Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Rangers - The M&M Show

[Sideline]

I think that Toews and Kane sort of have a similar half-agreement between them akin to Crosby and Malkin. I doubt either one will try to cash in for around the max... even if they likely could. Malkin will probably also help keep their salaries down a little bit. As other recently signed superstar contracts league-wide are often used as a measuring stick for agents and GMs when signing similar tier players.

If I had to guess, both will sign 10 million dollar contracts. 12 seems a little too rich.

Malkin's contract took up about 14.75% of the cap when he signed it. That's the comparable number. It's pretty easy to get to 10 or 11 million per year from there on a 75m-80m cap.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Right... and I think they'll take the low end of that.

Like I said, I think their attitude is similar to Sid and Geno's. They want to be compensated fairly but also understand that signing max contracts (especially since they are sort of an unofficial duo) will hurt their team's chances.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think that Toews and Kane sort of have a similar half-agreement between them akin to Crosby and Malkin. I doubt either one will try to cash in for around the max... even if they likely could. Malkin will probably also help keep their salaries down a little bit. As other recently signed superstar contracts league-wide are often used as a measuring stick for agents and GMs when signing similar tier players.

If I had to guess, both will sign 10 million dollar contracts. 12 seems a little too rich.

None of us know for sure. But using Malkin or Crosby as a measuring stick is misguided.

We liklely see our first $10 million per year contract this off-season and those will be more the comparables.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Why is it misguided?

 

[Shady Machine]

Why is it misguided?

It's not. I'd be surprised to see them sign for much over Geno's. 10.5 per I think is likely the max.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Why is it misguided?

Because there will be lesser players whose contracts exceeds theirs by then. Likely a few. Already has happened with Crosby. The cap goes up and contracts go up. Only a rookie GM would use an old contract signed under a much lower cap as a negotiating ploy.

 

[Shady Machine]

Because there will be lesser players whose contracts exceeds theirs by then. Likely a few. Already has happened with Crosby. The cap goes up and contracts go up. Only a rookie GM would use an old contract signed under a much lower cap as a negotiating ploy.

Who has a higher hit than Sid other than Geno and Ovy? Not to mention, it's not particularly comparable since Sid signed before the new CBA.

 

[pistolpete11]

Malkin's contract took up about 14.75% of the cap when he signed it. That's the comparable number. It's pretty easy to get to 10 or 11 million per year from there on a 75m-80m cap.

In a year where the cap went down. They knew there would be a significant increase from this year to next year when his new contract will kick in.

I don't know if they have any idea how much the cap will go up from '14-15 to '15-16 and Kane and Toews will sign their new deals this summer.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Who has a higher hit than Sid other than Geno and Ovy? Not to mention, it's not particularly comparable since Sid signed before the new CBA.

I am at the PITT game so can not look it up but know several have signed comparable $8 million or so contracts to Sid's who are no where near the players Sid is.

Subban likely signs for $10 million per in a few months. Would you trade Crosby or Malkin for Subban?

Which is nothing new. Using old cap signed contracts as comparables for negotiations when the cap is higher is a fool's game. Which is my point.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think Toews and Kane will sign identical contracts to Malkin.

It will be interesting to see how the Hawks manage their depth afterwards.

 

[Shady Machine]

I am at the PITT game so can not look it up but know several have signed comparable $8 million or so contracts to Sid's who are no where near the players Sid is.

Subban likely signs for $10 million per in a few months. Would you trade Crosby or Malkin for Subban?

Which is nothing new. Using old cap signed contracts as comparables for negotiations when the cap is higher is a fool's game. Which is my point.

I don't think positions are particularly comparable in terms of contracts. I guess my point is I really don't see Kane or Toews beating Geno's contract by much, if at all. Sid, Geno, and even Ovy set the bar for elite forwards. Sure, Kessel can command 8 mil, but I don't think you are going to see many guys in the near future breaking 10, 11mil.

 

[mpp9]

Toews and Kane will give their team discounts. It's guys who want free agency money who will command 10+.

 

[billybudd]

I kind of feel like Neal sort of put himself into these positions with the officiating because of his lack of emotional control. I've resigned myself to the fact that he'll remain a target of the refs until he pulls a Cooke and gets his **** together for at least a full season.

True enough.

I'm not exactly surprised that James Neal doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from referees.

What I can't grok is why players like Brown and Orpik do. I mean, Brown's no less a dirtbag and much more of a diver, so you'd think he'd have a target on his back.

And Orpik is flat out abusive to officials, but they just take it. Never give him a phantom call for anything. I think he's gotten 1 misconduct for being overly disrespectful in his career. Should be more like 30.

 

[Sivek]

True enough.

What I can't grok is why players like Brown and Orpik do. I mean, Brown's no less a dirtbag and much more of a diver, so you'd think he'd have a target on his back.

Couldn't agree with this more. I don't know how Brown doesn't get more flak nationally and from officials. I hate watching him play. Orpik could cross-check a guy 4 times and then get rung up for the 5th one and then let the refs know about it. I don't think I've ever seen him suffer a penalty in silence.

Shane Doan is one of those guys that gets media/player/fan praise for how he plays and he's dirty more than often than not but usually gets away with it. I don't know, some guys just get a lot of leeway for dickish play and then there's guys like Neal who for the most part never get the benefit of the doubt. Then again, guys thought of as skill players get way, way less leeway when it comes to diving even though they're the ones with legit beef when it comes to interference-related penalties.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

In a year where the cap went down. They knew there would be a significant increase from this year to next year when his new contract will kick in.

I don't know if they have any idea how much the cap will go up from '14-15 to '15-16 and Kane and Toews will sign their new deals this summer.

Dreger has come out and said the cap will go to 71 mil+ in 14-15, and then should have another big bump the next year when that big TV deal kicks in. Conservative projections show the cap hitting over 100 mil by 2021-2022. Agents will probably figure that in.

Our timing of signing Crosby and Malkin was very lucky for us. They will be pretty good bargains in their primes. Letang's deal will become pretty friendly quickly as well, assuming he maintains a reasonable level of performance. D men usually reach their primes a little later, around 30 years old.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I missed Neal's dive. If anyone finds a video or gif of it, a link would be much appreciated. If not, no big deal.



Maybe I should be asking for a compilation of his dives

Doesn't he know this is the WINTER olympics?

 

[alcanalz]

I missed Neal's dive. If anyone finds a video or gif of it, a link would be much appreciated. If not, no big deal.



Maybe I should be asking for a compilation of his dives

Doesn't he know this is the WINTER olympics?

Guy hooked him, he just went down too easy. Wasn't that bad, but it was embellishment.

 

[pistolpete11]

Dreger has come out and said the cap will go to 71 mil+ in 14-15, and then should have another big bump the next year when that big TV deal kicks in. Conservative projections show the cap hitting over 100 mil by 2021-2022. Agents will probably figure that in.

Our timing of signing Crosby and Malkin was very lucky for us. They will be pretty good bargains in their primes. Letang's deal will become pretty friendly quickly as well, assuming he maintains a reasonable level of performance. D men usually reach their primes a little later, around 30 years old.

If that's true, I'm really glad we already locked up Crosby and Malkin, but if the cap is at $100M, there will be another lockout.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

If that's true, I'm really glad we already locked up Crosby and Malkin, but if the cap is at $100M, there will be another lockout.

The cap is tied to HRR and it's a 50/50 split, so when it reaches 100m, I'd love to see Bettman spin doctor his way through another lockout.

 

[Gallatin]

If that's true, I'm really glad we already locked up Crosby and Malkin, but if the cap is at $100M, there will be another lockout.

There will be another lockout regardless.

It's the best negotiating tool the owners have, and even with the new CBA they are still paying out a higher percentage of revenues than the other 3 Big Leagues in North America.

With much of the revenue growth coming from the top 5 or 10 hockey markets, the bottom 10 will likely be fighting for the very viability of their businesses come the next round of negotiating.

The owners will want to keep the existing system as close to intact as possible at the cost of the players. The players will be looking for significant change to the system.

It's gonna be another tough round of negotiating.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

There should be plenty of money for all the team owners with that new TV deal, which is really massive.

But regardless of what happens in a few years, we signed our big stars to long term deals right before the cap went up quite a bit. You couldn't have timed it better, and we'll have about 20 mil in space in 2015-2016, with only a few key spots to fill:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER

FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
/ Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.200m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Simon Despres ($2.000m) / Paul Martin ($5.500m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Eric Hartzell ($0.550m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $80,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,658,333; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (16-man roster): $19,441,667

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Guy hooked him, he just went down too easy. Wasn't that bad, but it was embellishment.

Thanks. Sounds like they might not have made the call if they new it would lead to a suspension.

 

[stardog]

And it will carryover into the playoffs like it has the last two seasons and totally change the dynamics of the game. Then, predictably, people will say "you can't blame the refs", "let the players play decide the game", and every other cliche that favors the 1995 New Jersey Devils. How the games are reffed will have more of a factor on the playoff games than any trade we could make at the deadline and I have no qualms about pointing out how horrible that is for the game.

Man, I agree. I hate hate hate the whole notion of "let the players play", or "The refs don't want to become the story". By NOT making easy calls and by NOT doing their job they ARE the story. It reminded me of the super bowl last year, which was one of the worst officiating jobs I have ever seen. From the play where the Ravens punter took a safety and the Ravens players were literally tackling the Niners players, to the obvious pass interference on Crabtree on the 4th and goal it was bad all around. And the announcers were saying those exact clichés. "Good non call". "Let the players decide the outcome". What kind of crap is that? By NOT doing the job that they are supposed to do, it was the officials who decided the outcome (of at least that game). Had they done their job, Ray Lewis would not have won his second superbowl and the entire game would have been decided. I just don't get that mentality.

 

[DegenX]

Neal isn't going to be suspended.

I was wondering where you guys got that from, and the only thing I could find was a tweet from Yohe saying he was eligible for a suspension. So, I guess it's only right that he would follow up on it ...

An NHL official has told me that James Neal won't be suspended despite a third embellishment penalty this season. @JoshYohe_Trib

Is it just me, or does Yohe sound disappoint?

 

[MeticulouslyDishevel]

Neal isn't going to be suspended.

I was wondering where you guys got that from, and the only thing I could find was a tweet from Yohe saying he was eligible for a suspension. So, I guess it's only right that he would follow up on it ...




Is it just me, or does Yohe sound disappoint?

I think he's disappointed that he came up with the idea and that it didn't come to pass.