Confirmed with Link: COL/WSH Grubauer, Orpik for Avs 2018 2nd round pick

[member 116861]

So, awesome?

Lmao

 

[CalderKing21]

You say circumvention, it seems like such a dirty word. I prefer the thought process of the Avs brokering a beneficial deal for all parties involved.

 

[Grigowski]

Does it look like a cap circumvention? Maybe, but i don´t give a shit about what other teams think. Chicago is operating in this mode for years, so are others. Sakic took the chance to get Grubauer for a 2nd and cash only (Orpik´s buyout). And Washington was able to sign Carlson. Win-Win for both.

 

[Balthazar]

The thread on the main board is pretty interesting.

Dude had one year left at 4.5M cap hit and managed to come back and play that very same year on the same team for 1M cap hit, all while keeping all his money. You're not allowed under the CBA to renogociate your salary for a signed year but Orpik did just that through a loophole and apparently he's the 1st player to do that, ever.

I think they'll close that loophole on the next CBA.

 

[McMetal]

The thread on the main board is pretty interesting.

Dude had one year left at 4.5M cap hit and managed to come back and play that very same year on the same team for 1M cap hit, all while keeping all his money. You're not allowed under the CBA to renogociate your salary for a signed year but Orpik did just that through a loophole and apparently he's the 1st player to do that, ever.

I think they'll close that loophole on the next CBA.

Yes, but total cap space in the league remains the same, because most of the cap hit and cash came via the Avs. Circumvention means you are using an underhanded method to exceed the cap on paper. I don't think that's happening here.

I really think this is making a mountain of a molehill. There's nothing shady here. Washington paid assets for cap relief, and the Avs leveraged cap space to gain assets. Both are as old as the cap, and although this is a new method for accomplishing those ends, ultimately these are basic, fundamental mechanics of a hard cap system.

As for Orpik, there's nothing in the CBA that forbids bought-out players from signing elsewhere in order to recoup the 1/3 of their salary that was lost in the buyout. In every other instance before, the team that bought them out wants to get rid of them and wouldn't sign them back even if the players wanted it. This time, the team that wanted to get rid of his salary wanted the player back, and the feeling was mutual.

I don't see this catching on much around the league. If they're going after cap circumvention, the league is first going to go after teams like Arizona circumventing the cap by going under the floor with dead money like the Datsyuk contract without having to actually spend the cash, which violates at least the spirit of the CBA, if not the letter (yet).

 

[Ivan13]

I doubt Sakic was a part of this huge operation to help the Caps, we needed a goalie, got one with starter potential for virtual peanuts because we took advantage of our cap situation and bought out a guy who we didn't want on the team.

 

[CalderKing21]

The Caps and Avs have always had a seemingly good working relationship. The 2 FO's work well together. Don't see it as anything other than both sides needed to make a move and each ensured it was beneficial to one another. Avs had a need that Washington filled, the Caps had a need that Colorado filled.

 

[S E P H]

29 other teams had a chance to sign Orpik to a contract and offer him more than 500K which the Caps did, lets wait until it happens to an actual good player before calling it a loophole.

 

[Pokecheque]

29 other teams had a chance to sign Orpik to a contract and offer him more than 500K which the Caps did, lets wait until it happens to an actual good player before calling it a loophole.

Exactly. The Caps arguably made themselves WORSE with this signing, so whatever.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I doubt Sakic was a part of this huge operation to help the Caps, we needed a goalie, got one with starter potential for virtual peanuts because we took advantage of our cap situation and bought out a guy who we didn't want on the team.

100. Joe was looking to help Joe while also keeping a trade partner happy. I liked it then and I like it now.

 

[Balthazar]

29 other teams had a chance to sign Orpik to a contract and offer him more than 500K which the Caps did, lets wait until it happens to an actual good player before calling it a loophole.

That's implying that Orpik wasn't in it and was open to sign elsewhere, which is obviously not the case. Not like the Caps would have tried to pull that one without talking to Orpik first.

 

[Balthazar]

Exactly. The Caps arguably made themselves WORSE with this signing, so whatever.

That's not the point though, the point is it's illegal under the CBA for team Y to trade a player to team X, then have team X retain salary and trade him back to team Y. That's exactly what the Caps did with Brooks Orpik and the AVS but they went through a loophole to do it.

Orpik was signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 4.5M. Now he's signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 1M. That's textbook cap circumvention whether we like Grubauer or not.

 

[EdAVSfan]

That's not the point though, the point is it's illegal under the CBA for team Y to trade a player to team X, then have team X retain salary and trade him back to team Y. That's exactly what the Caps did with Brooks Orpik and the AVS but they went through a loophole to do it.

Orpik was signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 4.5M. Now he's signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 1M. That's textbook cap circumvention whether we like Grubauer or not.

That actually not the same thing at all.

The reason why trades back and forth are not allowed is because it’s colluding and takes every other team out of the league.

In Orpik’s case, every single team had the option to get Orpik for free, and chose not to.

Orpik isn’t functioning on one contract. He had a contract, it was terminated, and then he signed another.

As I said on the main board, this is complete inconsequential move. It’s not opening the door for other teams. There are so few situations where this kind of move would ever work.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

That's not the point though, the point is it's illegal under the CBA for team Y to trade a player to team X, then have team X retain salary and trade him back to team Y. That's exactly what the Caps did with Brooks Orpik and the AVS but they went through a loophole to do it.

Orpik was signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 4.5M. Now he's signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 1M. That's textbook cap circumvention whether we like Grubauer or not.

I could be wrong but believe this is different for two reasons:

1. The Avs didn't trade for him, retain salary and trade him back. We bought him out making him an UFA. He then chose to sign with the Caps, he could've signed anywhere.

2. Now this is from a long time ago, so the CBA may have changed things but back there used to be a rule against a player being traded from team X to team Y and then back to team Y in the same year. This happened to Dean McAmmond back in the 02/03 season. He was part of the return for Chris Drury. If I remember correctly, he was sort of promising but was just an injury disaster while with us. At the deadline the AVs traded him back to Calgary for a 5th round pick...But he was not allowed to play for the Flames the rest of the season.

 

[Balthazar]

The Avs didn't trade for him, retain salary and trade him back.

The result is the exact same which is why it's a loophole. The player remains with the original team with a lesser contract and the AVS get the cap hit difference. Actually it's even worse because the AVS "retained" more than 50% in this case.

We bought him out making him an UFA. He then chose to sign with the Caps, he could've signed anywhere

Orpik had no intention to sign elsewhere. I think it's cute that they waited a month to re-sign him, and then "disguised" 500k of his 1.5M missing in the buyout into performance bonuses. All he has to do to get his 500k is showing up for 40 games.

You think its a coincidence that his buyout is worth 3M and they signed him for 1.5M? He was going to earn 4.5M before all this.

 

[McMetal]

The result is the exact same which is why it's a loophole. The player remains with the original team with a lesser contract and the AVS get the cap hit difference. Actually it's even worse because the AVS "retained" more than 50% in this case.



Orpik had no intention to sign elsewhere. I think it's cute that they waited a month to re-sign him, and then "disguised" 500k of his 1.5M missing in the buyout into performance bonuses. All he has to do to get his 500k is showing up for 40 games.

You think its a coincidence that his buyout is worth 3M and they signed him for 1.5M? He was going to earn 4.5M before all this.

Still though, that's up to Orpik. The key word in "unrestricted free agent" is the first one. If a player only wants to sign with one team as a UFA, that is absolutely their right, and he became a UFA immediately after the buyout went through.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

No, I don't think it's a coincidence, I just don't think it's a loop hole either. Much like every "loop-hole" GMs find in the CBA, there is nothing wrong with them. Everything done here has been accomplished within the regulations set forth by the CBA. Don't get me wrong, I think it's kind of silly but I for one am glad we finally have a GM savvy enough to take advantage of a good deal and an owner willing to cut a check to make it happen.

People heap praise on Arizona for taking on dead contracts for assets all the time. This is no different really and neither example violates the CBA.

Are you angry the AVs made this move? That the NHL allowed the transactions? Or just upset that Bettman isn't really concerned about cap-circumnavigation and leaves openings large enough in every CBA for GMs to drive a truck through?

 

[Avs_19]

I'm just glad the Avs took advantage of the situation and used their cap space to get a sweet deal on Grubauer. That's all I care about.

 

[dahrougem2]

The result is the exact same which is why it's a loophole. The player remains with the original team with a lesser contract and the AVS get the cap hit difference. Actually it's even worse because the AVS "retained" more than 50% in this case.



Orpik had no intention to sign elsewhere. I think it's cute that they waited a month to re-sign him, and then "disguised" 500k of his 1.5M missing in the buyout into performance bonuses. All he has to do to get his 500k is showing up for 40 games.

You think its a coincidence that his buyout is worth 3M and they signed him for 1.5M? He was going to earn 4.5M before all this.

None of this matters. He was traded to Colorado in a legal manner, and he was bought out, thus making him a UFA.

Teams, including the other teams in the Eastern Conference, were more than able to offer him a contract above 1.5M and he chose Washington, fully within his right as a UFA. There is no loophole at all. The Capitals lost Grubauer in all of this.

 

[henchman21]

Seems like much ado about nothing... everything was perfectly legal in the situation, and I can't see many (if any) other situations where this could ever work. The NHL owners might get petty at the optics of the situation and do something in a future CBA (never put it past them), but this isn't a big deal at all.

 

[Pokecheque]

That's not the point though, the point is it's illegal under the CBA for team Y to trade a player to team X, then have team X retain salary and trade him back to team Y. That's exactly what the Caps did with Brooks Orpik and the AVS but they went through a loophole to do it.

Orpik was signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 4.5M. Now he's signed for the 2018-19 season with the Caps for 1M. That's textbook cap circumvention whether we like Grubauer or not.

I get your point, but I really don't think it's that big a deal. I also think your implication that Sakic is somehow involved in some kind of collusion here is a bridge too far. You have no evidence of that other than "he didn't sound like the Sakic we know." To which I say: What!? This isn't Kevin McHale signing Joe Smith under the table.

 

[CalderKing21]

I'm just glad the Avs took advantage of the situation and used their cap space to get a sweet deal on Grubauer. That's all I care about.

Imagine if Grubauer helps us win a cup.

 

[AvsGuy]

Dammit I’d forgotten all about Dean McAmmond

Guy was a big schwing and a miss for the Avs after a career season. Hell the whole Morris-Drury trade was a whiff

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

It's hardly a loophole if you pay for it. Smart move. We got goaltender for cheaper because we took Orpik and bought him out. Washington paid assets to us, we spent money.

 

[Nzap]

Every team had a chance to get Orpik for free on buy-out waivers.
This is a nothingburger