Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus - Pens vs. Flyers... embarrassing

[drpepper]

Wes Crosby ‏@OtherNHLCrosby · 5m5 minutes ago
Goc: "Hopefully I'm back in there tonight and I can show the coach he should put me in every night." #Pens (Source)

Because Goc, who's put up a heroic effort centering Sill and Adams is clearly the problem.

 

[Speed Kills]

The bolded... if someone would have done what you're advocating then it would have evened up and negated the power play (which at the time we didn't know would be 0 for the century). You can't give the refs opportunities to take away a man advantage.

For your whole general jist, you just don't seem to get that the Pens weren't out toughed last night, or any of the last couple games. Adding toughness to any of those game either makes the game a Slap Shot tribute or put the Pens in a bigger hole.

You can't let players take those cheap shots at your star players. Philly knows nothing will be done and and continues with questionable hits. There were a few penguins last night that were scared to hit or even get hit last night. That was caused by the physical style of play philly brings every time they play us. I know Hornqvist, Depres add more toughness, but I still feel we need an good enforcer.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You can't let players take those cheap shots at your star players. Philly knows nothing will be done and and continues with questionable hits. There were a few penguins last night that were scared to hit or even get hit last night. That was caused by the physical style of play philly brings every time they play us. I know Hornqvist, Depres add more toughness, but I still feel we need an good enforcer.

Who?

 

[Riptide]

This ****ing game man. What a **** show.

I'll say one thing though, you let a piece of **** like Rinaldo run Letang, you gotta take off Giroux's or Voracek's head off in retaliation. Don't care if somebody gets suspended, just ****ing do it.

That's what my heart says I want to see... but logic questions what will happen to Crosby or Malkin if that does happen?

 

[drpepper]

Tocchet's ideas are fine. He can't make them not make stupid passes through the box. He doesn't have a better net front presence than Kunitz available to him presently. The way he's structuring this, what he's preaching and who he's using, it -should- be dangerous.

It's not dangerous. And most of it's early effectiveness was unsustainably high shooting percentage.

If a powerplay with Malkin and Crosby on it hinges on Hornqvist then it's a ****ing stupid powerplay.

They made the same stupid passes through the box last year and were more effective.

Tocchet came in and said he'd make the powerplay better. It is worse than the powerplay that the players ran last year.

 

[Winger for Hire]

You can't let players take those cheap shots at your star players. Philly knows nothing will be done and and continues with questionable hits. There were a few penguins last night that were scared to hit or even get hit last night. That was caused by the physical style of play philly brings every time they play us. I know Hornqvist, Depres add more toughness, but I still feel we need an good enforcer.

For the 1000th time.... god yes! An enforcer would have swung last night's game in a completely different direction, it would have been a full on three ring circus, instead of just a traveling one ring circus.

MOAR ENFORCERS!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The Pen's PP has been like this for a long time. The actual seasonal percentages are usually strong, but it seems like the Pens' powerplay doesn't come up big very often in close situations. It's like, at the end of a 3-game stretch it operates at 30% and appears to be running smoothly, but if you take a closer look it'll go something like 3 for 4 in a 7-1 blowout game where they weren't even needed, while going 0 for 6 combined in two 3-2 losses where even 1 PP goal could have swung the result the other way.

Tocchet boasted about being able to fix the PP woes when he was vocal about the issues with last year's Penguins. Yet, the PP just looks the exact same this year. Same sort of inability to produce and instead kill momentum like we've seen in years past.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Because Goc, who's put up a heroic effort centering Sill and Adams is clearly the problem.

Yeah, ngl this really pissed me off. It's ****ing weird how certain players get treated, "hey, so we've made you carry our two worst players... you're getting scratched so we can keep them together."

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That's what my heart says I want to see... but logic questions what will happen to Crosby or Malkin if that does happen?

Not that Philly ever skipped a cheap shot on either, but yeah, it would likely be worse.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Again, someone with more X's and O's knowledge than I have, who has played/coached the game, as I know we have here, maybe answer.

But it seems to me that while losing a player like Hornqvist hurt, the PP really went downhill when other team aggressively challenged the guy with the puck rather than sit back as we do on the PK. Am I seeing things?

 

[Coastal Kev]

Listen to the works of Max Talbot and how he describes the value that a guy like Roberts brings to the team.

 

[Speed Kills]

Who?

Bennett and Ehrhoff are 2.

 

[billybudd]

It's not dangerous. And most of it's early effectiveness was unsustainably high shooting percentage.

If a powerplay with Malkin and Crosby on it hinges on Hornqvist then it's a ****ing stupid powerplay.

They made the same stupid passes through the box last year and were more effective.

Tocchet came in and said he'd make the powerplay better. It is worse than the powerplay that the players ran last year.

Last year, it revolved around not Crosby, not Malkin, but Neal, who was on the edge of the near circle, not on the far side. Neal was so dangerous from range that it's more important to play him than the cross-ice pass.

Crosby and Malkin are both lefties and only one is a mid-range threat. There's not any theoretical configuration I can think of that will do what you're asking.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Yeah we just need to get a Gary Roberts. No problem.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Listen to the works of Max Talbot and how he describes the value that a guy like Roberts brings to the team.

No one is arguing a guy like Roberts' value to a team.

But you, and most people, are leaving out a crucial part of that when calling for a certain guy to come in and fix the team... the ability to play at an NHL scoring line level.

Most of the players you're calling for would never be on the ice at the same time as the other team's star players, let alone catch them to make them pay.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Then why the **** did Adams play, Johnston? Can't scratch the precious.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Bennett and Ehrhoff are 2.

Erhoff absolutely planted a guy late in the 3rd period. Weird for someone who is afraid to hit.

Bennett while not a hitter, didn't shy away from getting hit.

Both were credited with 2 hits.

 

[drpepper]

Last year, it revolved around not Crosby, not Malkin, but Neal, who was on the edge of the near circle, not on the far side. Neal was so dangerous from range that it's more important to play him than the cross-ice pass.

Crosby and Malkin are both lefties and only one is a mid-range threat. There's not any theoretical configuration I can think of that will do what you're asking.

Crosby was the key player in last year's power play not Neal. Neal was a threat, but Kunitz had more powerplay goals, and Crosby had an equal number of power play goals as Neal.

I am not asking for a specific configuration. I am saying that Rick Tocchet boasted that he could easily fix the Penguins powerplay. Under Tocchet outside of the early success (driven almost entirely by unsustainably high shooting percentages), this powerplay has looked worse than last year's regular season powerplay.

His ideas and configurations aren't working.

 

[drpepper]

Then why the **** did Adams play, Johnston? Can't scratch the precious.

I don't know that playing Goc would have changed anything. But he benched a good center for Sill, Adams, Arcobello, and Farnham. It wasn't a good decision.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yeah we just need to get a Gary Roberts. No problem.

My point being is when you add character guys like BGL, Roberts, Ruutu, Asham, Rupp and Engo. It does help your skilled guys take care of their business so that they don't have to fight their own battles.

 

[Quatro Quatro]

I agree that they need a little more toughness, but that person also needs to be capable of actually playing hockey. But they absolutely don't need to build their team to counter the Flyers so called toughness. Literally no team in the league is going to play like the Flyers did last night. It was absolutely gutless.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

My point being is when you add character guys like BGL, Roberts, Ruutu, Asham, Rupp and Engo. It does help your skilled guys take care of their business so that they don't have to fight their own battles.

I'm all for that I think the problem is with our cap you've gotta cut corners somewhere and the 3rd and 4th line are probably your best bets. A few years ago those type of guys went from making $600k to $1.5 mil a year. Hell I bet even BGL could get a million bucks if he was around 30 years old right now.

The problem is we've managed to draft Zach Sill and Bobby Farnham as opposed to a few guys that can at least put up 10 points in a season and get into the occasional fight. It's mind-boggling how many of our problems stem from those drafts. If we'd even drafted a couple of Ashams in the last 7 freakin years we'd be so much better off.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Listen to the works of Max Talbot and how he describes the value that a guy like Roberts brings to the team.

You are making a strawman. Again.

I have yet to see anyone argue agt this team acquiring more physical players.

That doesn't mean you go outside of the rules and take retaliatory penalties, act like fools and become thugs like Philly.

Anyone talking about an eye for an eye on here is clueless and needs a mental evaluation.

 

[billybudd]

Crosby was the key player in last year's power play not Neal. Neal was a threat, but Kunitz had more powerplay goals, and Crosby had an equal number of power play goals as Neal.

I am not asking for a specific configuration. I am saying that Rick Tocchet boasted that he could easily fix the Penguins powerplay. Under Tocchet outside of the early success (driven almost entirely by unsustainably high shooting percentages), this powerplay has looked worse than last year's regular season powerplay.

His ideas and configurations aren't working.

No. Neal was what made the whole thing work, insofar as it worked. He's so dangerous from the high slot that not over-playing him gets you scored on. This opened up passing lanes and bought a half-second here and there for Kunitz when the puck was in the low slot or crease. I'd venture a guess the Pens didn't score many PP goals while Neal was suspended.


As far as Tocchet's ideas not working, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see any strategic problem; it's just execution. And I don't think the Pens are that far from executing everything right.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Then why the **** did Adams play, Johnston? Can't scratch the precious.

Reading **** like that pisses me off. Even if you wanted Farnham's energy, you scratch ****ing Adams, not someone who can actually contribute at the NHL level.