Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Gudbranson and JJ are actually good

[WheresRamziAbid]

++++ Geno/Horny: Yeah I'm putting these 2 together because they took a crap load of (some deserved) heat from playing poorly. Tonight they absolutely brought it. Horny did everything he does that makes him great. Geno was acting like he's 22 out there. He was unreal out of this world. I don't think I have enough words for him. His attention to detail on defense was superb and he had me on the edge of my seat all game.

+++ JJ/Gudbranson: They are playing simple. They are playing smart. They are actually helping this defense. I cannot believe how well they are playing. Superb defense and they are doing it with huge minutes on top lines. Whatever... I love it. It's amazing.

+++ Murray: He still isn't looking as solid as he did in our playoff runs but he made huge saves in key times. You cannot deny that. There were 2 key saves that changed the way this game was played.

+++ Florida boys: I freaking love McCann and I rarely make a strong call prior to seeing a player play in our system. He was a slam dunk for a long time and he's ****ing young! He's 22 years old. Are you kidding me? Also that shot by Bjugs. Holy hell.



I'm not going to sit here and harp on negatives. This team is without Letang, Dumo, Rust, and Maatta. We have to be fair in our assessment. We controlled the game and it is what it is. They are staying afloat right now and that's all we can ask for. We just desperately need a speedy recovery from both Dumo/Letang. Period.

Got a point.... we move on.

Despite the result i love how they played.

Absolutely tilted the ice and caved them in.

Without 3 of our top 4 defensemen and Rust.

 

[treeni12]

So Murray and Desmith somehow forget how to sto0 pucks whenever geno is on the ice?

I would say it's combination of Malkin playing poorly defensively, bad luck and bad goaltending. Having 87 sv% without playing any SH is almost impossible.

 

[Tumty]

The Pens played a lot better than I expected... still found a way to lose somehow. Pettersson with two really, really dumb passes, leading to two Sabres goals. Malkin screwed up too but come on, you can't pass behind your back in your own zone in OT, I don't care how tired he was this just can't happen. If it had been JJ he would have been crucified but I guess blaming Malkin is the cool thing to do. Malkin was flying all game long, takeaways, set-ups, hit a post and ended up minus two. The story of his season. And an indictment on Kessel because he had to bury at least one of the many chances he had.

We had good forecheck, decent defence considering the circumstances, then in the final minutes we played a bit too cautiously again and got burned again. But Murray allowing a weak wrist shot from the blue line and being outplayed by the backup of a bad team is so frustrating. And to top it a off clear offside which is allowed because god forbid a team be out of the playoff race in March.

Happy to see Horny back on the board and the PP scoring, even though it still looked mostly clueless. Gudbranson wasn't particularly noticeable apart from one glaring blunder when he was left in the dust, that's good I guess. Have to rally and beat the Habs tomorrow, we have been good with our backs against the wall this season, so I have hope. But Kessel needs to start scoring, at least he is playing better lately but can't bury his chances.

Story of Malkin's season? Not even close. He has been ghost of Malkin. Has had many easy points early on.. Has been okay lately, but deffo not story of his season

 

[Terrapin]

Gub was pretty good. Got walked once, but other than that was fine

Tired or lazy I don't care, Geno in OT was pretty embarrassing

Murray sucks. Your #1 goalie simply cannot give up 4+ a game. If he doesn't get it together we aren't making the playoffs.

Our 4th line provides absolutely nothing. I didn't even notice them once tonight. Cullen should be behind the bench, not on it. Wilson is rarely noticeable.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Exclusive footage with Mike Sullivan and Tim Peel after the game:

 

[TimmyD]

.908 last playoffs
.907 last season
.910'ish right now

Don't "haha what" me please. This team needs a better starting goalie. Either DeSmith gets back to the form he had for almost a year or we're ****ed. It should be the FIRST THING you secure if you want to go anywhere. You don't just leave it with gaping question marks and hope for a miracle. Like what the ****. GMJR should know better than this.

He’s at a .911 currently So if he is a “whatever” starting goalie what does that make Fleury (.910) Hellebuyck (.910) and Holtby (.909)?

 

[Icarium]

Story of Malkin's season? Not even close. He has been ghost of Malkin. Has had many easy points early on.. Has been okay lately, but deffo not story of his season

Fine, the story of many games in which he played well and somehow ended up a minus because Kessel can't hit the broadside of a barn or our goalie's save percentage with Malkin on the ice is almost as bad as when shorthanded. And yes, there have been too many games in which Malkin himself was terrible but not enough to result in his awful plus/minus. JJ has a better plus/minus, after all.

 

[ncm7772]

are people really blaming murray on the 3rd goal? a shot that deflected off his defense man in front?

Absolutely blaming him!

Not really we are 21 - 17 when scoring the first goal. That is insane. We lose 45% of the time when starting off with a lead.

Example of a team that's just not that good.

9 OT/SO losses

With so much talent....

Do they even practice 3 on 3 or the shootout? Have a plan for it? Does Sullivan give a ****? It doesn't seem like he's the type of coach that thinks he needs to bother with gimmicks... But those gimmicks will keep him out of the playoffs.

9 points given up. Even winning half of those puts us comfortably ahead in the metro

Not to mention 7, SEVEN!!!! Regulation losses to last place teams. Simply inexcusable. Team has no one to blame but themselves if they miss the playoffs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For the people who watched the game closer than I did, how did you like Gudbranson? I liked what I saw in the 1st period, but I wasn't able to watch closely beyond that outside of OT. He looked way better than what was advertised by Canucks fans.

 

[treeni12]

Let's give Kessel couple more games because he has started shooting again. They have to go in at some point, right??

 

[ronduguayshair]

Did Malkin kill your puppy or something? You complain about him after each and every game. Allowing a weak wrist shot from the blue line is an unforgiveable defensive blunder somehow. Not Pettersson allowing Sheary of all people to be in position to deflect it (it hit something, it might have been Pettersson himself because they didn't give the goal to Sheary) or Murray being too deep in his crease, nah, it must be Malkin because wrist shots from the blue line are deadly. Kessel not closing the gap on Sheary in the end or Pettersson's suicidal pass is Malkin's fault too, I am sure.

Their goalie outplayed Murray, that was the difference in the game, not lack of commitment. Same as the Philly game which followed the exact same scenario. Considering the injuries the defensive effort wasn't bad at all and we still gave up four goals.

Excuses excuses. Look over here not over there. I pointed out the game tying and winning goal because that’s an obvious example. But there are tons of plays Malkin and Kessel make that aren’t smart plays committed to winning.

Malkin Kessel Murray. Those are the top three reasons we aren’t in the playoffs right now. They are not playing to their contracts.

 

[ronduguayshair]

For the people who watched the game closer than I did, how did you like Gudbranson? I liked what I saw in the 1st period, but I wasn't able to watch closely beyond that outside of OT. He looked way better than what was advertised by Canucks fans.

I thought his skating and passing were above average for a big defenseman.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also just an FYI, here's why the goal wasn't overturned apparently:



So we don't know if Dahlin was onsides or not, but since he left the zone, it didn't matter and you couldn't challenge the off-sides.

 

[zero8771]

That apparently has earned a free pass to ****ing **** up because of that. According to fans and apparently the upper management and ownership.


Remember the last time that happened?

I'm sure you'll say he isn't. But after a few more years of this. Your tune will change.

No my tune will never change that Sullivan actually knows something about hockey. If you look at the post I responded to, @pensx made a statement saying that the team learns nothing from Sullivan because he knows nothing. I responded because this is toxic/arrogant and demonstratably false.

Even if you think Sully has reached his shelf life and should be gone yesterday, attacking him by saying that he knows nothing about hockey after his career is just... To be generous... Puzzling.

 

[zero8771]

I’m sure Crosby leaves practice full of knowledge from that chooch coach.

Wake up

Ya man you nailed it. Chooch coach. Know nothing. Definitely hasn't accomplished anything or had any impact on the team and league.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Also just an FYI, here's why the goal wasn't overturned apparently:



So we don't know if Dahlin was onsides or not, but since he left the zone, it didn't matter and you couldn't challenge the off-sides.

Uh, no.

He was offside and touched the puck after he passed it to himself. Right there the whistle is to be blown.

It doesn’t matter if he goes back and touched up. Makes zero sense.

 

[Icarium]

Excuses excuses. Look over here not over there. I pointed out the game tying and winning goal because that’s an obvious example. But there are tons of plays Malkin and Kessel make that aren’t smart plays committed to winning.

Obvious example of your bias, maybe. It's pretty hilarious that you are putting Malkin and Kessel in the same category when one is playing a lot better than the other who hasn't scored in forever. If your definition of "not playing a smart hockey" is allowing a wrist shot from the blue line from time to time, well, I am sorry to tell you but nobody in the NHL plays smart hockey. The Pens outshot the opposition 18-4 with Malkin on the ice but he is totally the team's biggest problem somehow. GWG against the Rags and the Jackets, two goals which almost resulted in a comeback against CGY, a goal that won us a point against the Flyers, setting up Kessel for several glorious chances in every game but nah, he is the real problem.

Yes, he was bad for much of the season, I have no problem admitting that, but since his latest injury he has been really good except for the moment of madness against the Flyers which ultimately didn't cost us anything in the standings. At the end of the day we played without our top 2 D and another top 6 D, thoroughly dominated the game only to lose because our goalie was outplayed by a no name opponent was once again. You can always find a reason to point the finger at players you don't like in games like that. Might as well get all outraged that Crosby passed a shot chance from great position to set up JJ who of course missed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I find it absurdly obnoxious how a few people start screeching about the goaltending anytime the Penguins lose a game. It's getting really tiresome reading the screeching about a goalie who is playing above average both right now and on the year, just because he's not putting up a .930 save% every game. Even if you cut out any wins from the winning streak in December/January and only look at since then, Murray has a .907 save% in 13 games, has given up 3 or fewer goals in 8 of those 13 games and has a save% above average in 7 of 13 games (average being .908 on the year).

In those 13 games, Murray has had 2 bad games (save% below .850), 2 poor games (save% in the .850-.890 range), 2 mediocre games (save% in the .890 to league average) and 7 good or better games (above league average). If your goalie has 2 good starts for every 1 bad start, you're happy with that. Murray has been completely average in this small sample size and has been above average on the year overall. Complaining about goaltending at this point is just a gigantic red flag that you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you're just a standard uneducated yinzer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Uh, no.

He was offside and touched the puck after he passed it to himself. Right there the whistle is to be blown.

It doesn’t matter if he goes back and touched up. Makes zero sense.

For the challenge, it completely does. And that's why the Penguins lost the challenge. It didn't matter whether the Sabres player was off-sides originally, because the Sabres left the zone after that off-sides. It should have been blown dead for off-sides originally, but the challenge of calling it a good goal was correct based on this rule. That's why the goal wasn't overturned, that was me saying "it wasn't off-sides".

 

[ronduguayshair]

No my tune will never change that Sullivan actually knows something about hockey. If you look at the post I responded to, @pensx made a statement saying that the team learns nothing from Sullivan because he knows nothing. I responded because this is toxic/arrogant and demonstratably false.

Even if you think Sully has reached his shelf life and should be gone yesterday, attacking him by saying that he knows nothing about hockey after his career is just... To be generous... Puzzling.

Because people don’t want to look in the mirror and blame their favorite players. So it’s easier to blame the coaching staff.

 

[Shrimper]

The fact that people are praising Murray right now bothers me.

Well he didn't play badly.

Only goal he could have done better on maybe was the 4th

 

[xlm34]

For the people who watched the game closer than I did, how did you like Gudbranson? I liked what I saw in the 1st period, but I wasn't able to watch closely beyond that outside of OT. He looked way better than what was advertised by Canucks fans.

I thought he looked pretty good. Surprised me by how competent he looked in the offensive zone. He definitely seems like he might struggle with faster forwards off the rush, but he only got burned once.

 

[ronduguayshair]

I find it absurdly obnoxious how a few people start screeching about the goaltending anytime the Penguins lose a game. It's getting really tiresome reading the screeching about a goalie who is playing above average both right now and on the year, just because he's not putting up a .930 save% every game. Even if you cut out any wins from the winning streak in December/January and only look at since then, Murray has a .907 save% in 13 games, has given up 3 or fewer goals in 8 of those 13 games and has a save% above average in 7 of 13 games (average being .908 on the year).

In those 13 games, Murray has had 2 bad games (save% below .850), 2 poor games (save% in the .850-.890 range), 2 mediocre games (save% in the .890 to league average) and 7 good or better games (above league average). If your goalie has 2 good starts for every 1 bad start, you're happy with that. Murray has been completely average in this small sample size and has been above average on the year overall. Complaining about goaltending at this point is just a gigantic red flag that you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you're just a standard uneducated yinzer.

Murray hasn’t been good enough. His inconsistency has cost us games. The stats should not be the be all end all.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

For the challenge, it completely does. And that's why the Penguins lost the challenge. It didn't matter whether the Sabres player was off-sides originally, because the Sabres left the zone after that off-sides. It should have been blown dead for off-sides originally, but the challenge of calling it a good goal was correct based on this rule. That's why the goal wasn't overturned, that was me saying "it wasn't off-sides".

No, when he touched the puck after passing it to himself, the play should have been blown dead. It doesn’t matter what happens after that.

You can’t touch a puck when you are offside and be like “oops” and go back and touch up and it’s all good. The whistle is to be immediately blown in that instance.

No clue why people are trying to reinvent the rule here. League blew it, it happens.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No, when he touched the puck after passing it to himself, the play should have been blown dead. It doesn’t matter what happens after that.

You can’t touch a puck when you are offside and be like “oops” and go back and touch up and it’s all good. The whistle is to be immediately blown in that instance.

You're responding to my post saying "this is why the goal wasn't overturned" with complaining about stuff that I wasn't saying in my post. My post was why the Penguins didn't win the challenge, which I'm not sure had been said yet. I really don't know why you're responding to that as if it's wrong. I posted why it wasn't overturned, I don't know why you're saying I'm wrong because "it should have been blown as off-sides immediately".

Murray hasn’t been good enough. His inconsistency has cost us games. The stats should not be the be all end all.

Oh okay, the stats that show how good he is at stopping pucks shouldn't matter, all that should matter is what your baseless claims are. Gotcha.