Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 2 - The Murray and Sid show!

[ColePens]

So basically Imo this team has two pressing problems... they rarely score unless it is off the rush. Their offense while set in the zone is just piss poor (which is the problem with the power play as well...), and they won’t block shots.... both of these are heart and will issues... offense set in the offensive zone is Best created when guys go to the net and we play on the parimeter too much

and shotblocking is a job anyone can do, if they have the desire to, that is...

It always feels like the supporting wingers are on the weak side of the ice and not supporting at all in the o-zone. Then on top of that, they get stuck too low when Montreal is already moving out. Washington/Philly will make you eat that shit 24/7. I constantly feel they are not supporting one another and on a different page. We funnel low to high and instead of 2 forwards making shit happen skating to the net to give Price a headache, they are on the weak side looking for one of the dumbest backdoor passes through 8 guys.

The only guy getting in there and working his ass off is of course Horny. And it's not just standing in front of the net. It's driving in/out. Supporting your mate in a cycle then getting in front for the point shot. That zooming back/forth creates space, lanes, and disruption. Instead our weak side wingers stand and then skate to the weak side.

 

[Tender Rip]

This was tried though during the season and our transition defense went to shit. It was weird and was something that happened. I'm not trying to defend ZAR here, because he hasn't been good, but we did try this before and it failed. McCann is a bigger issue than anyone else of our forwards. Sully can't trust him.

We did? I honestly don’t recall this, but I must say that I dont think Lafferty over ZAR can be a valid reason for transition D to fail. There are more pieces to that, and more important ones.
Either way, Lafferty started like he was shut out of a cannon and then faultered. Only looked good again in camp.

Just the same, right now I’d play him over ZAR to try to add wheels and flair to that line. If it doesn’t work, OK. It shouldn’t make or break us. In reality the Blueger line goes as Tanev and Teddy go, and they are not looking like they did earlier in the season either so far.

 

[ImporterExporter]

This was tried though during the season and our transition defense went to shit. It was weird and was something that happened. I'm not trying to defend ZAR here, because he hasn't been good, but we did try this before and it failed. McCann is a bigger issue than anyone else of our forwards. Sully can't trust him.

I simply look at it as an infusion of youth. A guy who apparently showed very well leading up to this series in camp/scrimmages/exhibition game. We need to get something offensively from the 4th line at some point to be successful IMO.

Teddy B needs to be the defensive linchpin on the 4th line anyway. Let him work high in the offensive zone while Tanev and Lafferty wreak havoc on the boards. ZAR is a responsible defensive player no doubt but I'd like a little more depth impact. That's how you win in the playoffs. You get the little bit extra from the bottom 6, offensively, defensively, etc.

ZAR has ran his course IMO. He's a solid defensive winger who doesn't play physical enough and simply doesn't impose any sort of will in the offensive zone. I think Lafferty would bring a fire to the line, even if it is just energy based though watching him, he absolutely seems to have more offensive upside than ZAR ever did. And Laff isn't afraid to throw his weight around.

It won't happen because ZAR has sort of adopted the Adams (not that he's as putrid as Adams) role from the Disco Dan era.

 

[CupOfCoffey]

I simply look at it as an infusion of youth. A guy who apparently showed very well leading up to this series in camp/scrimmages/exhibition game. We need to get something offensively from the 4th line at some point to be successful IMO.

Teddy B needs to be the defensive linchpin on the 4th line anyway. Let him work high in the offensive zone while Tanev and Lafferty wreak havoc on the boards. ZAR is a responsible defensive player no doubt but I'd like a little more depth impact. That's how you win in the playoffs. You get the little bit extra from the bottom 6, offensively, defensively, etc.

ZAR has ran his course IMO. He's a solid defensive winger who doesn't play physical enough and simply doesn't impose any sort of will in the offensive zone. I think Lafferty would bring a fire to the line, even if it is just energy based though watching him, he absolutely seems to have more offensive upside than ZAR ever did. And Laff isn't afraid to throw his weight around.

It won't happen because ZAR has sort of adopted the Adams (not that he's as putrid as Adams) role from the Disco Dan era.

I had high hopes for ZAR but to me he’s an AHL/NHL tweener. I had hope he would be that winger than can play up and down the lineup and establish a good net front presence but it isn’t going to happen. Lafferty or Rodrigues should get a look in his spot

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I can’t find anything showing save% where goalies get beat (glove side, etc.). I remember someone saying Mirray is above avg. in sv% glove side. Can someone show a chart on this? Thanks!

I don't think those stats are publicly available, unfortunately. There are some old articles floating around where I think the authors did their own analyses of where goalies get beaten most often, and Murray is mentioned among others, but nothing current as far as I know.

 

[Peat]

We did? I honestly don’t recall this, but I must say that I dont think Lafferty over ZAR can be a valid reason for transition D to fail. There are more pieces to that, and more important ones.
Either way, Lafferty started like he was shut out of a cannon and then faultered. Only looked good again in camp.

Just the same, right now I’d play him over ZAR to try to add wheels and flair to that line. If it doesn’t work, OK. It shouldn’t make or break us. In reality the Blueger line goes as Tanev and Teddy go, and they are not looking like they did earlier in the season either so far.

By the numbers, that line died a horrible ugly death the moment ZAR was removed (while switching Blueger or Tanev out was fine) and while we're dealing with a small sample, the level of horror and ugliness reached a peak when Lafferty was the guy in. Which I can't entirely explain, but I think to a certain extent trying to add flair to that line would be in fact work hard against it. That line plays real low event hockey both ways and spends a lot of its time chipping it into corners or skating it behind the net or grinding down low and only really good for shooting opportunities when they're near the net. Lafferty doesn't. Lafferty looks for the first shot he can make, which means a far higher possibility of a big rebound or block kicking for a transition chance the other way, which is anathema to how the line is currently set up to play.

Statistically ZAR is a notably more involved breakout player too tbf.

 

[Andy99]

Interesting note to point out: despite their struggles with actually producing, the Penguins have far away the highest xGF/60 of any team in the playoffs so far in all situations and 2nd highest at 5v5. Based on their shot locations and totals, they should be at about 5 goals a game in the playoffs so far (9.95 xGF). Price is just stonewalling them and the Penguins aren't finishing.

So yeah, I'm not getting the doom and gloom. When the Penguins are playing up against a team that isn't trapping and doesn't have a rested Price, they're going to be producing a lot more than they are now.

yeah but with this ice, every team is going to be trapping against them...

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Feels good when they do the thing and crush the brah.

 

[Empoleon8771]

yeah but with this ice, every team is going to be trapping against them...

And those teams don't have a rested Carey Price in net.

The only team I'm worried about trapping the Penguins is Boston, because Rask is amazing, they've done it before and they have the physicality to knock the Penguins around. Tampa, Washington, Philly, Carolina and such aren't going to do that to the Penguins.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It always feels like the supporting wingers are on the weak side of the ice and not supporting at all in the o-zone. Then on top of that, they get stuck too low when Montreal is already moving out. Washington/Philly will make you eat that shit 24/7. I constantly feel they are not supporting one another and on a different page. We funnel low to high and instead of 2 forwards making shit happen skating to the net to give Price a headache, they are on the weak side looking for one of the dumbest backdoor passes through 8 guys.

The only guy getting in there and working his ass off is of course Horny. And it's not just standing in front of the net. It's driving in/out. Supporting your mate in a cycle then getting in front for the point shot. That zooming back/forth creates space, lanes, and disruption. Instead our weak side wingers stand and then skate to the weak side.

When watching other games in this playoffs, you see a stark contract in how they create chances in the offensive zone compared to the Pens. Our forwards without the puck just seem to kind of glide around the perimeter hoping the puck carrier can hit them for a tap in or a shot from out far instead of driving the center and opening up space that way.

Consequently, our offensive chances are either a]puck carrier having to do everything and maybe once in a while setting someone up for a low percentage shot or b]randomly tossing the puck on net and hoping Price lets in a weak one, but no one driving to the net to bang in the rebound.

 

[Andy99]

And those teams don't have a rested Carey Price in net.

The only team I'm worried about trapping the Penguins is Boston, because Rask is amazing, they've done it before and they have the physicality to knock the Penguins around. Tampa, Washington, Philly, Carolina and such aren't going to do that to the Penguins.

Huh? Hart and Vasi are excellent...out of the teams mentioned however TB is the least likely to trap...if Holtby is on, as he was in 2018, and the Caps revert to their Trotz ways, they’ll beat us trapping as well...Carolina and Philly both play forms of the trap now...despite the goaltending, I think all of those teams would beat the Pens as they’re currently playing..Pens have too many weaknesses to go far in the POs

 

[Andy99]

When watching other games in this playoffs, you see a stark contract in how they create chances in the offensive zone compared to the Pens. Our forwards without the puck just seem to kind of glide around the perimeter hoping the puck carrier can hit them for a tap in or a shot from out far instead of driving the center and opening up space that way.

Consequently, our offensive chances are either a]puck carrier having to do everything and maybe once in a while setting someone up for a low percentage shot or b]randomly tossing the puck on net and hoping Price lets in a weak one, but no one driving to the net to bang in the rebound.

We cannot create good offensive chances off the cycle game...bad support as you say...we either have to make a stretch pass off a mistake or generate offense off the rush...it’s very limiting and why trapping is very effective against the Pens...CLB would beat us handily like they did to the Leafs last game...we need to be effective making short passes with strong support from the wingers or we’re essentially going nowhere...

 

[The Old Master]

This was tried though during the season and our transition defense went to shit. It was weird and was something that happened. I'm not trying to defend ZAR here, because he hasn't been good, but we did try this before and it failed. McCann is a bigger issue than anyone else of our forwards. Sully can't trust him.

laff can play center.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Huh? Hart and Vasi are excellent...out of the teams mentioned however TB is the least likely to trap...if Holtby is on, as he was in 2018, and the Caps revert to their Trotz ways, they’ll beat us trapping as well...Carolina and Philly both play forms of the trap now...despite the goaltending, I think all of those teams would beat the Pens as they’re currently playing..Pens have too many weaknesses to go far in the POs

Hart and Vasi are 1000000% not Carey Price, nor are those teams going to play a trap like the Habs are.

 

[Fatty McLardy]

Can't imagine this version of pens beating anyone good. Hell we might not even beat montreal and they're trash.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

On a random note, I thought Marleau played a more effective "heavy game" in Game 2. He was total trash in Game 1, but actually looked solid in Game 2. That line with Hornqvist might actually be a difference maker if McCann wasn't such a mess.

 

[Andy99]

Hart and Vasi are 1000000% not Carey Price, nor are those teams going to play a trap like the Habs are.

philly already plays a trap...do you watch them?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Did Malkin take another major shoulder injury or something when we weren't looking? Doesn't look like dude is ever going to score again. Troubling outing from the guy who was supposed to cleanup on matchups this series, so far...

Terrific game by Murray, Sid and Marino. Most everything else doesn't instill much confidence. Credit to Montreal, though... they are the exact kind of team that gives the Penguins fits and Price looks like he's in good form. Though I agree that a lot of these chances aren't super dangerous. The Penguins are tossing a lot of garbage at him. Especially line 2.

Hopefully they can continue to find a way to eke past this 24th seeded juggernaut.

I'm not trying to make excuses but the ice really is a travesty. Game was damned near unwatchable. At one point two Pens were trying to pass it to each other behind the net and the puck literally died about halfway there. Do they get the third game the rest of the way?

 

[Genetic]

Wow imagine not being able to enjoy their first playoff win in 2 seasons. Did we forget these guys haven't played in 4 months? Did we expect to win every game 8-0? Woof.


Edit : *Lafferty needs to be in for McCann right now. He is on the struggle bus.

 

[The Old Master]

Can't imagine this version of pens beating anyone good. Hell we might not even beat montreal and they're trash.

yeah! but we have the answers. it's will sully play them?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Did Malkin take another major shoulder injury or something when we weren't looking? Doesn't look like dude is ever going to score again. Troubling outing from the guy who was supposed to cleanup on matchups this series, so far...

Terrific game by Murray, Sid and Marino. Most everything else doesn't instill much confidence. Credit to Montreal, though... they are the exact kind of team that gives the Penguins fits and Price looks like he's in good form. Though I agree that a lot of these chances aren't super dangerous. The Penguins are tossing a lot of garbage at him. Especially line 2.

Hopefully they can continue to find a way to eke past this 24th seeded juggernaut.

I'm not trying to make excuses but the ice really is a travesty. Game was damned near unwatchable. At one point two Pens were trying to pass it to each other behind the net and the puck literally died about halfway there. Do they get the third game the rest of the way?

I think one of the problems Malkin is having is he needs to adjust his game to bad ice. He's playing the way he does when the ice is good and he can gallop around the ice, stickhandling around people, and making highlight reel plays. The problem is the ice is so bad that that's very difficult to do and you almost have to "dumb down" your game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well he better get real dumb with it then because whatever he's doing out there now is really hard to watch.

 

[Peat]

Well it worked for them in 2010 and Tampa almost made it work for them in 2016. There are only 2 ways to go here.

1) Go full trap and ONLY look to counter. However - this needs a great powerplay to cash-in on. Montreal, in my opinion, should 100% go full trap and only look to counter.

2) Try to trade blow for blow w/ the Pens. Good luck. That's a toughie. I think they can try to stretch behind our defense. We've seen that work before, but it doesn't fit Montreal or their style. They could say "Hey Carey... we are going to just let you hang out to dry tonight. We are going to try and run/gun them."

Option 1 is their best chance at winning. Ottawa did it in 2017 and Game 7 2OT was the result. Tampa did it in 2016 and Game 7 was the result. Montreal did it in 2010 and they won. And this team is more like 2010 in terms of confidence. 2016 and 2017 was damn near unstoppable. Especially 2016.

I don't really see option 1 as much different from what they're doing. They're already being real conservative about how much they let forwards get low, which means limited transition opportunities for us/a ton of dump-ins/their best opportunities are mostly coming from their own transition chances.

I'm not trying to make excuses but the ice really is a travesty. Game was damned near unwatchable. At one point two Pens were trying to pass it to each other behind the net and the puck literally died about halfway there. Do they get the third game the rest of the way?

Against Montreal, yes. Don't know how it works in any rounds beyond that. I guess the coaches are happy enough to not have to alter routines due to times, but they must hate getting that particular slot.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Wow imagine not being able to enjoy their first playoff win in 2 seasons. Did we forget these guys haven't played in 4 months? Did we expect to win every game 8-0? Woof.


Edit : *Lafferty needs to be in for McCann right now. He is on the struggle bus.

Lafferty-Marleau-Hornqvist?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't really see option 1 as much different from what they're doing. They're already being real conservative about how much they let forwards get low, which means limited transition opportunities for us/a ton of dump-ins/their best opportunities are mostly coming from their own transition chances.

Maybe it's just my untrained eye, but it seems like the Pens' defense has an issue with letting up once they think they've got Montreal covered (for lack of a better description). It's like they'll have numbers back, they'll have a guy covering the Montreal forwards, but then they'll have a half second lapse and a guy that's covered is suddenly able to unleash a dangerous shot even with a Penguins' defender literally right with him.

There were quite a few times where it looked like the Pens had the Habs contained and then suddenly they'd be able to get off a dangerous shot in the slot and I'd be like, "WTF? Our defenseman is literally there with him."