriff role but i just can't stand when i see him coming down the wing with the puck, because its like he is a black hole for offense, and nothing offensive EVER materializes from him, like for god's sake he has 0 POINTS!!!!!

Let's put Kessel on the 4th line if all you care about is points. Our 4th line is mainly used for grit and toughness (why, I don't know). Orr does a good job of finishing his hits, and I'm pretty sure he hits quite hard. There's been times when players see another oncoming player lining up a hit, and they'll just panic and misplay the puck. Orr's good enough for 4th line mins.

That being said...we don't need both McLaren and Orr.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

Orr is not effective at all. He is too slow to provide a good forcheck or cycle, this makes the 4th line not as useful as it could be.

 

[Quares27]

I get people saying he plays a sheriff role but i just can't stand when i see him coming down the wing with the puck, because its like he is a black hole for offense, and nothing offensive EVER materializes from him, like for god's sake he has 0 POINTS!!!!!

Ya because when you see Ashton and Mcclement going down the wing with the puck you just know a goal is coming up real soon

If you didnt watch the games and just read this board you'd think Ashton, Mcclement, Bodie have 15 pts by now with the way they're talked up... at the end of the day the majority of these guys will have very little impact on a game. I don't see what the problem is with having a tough guy on the 4th line that'll make guys on the other team think twice when on the same line you have a guy like Ashton who adds absolutely nothing in any way to the team.

 

[Quares27]

teams don't dress there fighters or tell them not to fight orr or mclaren when they play the leafs because they are completely useless if you ignore them, and you get way more energy from ashton, jerry d, and bodie type players, who give it there all every shift.

Also this part is funny because it literally could not be further from the truth. Teams go out of their way to dress their enforcers when we play them. Montreal does it with Parros, Ottawa does it with Kassian, Philly does it with Rosehill, Buffalo does it with Scott, New York does it with Boulton/Carkner, Carolina did it with Westgarth and Florida is doing it tonight with Barch. No matter how bad these players are playing they will always dress them against the Leafs.

 

[ryno23]

Also this part is funny because it literally could not be further from the truth. Teams go out of their way to dress their enforcers when we play them. Montreal does it with Parros, Ottawa does it with Kassian, Philly does it with Rosehill, Buffalo does it with Scott, New York does it with Boulton/Carkner, Carolina did it with Westgarth and Florida is doing it tonight with Barch. No matter how bad these players are playing they will always dress them against the Leafs.

Those are crappy teams and all Eastern Conference teams. The best teams in the league Chicago, Ana, SJ, Pens, Blues, Kings don't dress enforcers and play 4th lines that can play and contribute also allowing their better players to be fresher late in games and in b2b and 3 in 4.

 

[Milan90]

Then you need a better list. 80% of the list has at minimum triple the number of points as Orr. And guys like Moen are PK specialists. Guys like Konopka while useless offensively are faceoff specialists. You listed a bunch of defensive defensemen like Jay Harrison who is not on the ice solely to fight. Just because a guy drops the gloves does not mean they are solely there to fight.

Guys like John Scott, Sheldon Brookbank, Tom Sestito sure. They are useless hockey players, but your list is not made up of those guys.

Having triple amount the points that Colton Orr has would be equal to having the same amount of points as Colton Orr. And yeah, maybe those guys do have one aspect that they do decently well (Orr has that with checking by the way), but if they didn't fight, they wouldn't be on a team.

Hmm really? Let's say they gave 15 game suspension for the first game misconduct for fighting, 30 games for the 2nd, 60 games for the third and entire year (82 games) for the 4th. By the time the player got to the 30-game suspension, most GMs would be wondering why they would be paying for a player who couldn't even dress for games for over half of the season.

That's specific deterrence. We're talking general deterrence. Seeing player x get suspended has really no impact on player y. Also, for every reformed Matt Cooke, there's a Raffi Torres. There's no evidence that it works.