Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Gudbranson and JJ are actually good

[SouthGeorge]

This team needs to average 5+ goals to win against average teams. We need defense now.

They are currently playing the best defensively the last two games than they have in a long time. Murray has let in some weak goals and bad puck luck.

 

[Angrrus]

Very good chance this teams not making the playoffs, feels very weird saying that in the Crosby Malkin era.

Malkin has himself to blame for disappearing for half a season, and then hitting a post in OT like last night.

Crosby could also ask a couple of question to the mirror about how a team where he wears a "C" can mail it in from Oct to Jan believing in "flip the switch" BS.

 

[Vujtek]

Welp I don't know what to say then

I think what I posted is still a legit rule, but I have no clue how the NHL could have thought he had possession there. At what point is it a chip and chase instead of maintaining possession?

Watch full speed Dahlin coming through the neutral zone with the puck. He had the control and possession the whole time, no question about it. Those short gifs out there are highly misleading. That was a good zone entry.

 

[Angrrus]

The Penguins will miss the playoffs by 2 points or less, and it will be because of this game and the outdoor game.

This, but also because of many many games they were going through the motions saying to themselves "Nah, it's not playoffs yet".

 

[Pancakes]

Malkin has himself to blame for disappearing for half a season, and then hitting a post in OT like last night.

Crosby could also ask a couple of question to the mirror about how a team where he wears a "C" can mail it in from Oct to Jan believing in "flip the switch" BS.

I don't like this notion people have that the team is mailing it in. I don't believe that. I think they're just not that good. Like who should be playing better than they are? Crosby is on pace for his best season since 2013-14. Malkin is playing worse than last year but he's also 32 and is still over a PPG. Kessel is at a PPG. Guentzel and Letang are having the best seasons yet of their careers. Dumoulin, likewise. Rust is doing just fine. Hornqvist is doing ok.

I don't think you can expect much more from our top offensive players. It sucks that Kessel has gone 13 or whatever without a goal but he's still at a PPG on the season, so it's not like he hasn't produced.

I think the roster is doing about as well as it can. The sad truth is, this isn't a top notch team any more. It's a solid one that could make the playoffs, but it's not the standout Pittsburgh Penguins of years past.

 

[Angrrus]

JR/Sullivan should both be gone if we miss, which we will. Most likely only Sullivan will go.

Noone will be fired. See: Kings, Blackhawks when they missed PO after winning the Cup.

They bought themselves too long a leash with those Cup chamionships.

 

[Angrrus]

I don't like this notion people have that the team is mailing it in. I don't believe that. I think they're just not that good. Like who should be playing better than they are? Crosby is on pace for his best season since 2013-14. Malkin is playing worse than last year but he's also 32 and is still over a PPG. Kessel is at a PPG. Guentzel and Letang are having the best seasons yet of their careers. Dumoulin, likewise. Rust is doing just fine. Hornqvist is doing ok.

I don't think you can expect much more from our top offensive players. It sucks that Kessel has gone 13 or whatever without a goal but he's still at a PPG on the season, so it's not like he hasn't produced.

I think the roster is doing about as well as it can. The sad truth is, this isn't a top notch team any more. It's a solid one that could make the playoffs, but it's not the standout Pittsburgh Penguins of years past.

I was saying that the team as a whole has been mailing it in too much. Pens won in 2016 and 2017 because every single player on the roster, including Phil and Geno was a relentless crazy puckhound, covered for those who pinched, always gave puck support for puck carriers and backchecked like their lives depended on that. They simply were flying around the ice like chicken with their heads cut off for all 60+ minutes.

And ever since June 2017, they are trying to sleepwalk through half of the games or more, and somehow to win them this way. Not gonna happen.

 

[BHD]

That said, people are going to overreact to every play by every play as long as this team is on the bubble. That’s the nature of the beast.

 

[LittleSpoon]

I think we are starting to look pretty good, and am still pretty confident we make a good run in the playoffs. We lost last night, but managed a point. We play like that for the rest of the season and I bet we take third in the metro at the least. Sometimes bounces don’t go your way, but if the process keeps going the way it is it’s just hard to believe we don’t get in there. And with us fighting to get in, dare I say, we could peak at the perfect time just like in 16. Lines are starting to get set in stone with 1-3 looking great last night. I’d move Wilson down when able to, but everything else looks like it’s starting to come together to me. Believe in the process boys, and enjoy the ride.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't like this notion people have that the team is mailing it in. I don't believe that. I think they're just not that good. Like who should be playing better than they are? Crosby is on pace for his best season since 2013-14. Malkin is playing worse than last year but he's also 32 and is still over a PPG. Kessel is at a PPG. Guentzel and Letang are having the best seasons yet of their careers. Dumoulin, likewise. Rust is doing just fine. Hornqvist is doing ok.

I don't think you can expect much more from our top offensive players. It sucks that Kessel has gone 13 or whatever without a goal but he's still at a PPG on the season, so it's not like he hasn't produced.

I think the roster is doing about as well as it can. The sad truth is, this isn't a top notch team any more. It's a solid one that could make the playoffs, but it's not the standout Pittsburgh Penguins of years past.

The roster's definitely not mailing it in. The problem's that management bumbled its priorities, wasting the cap savings coming from our superstars' sweetheart deals on dubious expensive support players and failing to address the most pressing issues facing the team at the deadline.

Montour would have made so much sense for this team. Instead we cheaped out and got Gudbranson, as if retaining a 1st round pick should be the main concern of a team with a mandate to win now that's currently on the outside looking in on a playoff position. That sums up our problems pretty nicely.

 

[2wayPlay]

Huge game tonight. Cup contending Pens dont lose a game this. After a loss like that.

Tonight will tell a lot.

Don’t get your hopes up

 

[2wayPlay]

I'm actually leaving work 2 hours early tonight so I can hit the gym and watch the game. Gonna thoroughly regret that.

Keep working out

 

[2wayPlay]

Did Malkin kill your puppy or something? You complain about him after each and every game. Allowing a weak wrist shot from the blue line is an unforgiveable defensive blunder somehow. Not Pettersson allowing Sheary of all people to be in position to deflect it (it hit something, it might have been Pettersson himself because they didn't give the goal to Sheary) or Murray being too deep in his crease, nah, it must be Malkin because wrist shots from the blue line are deadly. Kessel not closing the gap on Sheary in the end or Pettersson's suicidal pass is Malkin's fault too, I am sure.

Their goalie outplayed Murray, that was the difference in the game, not lack of commitment. Same as the Philly game which followed the exact same scenario. Considering the injuries the defensive effort wasn't bad at all and we still gave up four goals.

Murray is starting to become a problem. He’s just not the same guy anymore

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Welp I don't know what to say then

I think what I posted is still a legit rule, but I have no clue how the NHL could have thought he had possession there. At what point is it a chip and chase instead of maintaining possession?

The blogger mixed up puck re-entry with player re-entry trying to make excuses for how his favorite team got a huge break.

Like I said, they blew it but it happens. Pens get enough bad calls their way and it mostly evens out.

 

[Angrrus]

twice in a week he's giving up a soft tying goal and OT winner, but some refuse to admit he's gonna be the reason the Pens miss the POs by a point or two.

And even more people forget how he cost us the Caps series last year.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

People have already posted stats pointing out that Murray has been average this season, which is all a team like ours should need to make the playoffs, but the usual suspects are ignoring those stats because they don't fit their biased perceptions of his play. Just say "I don't like him and nothing he does will ever be good enough for me." Or say "I think the goaltender is always to blame when the team loses." Or say "I can't control my emotions when my team loses a regular-season game and I have to rage at the easiest target."

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

People have already posted stats pointing out that Murray has been average this season, which is all a team like ours should need to make the playoffs, but the usual suspects are ignoring those stats because they don't fit their biased perceptions of his play. Just say "I don't like him and nothing he does will ever be good enough for me." Or say "I think the goaltender is always to blame when the team loses." Or say "I can't control my emotions when my team loses a regular-season game and I have to rage at the easiest target."

The irony is one of those posters who is constantly ripping on every goal Murray let in would defend Fleury tooth and nail even when he'd boot pucks into his own net.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Watch full speed Dahlin coming through the neutral zone with the puck. He had the control and possession the whole time, no question about it. Those short gifs out there are highly misleading. That was a good zone entry.

Totally disagree but your entitled to your opinion. No excuses for this garage league. Let’s face it, nobody knows when a penalty is going to be a penalty. From game to game and shift to shift the standards change. One game Simmonds kills Dumoulin and that is not roughing and then Wilson last night checks someone a quarter the force and he gets a roughing call. This is ridiculous. Heck even later that same game Guentzel gets hit harder and nothing was called and he didn’t even have the puck.

Sorry, you can make excuses for this garage league but I will be done with it when our franchise players are done. I watched how this league ruined the career of the most talented player ever to lace up skates in Mario. As long as the officiating is this bad it is not worth paying my hard earned money to watch. I have been a season ticket holder since the Lemieux days but I will be done after Crosby hangs it up. You can support this joke of a league.

 

[Pancakes]

The roster's definitely not mailing it in. The problem's that management bumbled its priorities, wasting the cap savings coming from our superstars' sweetheart deals on dubious expensive support players and failing to address the most pressing issues facing the team at the deadline.

Montour would have made so much sense for this team. Instead we cheaped out and got Gudbranson, as if retaining a 1st round pick should be the main concern of a team with a mandate to win now that's currently on the outside looking in on a playoff position. That sums up our problems pretty nicely.

I don't mind retaining the first round pick given how we've looked this year. I'm not convinced dealing that first would have solved our problems. We're not a player away from being a Cup contender I don't think.

I'm fine with keeping the first and doing some extensive restructuring this off season. Hopefully that includes fixing our blueline.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I didn't really have a problem with Murray's game last night, none of the goals he allowed were really bad goals, and he made some big stops.

I do have a problem with

The 1st goal he gave up against CBJ

The last 2 goals against the Flyers

The last goal against NJ

The Calgary game he played was awful.

Before last night's game he gave up bad goals in 4 straight games, the league is so tight, you just can't do that and expect to get any kind of consistent results.

 

[Angrrus]

I don’t even enjoy watching this team anymore. They just find ways to keep losing games and it is past the point of frustrating anymore.

They don’t deserve to make the playoffs and I hope they don’t. This team, this organization needs to get their heads out of their collective asses and decide whether or not they still want to compete for another Cup. If not, blow this ****ing team up and start over.

There are ZERO excuses any more for this bull****, yet we will hear all of them trotted out as naseum. This is a Charmin soft team that gets pushed around with ease and then loses its **** in frustration and desperation. Nobody on the team has any finish anymore and routinely make AHL goalies look like Vezina winners. They have to deal with all these injuries because teams routinely beat the **** out of them with ease and ragdoll half the team every night.

**** em. At this point I hope they lose tomorrow night too and then against Florida and both to Columbus. Shut this ****ing **** show down and forget this dumpster fire of a season and think long and hard while you’re at the links in April if you still have the hunger and desire to win another Cup.

**** off.

They will soothe themselves down with a bunch of excuses like they did last year, and Kessel will say again “But I still had a bunch of points, not bad, eh?”

There’s zero accountability with this bunch of entitled jerks.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't mind retaining the first round pick given how we've looked this year. I'm not convinced dealing that first would have solved our problems. We're not a player away from being a Cup contender I don't think.

I'm fine with keeping the first and doing some extensive restructuring this off season. Hopefully that includes fixing our blueline.

I think Montour would've done wonders for our transition and would've been well worth a 1st rounder plus - especially with so many of our better puck movers either injured or injury-prone - but we can't fix anything now either way, obviously. What we got is what we got.

The first step is for the org to actually recognize the problem. Until then, we don't have a hope of getting this thing back on the rails.

 

[Pancakes]

I think Montour would've done wonders for our transition and would've been well worth a 1st rounder plus - especially with so many of our better puck movers either injured or injury-prone - but we can't fix anything now either way, obviously. What we got is what we got.

The first step is for the org to actually recognize the problem. Until then, we don't have a hope of getting this thing back on the rails.

It's hard to envision us having long term success with two anchors like JJ and Gudbranson on the blueline. Not unless both of those guys play substantially better than they have the past few years. JJ has looked better since going on his natural side so maybe there's hope there.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I didn't really have a problem with Murray's game last night, none of the goals he allowed were really bad goals, and he made some big stops.

I do have a problem with

The 1st goal he gave up against CBJ

The last 2 goals against the Flyers

The last goal against NJ

The Calgary game he played was awful.

Before last night's game he gave up bad goals in 4 straight games, the league is so tight, you just can't do that and expect to get any kind of consistent results.

If you watched every team in the league as regularly as the Pens, I'm sure you could point out bad goals that all goalies give up at a similar rate.

The difference is most of those teams aren't complete train wrecks defensively like the Pens are, so they can cover for their goalie when he's having an average night. If Murray/DeSmith isn't at the top of their game, 99% chance the Pens lose. Example: Martin Jones has been way, way worse than Murray this year yet his team is battling for first in their division because the team can pick him up when he's having an off night. Murray has an off night, the Pens get curb stomped.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's hard to envision us having long term success with two anchors like JJ and Gudbranson on the blueline. Not unless both of those guys play substantially better than they have the past few years. JJ has looked better since going on his natural side so maybe there's hope there.

Yeah. But there's no hope for JJ...best to douse that right now haha.

It's 7+ mil for 2 defensemen who average 10 points a year and stink defensively. I can't understand how this is something any NHL management team can support in 2019, let alone one that had so much recent success with the exact opposite philosophy. And look at the best team in the league - how many plodders and face-punchers do they have? What year is this?

Maybe Botterill really was the main man behind our success. Our diverging paths since he left seem to support that, my personal distaste for Sheary notwithstanding. I'd rather have Skinner and Montour than JJ and Gudbranson, but maybe that's just me.