Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Gudbranson and JJ are actually good

[ronduguayshair]

Obvious example of your bias, maybe. It's pretty hilarious that you are putting Malkin and Kessel in the same category when one is playing a lot better than the other who hasn't scored in forever. If your definition of "not playing a smart hockey" is allowing a wrist shot from the blue line from time to time, well, I am sorry to tell you but nobody in the NHL plays smart hockey. The Pens outshot the opposition 18-4 with Malkin on the ice but he is totally the team's biggest problem somehow. GWG against the Rags and the Jackets, two goals which almost resulted in a comeback against CGY, a goal that won us a point against the Flyers, setting up Kessel for several glorious chances in every game but nah, he is the real problem.

Yes, he was bad for much of the season, I have no problem admitting that, but since his latest injury he has been really good except for the moment of madness against the Flyers which ultimately didn't cost us anything in the standings. At the end of the day we played without our top 2 D and another top 6 D, thoroughly dominated the game only to lose because our goalie was outplayed by a no name opponent was once again. You can always find a reason to point the finger at players you don't like in games like that. Might as well get all outraged that Crosby passed a shot chance from great position to set up JJ who of course missed.

Agree to disagree. Those are all excuses. A couple of good games doesn’t erase the months of bad ones. That’s a verbal smoke screen you typed out.

 

[Icarium]

In those 13 games, Murray has had 2 bad games (save% below .850), 2 poor games (save% in the .850-.890 range), 2 mediocre games (save% in the .890 to league average) and 7 good or better games (above league average). If your goalie has 2 good starts for every 1 bad start, you're happy with that. Murray has been completely average in this small sample size and has been above average on the year overall. Complaining about goaltending at this point is just a gigantic red flag that you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you're just a standard uneducated yinzer.

The timing of goals matters too. Maybe it's my nostalgia goggles talking, but Murray used to shut the door in games like this almost every time. Now he has allowed two backbreaking goals in the final minutes in less than a week, followed up by two more in the respective OTs. And there is the goal in the final minutes against the Devils which was maybe the worst of them all but thankfully didn't cost us. It's worrying.

A couple of good games doesn’t erase the months of bad ones.

Who said that it does? The fact is Malkin has been playing a lot better lately and you keep criticizing him as he is playing the same as he did in say December and putting him in the same category as Kessel.

 

[EightyOne]

I find it absurdly obnoxious how a few people start screeching about the goaltending anytime the Penguins lose a game. It's getting really tiresome reading the screeching about a goalie who is playing above average both right now and on the year, just because he's not putting up a .930 save% every game. Even if you cut out any wins from the winning streak in December/January and only look at since then, Murray has a .907 save% in 13 games, has given up 3 or fewer goals in 8 of those 13 games and has a save% above average in 7 of 13 games (average being .908 on the year).

In those 13 games, Murray has had 2 bad games (save% below .850), 2 poor games (save% in the .850-.890 range), 2 mediocre games (save% in the .890 to league average) and 7 good or better games (above league average). If your goalie has 2 good starts for every 1 bad start, you're happy with that. Murray has been completely average in this small sample size and has been above average on the year overall. Complaining about goaltending at this point is just a gigantic red flag that you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you're just a standard uneducated yinzer.

It's the standing on his head only to give up weak goals. We've been abused by MAF with that shit too long. Murray does the same...at least he puts it in their net less often.

For the challenge, it completely does. And that's why the Penguins lost the challenge. It didn't matter whether the Sabres player was off-sides originally, because the Sabres left the zone after that off-sides. It should have been blown dead for off-sides originally, but the challenge of calling it a good goal was correct based on this rule. That's why the goal wasn't overturned, that was me saying "it wasn't off-sides".

What a loophole. NHL should change that because even though they tagged up, pens couldn't get a line change done etc and fatigue on the "good" entry by BUF could have cost the game. That's weak.

 

[ronduguayshair]

You're responding to my post saying "this is why the goal wasn't overturned" with complaining about stuff that I wasn't saying in my post. My post was why the Penguins didn't win the challenge, which I'm not sure had been said yet. I really don't know why you're responding to that as if it's wrong. I posted why it wasn't overturned, I don't know why you're saying I'm wrong because "it should have been blown as off-sides immediately".



Oh okay, the stats that show how good he is at stopping pucks shouldn't matter, all that should matter is what your baseless claims are. Gotcha.

If you think Murray has been good enough then it’s a waste of my time to argue otherwise.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

You're responding to my post saying "this is why the goal wasn't overturned" with complaining about stuff that I wasn't saying in my post. My post was why the Penguins didn't win the challenge, which I'm not sure had been said yet. I really don't know why you're responding to that as if it's wrong. I posted why it wasn't overturned, I don't know why you're saying I'm wrong because "it should have been blown as off-sides immediately".

Oh okay, the stats that show how good he is at stopping pucks shouldn't matter, all that should matter is what your baseless claims are. Gotcha.

The Sabres touching up later has zilch to do with this. No clue why you think it does or think the league made this ruling based on that.

 

[Andy99]

This game against MTL is huge...however even if we win it, we still need CLB to lose to get into a PO spot....the bad news is they’re playing EDM which is almost like a guaranteed win...

We need to turn things around against MTL...they’ve had our number this year...have to play much better defensively...someone in MTL commented that Price may play b2b in today’s game...I hope not

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you think Murray has been good enough then it’s a waste of my time to argue otherwise.

If you think Murray playing at an average level is the problem on this team, it's a waste of my time to argue.

The timing of goals matters too. Maybe it's my nostalgia goggles talking, but Murray used to shut the door in games like this almost every time. Now he has allowed two backbreaking goals in the final minutes in less than a week, followed up by two more in the respective OTs. And there is the goal in the final minutes against the Devils which was maybe the worst of them all but thankfully didn't cost us. It's worrying.

But outside of that late goal against Philly, Murray isn't giving up bad goals that are at bad times for the Penguins. A shot getting deflected in front of him isn't a "bad goal".

It's the standing on his head only to give up weak goals. We've been abused by MAF with that **** too long. Murray does the same...at least he puts it in their net less often.

I've been very adamant all along that I don't care about the quality of goals against that a goalie gives, as long as his overall numbers are good. That New Jersey game is a good example, I really don't care about that bad Coleman goal at the end of the game because they still won and his stats were still good with that goal.

What a loophole. NHL should change that because even though they tagged up, pens couldn't get a line change done etc and fatigue on the "good" entry by BUF could have cost the game. That's weak.

I don't think it's a loophole and I actually like that rule overall. It prevents you from challenging from 5 minutes ago because they were off-sides a while ago. And realistically, that was only a goal against because of a really bad play by Pettersson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Sabres touching up later has zilch to do with this. No clue why you think it does or think the league made this ruling based on that.

Are you joking me Jiggy? Just read my damn post, because you're really clearly not. I posted why the challenge in OT wasn't overturned. You're just ranting about how it originally should have been blown dead and saying I'm wrong for the correct reason I'm saying the goal wasn't overturned.

The goal wasn't overturned because they tagged up. That's not saying "he was on-sides because they tagged up", it's saying that the off-sides wasn't challenge-able because they tagged up.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Are you joking me Jiggy? Just read my damn post, because you're really clearly not. I posted why the challenge in OT wasn't overturned. You're just ranting about how it originally should have been blown dead and saying I'm wrong for the correct reason I'm saying the goal wasn't overturned.

The goal wasn't overturned because they tagged up. That's not saying "he was on-sides because they tagged up", it's saying that the off-sides wasn't challenge-able because they tagged up.

I know exactly what you are posting, and you are going off what some blogger says.

We never got an official explanation and what happens after Dahlin touches the puck is inconsequential.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know exactly what you are posting, and you are going off what some blogger says.

We never got an official explanation and what happens after Dahlin touches the puck is inconsequential.

So you're ranting and saying I'm wrong because "we never got an official explanation"? The thing the blogger posted makes absolute sense. You're just dismissing it because you seemingly want to dismiss it.

Look, if you want to dismiss it for whatever reason you want, that's your choice, but don't accuse me of being wrong because you don't want to believe something.

 

[BmxHockey]

This team needs to average 5+ goals to win against average teams. We need defense now.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So you're ranting and saying I'm wrong because "we never got an official explanation"? The thing the blogger posted makes absolute sense. You're just dismissing it because you seemingly want to dismiss it.

Look, if you want to dismiss it for whatever reason you want, that's your choice, but don't accuse me of being wrong because you don't want to believe something.

No, I’m dismissing it because you and the blogger are wrong.

Situation Room Initiated Challenge: PIT @ BUF - 4:11 of Overtime

After reviewing all available replays and consulting with the Linesman, the Situation Room confirmed that Buffalo's Rasmus Dahlin was judged to have possession and control of the puck as he entered the attacking zone prior to the goal. Rule 83.1 states that, "a player actually controlling the puck who shall cross the line ahead of the puck shall not be considered 'off-side,' provided he had possession and control of the puck prior to his skates crossing the blue line."

 

[pistolpete11]

I thought it was a good game

The Pens dominated and it was a fun game to watch with some hard hitting. It's frustrating to lose another late lead and miss out on the 2nd point, but I like the way they're playing the last few games. Wish they would have started playing this way a few months ago, though. They are only a point out of 3rd in the Metro, a game in hand out of the second WC spot, and 2 points with a game in hand out of the first WC spot. If they keep playing this way, I think they will get in the playoffs one way or another. Especially if they can get Lateng and Dumo back somewhat soon.

I thought the entire top 9 played pretty well. Especially encouraging to see Kessel's best game in a while despite not picking up a point. I think it's safe to say Malkin and Hornqvist are officially back to their usual selves. As a whole, they seem to be gaining some chemistry. 4th line was pretty unnoticeable, but they didn't get a ton of ice time.

The defense played OK all things considered. A couple of breakdowns, but what can you really expect out of this group? Damnit is it good to have Schultz back? This season is completely different without him missing 4 months.

I thought Murray played OK, too. The first 2 goals were wide open, point blank chances. The 3rd was a deflection. The 4th one was the weakest one IMO, but he made a number of big saves as well. Just one of those nights where the opposition capitalized on their chances.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I was concerned Shultz wasn’t going to be able to hop right back in the lineup and make a difference. He has exceeded my expectations.

 

[Deczola73]

Laughable fans here. Blowing it up? Murray sucks?

Simple analysis. Malkin made a terrible defensive decision not attacking the point shot which led to tie. It happens.

However, Pettersson last play was horrendous. He is our worse D man by a mile. One boneheaded play after another after another after another. With puck on his stick he could have: reverse around his net with free out, ate the puck in the boards, fire the puck hard around the boards either way, held the puck and pivot. In high school hockey what he did would be bench-able. He tried to make a pass to a player not expecting a pass with the game on the line. Sick of watching this guy. He is as dumb as that Despres idiot the board use to love.

 

[Shrimper]

This game against MTL is huge...however even if we win it, we still need CLB to lose to get into a PO spot....the bad news is they’re playing EDM which is almost like a guaranteed win...

We need to turn things around against MTL...they’ve had our number this year...have to play much better defensively...someone in MTL commented that Price may play b2b in today’s game...I hope not

If we won tonight, wouldn't be pass MTL due to fewer games played?

 

[Andy99]

If we won tonight, wouldn't be pass MTL due to fewer games played?

I think you’re right...I was looking at ROW and I forgot about games played

 

[BHD]

Laughable fans here. Blowing it up? Murray sucks?

Simple analysis. Malkin made a terrible defensive decision not attacking the point shot which led to tie. It happens.

However, Pettersson last play was horrendous. He is our worse D man by a mile. One boneheaded play after another after another after another. With puck on his stick he could have: reverse around his net with free out, ate the puck in the boards, fire the puck hard around the boards either way, held the puck and pivot. In high school hockey what he did would be bench-able. He tried to make a pass to a player not expecting a pass with the game on the line. Sick of watching this guy. He is as dumb as that Despres idiot the board use to love.

Overreaction much? Pettersson had a bad game for sure, but he's been steady overall. And Despres... sorry, your take is waaay off.

 

[ownal]

Murray is a 1B goalie. I hope we can trade DeSmith and get Robin Lehner next year. We need a 1-2 punch when it comes to goaltending.

 

[Gurglesons]

Overreaction much? Pettersson had a bad game for sure, but he's been steady overall. And Despres... sorry, your take is waaay off.

I mean Pettersson is 22 if these are “bad games” I’m 100% okay with it.

 

[Shrimper]

Murray is a 1B goalie. I hope we can trade DeSmith and get Robin Lehner next year. We need a 1-2 punch when it comes to goaltending.

This is the first year Lehner has had something resembling a good season.

Murray is perfectly fine too, as is De Smith. It's the team in front that is the problem but people seem to just willing to ignore that.

 

[BladeRunner66]

Murray is perfectly fine too, as is De Smith. It's the team in front that is the problem but people seem to just willing to ignore that.

I wouldn't go as far as "perfectly fine" but yeah, the decimated D doesn't help.

However it seems that Murray's dad passing has had a negative effect on him but that could just also be a coincidence given the D problems.

 

[pistolpete11]

Laughable fans here. Blowing it up? Murray sucks?

Simple analysis. Malkin made a terrible defensive decision not attacking the point shot which led to tie. It happens.

However, Pettersson last play was horrendous. He is our worse D man by a mile. One boneheaded play after another after another after another. With puck on his stick he could have: reverse around his net with free out, ate the puck in the boards, fire the puck hard around the boards either way, held the puck and pivot. In high school hockey what he did would be bench-able. He tried to make a pass to a player not expecting a pass with the game on the line. Sick of watching this guy. He is as dumb as that Despres idiot the board use to love.

Saying Petterson is their worst defenseman is what is laughable. He's been very good for the Penguins and he's only 22. He shouldn't be out there for 3-on-3 in the first place, but with their other options at the moment....it is what it is.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean Pettersson is 22 if these are “bad games” I’m 100% okay with it.

Even as a very vocal critic of that trade, this is true.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No, I’m dismissing it because you and the blogger are wrong.

Situation Room Initiated Challenge: PIT @ BUF - 4:11 of Overtime

Welp I don't know what to say then

I think what I posted is still a legit rule, but I have no clue how the NHL could have thought he had possession there. At what point is it a chip and chase instead of maintaining possession?