Confirmed with Link: [COL/NYR] Holden for a 4th round pick
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And that article is exactly why Roy is out of a job. He can't evaluate talent. Period. Nick Holden is at best a 3rd pairing d-man probably best suited in 6th/7th d-man roll. I don't think there are too many scouts/professionals that would disagree with this assessment. Not to mention the advanced stats will back this evaluation.
When you have Roy saying things like Holden is one of my better d-man, there is a problem. At best last year he was the 4th best d-man on our team.
So glad Roy is no longer part of the organization. It sounds like he is just off his rocker. I'm glad Sakic is still around it seems like he can actually evaluate the state of the team and get rid of dead weight like Holden.
This is just further proof that Roy was probably behind most of the questionable decisions regarding personnel and contracts.
When you have Roy saying things like Holden is one of my better d-man, there is a problem. At best last year he was the 4th best d-man on our team.
So glad Roy is no longer part of the organization. It sounds like he is just off his rocker. I'm glad Sakic is still around it seems like he can actually evaluate the state of the team and get rid of dead weight like Holden.
This is just further proof that Roy was probably behind most of the questionable decisions regarding personnel and contracts.
Obviously you didn't even read the article. Roy said he is a #4 (or as you said, our 4th best) to a #6.
And its you who has the poor evaluation here. But, I guess the Rangers have no idea what they are doing either
. Holden is not this joke some of you make him out to be. #4 to a #6 on a good team is spot on. You are right about one thing though, when Roy or anyone is saying Holden was one of our better DMen that is a problem. That's a problem with our roster and lack of good Dmen. Like he said, on a good team Holden is a #6.
Do what now? How is that sabotage? Interesting and curious? Sure. But Sabotage?
RockLobster
King in the North
How the hell is this "news"? Oh, well I guess it is to the Roy-hating crowd (i.e.--the people who blame everything that went wrong with the team on him), but take a step back and look at the time when Holden was here...he was one of the better defensemen the Avs had, and that should tell you how bad the Avs D was.
Bubba Thudd
is getting banned
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
It's not a dead horse and it's literally is news to hear what our former coach and VP did after the trade while he was still employed here.
RockLobster
King in the North
No, in the grand scheme of things it really isn't...because I don't believe it's uncommon for coaches to talk about recently traded players to their new coach. I mean, I'm not deleting anything because no one is breaking the rules, but it's really comical to find the people I'd expect to be in here using something as innocuous as Roy reaching out to AV and telling him about Holden (and accurately referring to him as "one of his better defensemen"...because sadly that was true for Holden's time here) as a means of "OMG guyz! See!"
It might be more fuel for the Roy haters, but it is still news and I appreciate that it was posted.
Obviously you didn't even read the article. Roy said he is a #4 (or as you said, our 4th best) to a #6.
And its you who has the poor evaluation here. But, I guess the Rangers have no idea what they are doing either
You are right about one thing though, when Roy or anyone is saying Holden was one of our better DMen that is a problem. That's a problem with our roster and lack of good Dmen. Like he said, on a good team Holden is a #6.
Do what now? How is that sabotage? Interesting and curious? Sure. But Sabotage?
I misread the part about him being 4-6, I thought that was what NYR/Vigneault was saying which is a fine assessment. I thought Roy was saying he should be higher and was one of our best d-men. But I realize I misread that part.
My assessment though of Holden is not far off, I think the advanced stats will back me on this one. he should be a bottom pairing guy, that's it, nothing more, nothing less. If he is used there he is a good player. If he is used higher not so much.
Avs44
Registered User
- May 16, 2011
- 21,687
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To me, the most insightful thing about it is how far apart Roy and Sakic seemed at the end. Saying "you just got one of my best defensmen" sounds pretty wistful...and it's not like the return was good enough to make Roy feel comfortable losing one of his better defenders.
The Shermanator
HFBoards Legend
My favourite part is how he says Holden is anywhere from a #4 to a #6 on a good team. Yet he played him top pairing minutes here. Telling.
I still love him though.
I still love him though.
- Feb 24, 2012
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The advanced stats absolutely don't say that. Here is a link to his HERO chart.
http://public.tableau.com/shared/WC6D74ZMN?:display_count=yes
The only areas he isn't middle pairing for are goals per 60 (top pairing) and first assists per 60 (bottom pairing). He is pretty much right smack in the middle of being a middle pairing advanced stats player.
klozge
Avs
There were at least three defenders (EJ, Barrie, Beauchemin) who were and are much better than Holden. Holden was never one of the better defensemen. Also safe and dependable??? Just another example of Roy watching different games than everybody else.
The Kingslayer
Registered User
Holden is a cool dude if you ever had a chance to talk to him. I immediately felt bad for dissing him so much after I met him haha.
dahrougem2
Registered User
#6 on a good team, maybe. #4, no.
He was thrust into that role here, but it doesn't mean on a good team he should be playing middle pairing minutes
He was thrust into that role here, but it doesn't mean on a good team he should be playing middle pairing minutes
LieutenantDangle
Barry McKockner
he definitely seems like a great guy, but never seemed too interested in hockey.
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
RockLobster
King in the North
You should re-read what I said. I agreed w/ Roy's assessment of Holden when you look at Holden's entire time in an Avalanche uniform. You mention 3 players from last year only, but to go off of that, Roy was still accurate in describing him as "anywhere from a #4 to a #6", so as a #4 he'd be right behind those three you mentioned.
The Kingslayer
Registered User
He tried when he played for us he just wasnt good for a huge chunk of his playing time here and it doesnt look like its gotten any better in New York.
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
I thought Holden looked great in the 1st round against Minnesota in 2014. He just looked really bad at a lot of other times.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,277
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"...depending on where his game was."
Saying the absolute best your game is capable of taking you to is a #4, is not some lofty endorsement. You could say that about a lot of crappy D men who are capable of playing decent a few times throughout a season.
I'm sure it never occurred to anyone that Roy probably also gave him some negative reviews of his game, and positions he struggles with, and what the best way to coach him was, but AV obviously wouldn't air that publicly.
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