Proposal: COL/MTL: S. Girard for B. Gallagher?

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Habs are better off trading picks for Dunn or Leddy or signing Krug. Gallagher is not gonna be traded. Giroux is too costly.

OS Dunn or trade for Leddy, Krug isn't wasting his time in Montreal.

 

[NeverBeNormal]

Girard ain't going nowhere with that contract.

 

[Meeqs]

You’re just kind of off in your evaluation of Girard.

He’ll have ups and downs as he grows as a player, but this year he was a very reliable D-man shift-to-shift. He doesn’t make a lot of mistakes honestly.

But, I don’t think he’ll ever have elite offence. His value lies in the consistency of his outlet passing, skating the puck out of trouble, gap control, stuff like that.

Youre surprised that the guy who thinks teams want to trade for Price isn't good at player eval lol

 

[Richard88]

I like Girard a lot but I would prefer Graves. Habs have enough pint-size players.

Domi for Graves ????

 

[McJedi]

Long time lurker, first time poster. (be gentle, plz!)

I feel the Avs seem to need a little grit in the top 6 forwards. It feels like ages since the Avs had some truculence in the mold of Deadmarsh, Smyth, Lemieux. The closest thing to sandpaper the Avs have in the top 6 is Landeskog

The Avs have some great cap space, but... might want delve from a position of strength and add some depth/grit in the Top 6. I'd ask for a Nino Niederreiter, but I doubt that Carolina's going to be giving him up any time soon, and they've got no need for any D prospects anytime in the next 5-7 years.

So... looking for comparables, Brendan Gallagher comes to mind as a potential option. Mind you, it's doubtful MTL is looking to trade, but... plz humor me.

With the Avs building up a surplus of young D (Timmons, Byram), a flatter than expected cap, and a number of key contracts up for renewal (MacKinnon, Makar, Landeskog) it's not far fetched to see them back in the same situation that triggered Barrie's trade. Girard is on a great long-term contract right now.

COL (out)
Sam Girard
Alex Beaucage
2021 3rd

for

MTL (out)
B. Gallagher

What say you, folks?

glad you don’t work for the Avs. The best player in this deal is Girard and he’s locked up for so long on a good deal. And you just sent him away for a gritty forward that’s a UFA next year and 28.
Then you add a decent prospect and a pick. My word. Worst deal I’ve seen on this site in a while. And self inflicted too.

 

[HOPE]

I like Girard a lot but I would prefer Graves. Habs have enough pint-size players.

Domi for Graves ????

Graves is a decent piece but he's the last thing Montreal need at the EXPENSE of a skilled player.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Like any young player, I don’t think his future is written in stone, but he was a really important player on a very good hockey team this year.

Girard is 22-years old and already a veteran of 225 NHL games. Some Avs fans (not me) think he’s the best defenceman on Colorado. He helped lead a defence to the 3rd lowest goal total in the Western Conference.

I think throughout his career he’ll be somewhere between a mid-caliber top pairing defender and a mid-caliber second pairing defender. He’ll probably fluctuate between those two levels.

Girard is a core player for the Avs.

I always struggle to assess players like Girard. Part of me thinks no he is not a true top pairing dman however in reality he is playing that role on a contender. Part of the problem is there is a wide range for top pairing. So therefore I accept your answer.

Similarly for Petry, I don’t think he is top pairing but statistically he qualifies.

 

[Meeqs]

I always struggle to assess players like Girard. Part of me thinks no he is not a true top pairing dman however in reality he is playing that role on a contender. Part of the problem is there is a wide range for top pairing. So therefore I accept your answer.

Similarly for Petry, I don’t think he is top pairing but statistically he qualifies.

I always felt that assessing players based on their location in the depth chart caused issues due to it being over simplistic at the expense of being more accessible. It varies so much based on team and there is SO much more that goes into the position that its better not to worry about it so much, especially for dmen.

For example both Girard and Petry are good enough to play on a top pair with a partner that suits their skill set, but likely not with a partner that doesn't. And when you look at modern day defensive cores, the individual roles that a team needs to be filled is a massive consideration as well. Most teams top 4 dmen get about the same 5 on 5 ice time and its really the special teams that cause the gap.

So I've always tried to assess it as "does player X bring a dynamic that a team is looking for, is the overall skill level there, and is there a spot that makes sense for him".

 

[ole ole]

Even with Gallagher resigned, I'd much rather the Avs just keep Girard and try to build the best young D in the NHL. We can find a ~50 point winger somewhere else.

Ya and we can find 4 goal D-man too.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

To me, the ideal target would be a guy like Shane Ghostisbere. He is a one dimensional dman that ended up on the Flyers bottom pairing due to defensive lapses. Pair him with Weber and you can maximize his offense while minimizing his errors. I don’t think he would cost the Habs much to acquire. His puckmoving style and point production would work well and would help fix our woeful pp.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

To me, the ideal target would be a guy like Shane Ghostisbere. He is a one dimensional dman that ended up on the Flyers bottom pairing due to defensive lapses. Pair him with Weber and you can maximize his offense while minimizing his errors. I don’t think he would cost the Habs much to acquire. His puckmoving style and point production would work well and would help fix our woeful pp.

Chiarot and Petry were a good pairing and Romanov to the third pairing to ease him into the league.

 

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

This is a horrible trade for the Avs, can't tell if you're an Avs fan or not because Montreal would take that and run - and the last thing they need is another undersized defender.

And now what would really happen.

Sakic: Hey Marc Joe Sakic here.
Interested in Girard, Beaucage and a 3rd for Gallagher?

Bergevin: Thanks for the offer Joe, but I'm keeping my teams heart and soul.

Hangs up and walks away slowly.

 

[member 149439]

Why Beacage?? lol

Only reasoning I see behind it is he was getting lots of trade requests on nhl20 for him. I sure seem to for some reason.

easy pass on this trade for me. Girard is about to start his next contract cementing him as a core player. Sorry no thanks.

 

[Spilot23]

Ya and we can find 4 goal D-man too.

This screams Zadorov he had 4 goals this season

 

[Junohockeyfan]

This screams Zadorov he had 4 goals this season

Only if you add Jost + 2nd

 

[Hasbro]

IF Colorado really thought they needed a goalie (debatable) then you go out and sign Markstrom, Lehner, Holtby, etc for 3-4 years. You do not give up the assets Montreal fan wants at even 8m for Price. The last thing you do is trade for goalies and hope they are good at 38 when they are showing slippage at 32.

Hell Lundqvuist for one more year at $8.5 if they feel like they need someone to push them over the hump.

 

[Odie Cleghorn]

To me, the ideal target would be a guy like Shane Ghostisbere. He is a one dimensional dman that ended up on the Flyers bottom pairing due to defensive lapses. Pair him with Weber and you can maximize his offense while minimizing his errors. I don’t think he would cost the Habs much to acquire. His puckmoving style and point production would work well and would help fix our woeful pp.

How does putting him with Weber do that? Weber needs someone defensively responsible to make up for his lack of mobility.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

How does putting him with Weber do that? Weber needs someone defensively responsible to make up for his lack of mobility.

Weber is a rock on the backend. He doesn’t need anyone to help him defend. Chiarot freed up Weber to attack more. But Weber would insulate Ghost.

Weber would maximize Ghost’s offense and would cover his deficiencies.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I have no doubt the Avs are going to try the "alright" goalie in their cup quest. Could work or it could also fail. I think you will have a hard time finding a goalie like Price at $8M AAV moving forward. Of course you can try season after season to find the right fit.

Price keeps getting voted as the top choice by NHLPA for a game 7. I think the players know what they are talking about. And for the record. If Price had the value he had when he was 27, I'd ask for more than Girard and Newhook... especially if we were retaining Price down to $8M.

But hey, try the decent goalie or bargin bin goalie approach first. It might work.

Isn't Girard's contract the right AAV? He jumped to 34 pts in 70 games with 4 goals. That prorates to 40 pts and 5 goals. Pretty sure that's $5M in today's NHL moving forward? Or do you think he becomes a Rielly type and gets to 50-60 pts or more as he gets older?

Theodore, Lindholm, Slavin, Jones, McAvoy, Chychrun, Ghost all have similar cap hits. 50 guys on D had 30+ pts this past year. Girard was ranked 47th (pts/game) but he also is the type that gets more offensive zone starts than defensive ones too.

I think $5M is the right number for Giard to be honest. If he starts to produce 50-60 or more pts, then yeah, his contract is very very good. Not there yet though.

Never been a better time to find a bargain goalie. Too bad you already have Francouz and Grubauer under contracts for next season. Lets see how they do in this playoffs. I think this is a fluid situation with the Avs in net. If you are held back because of your goalie, I think the narrative changes overnight. Might not target Price (even at $8M) but Sakic is not going to just sit back and go with the bargain goalie year after year and waste prime years of MacKinnon.

I think Price is a victim of the team he plays with. Bergevin has not found a #1C in 8 years now. Jumping on Price's back cause of failed team accomplishments is foolish IMO. And in the players poll, they actually talked about that

RFA/UFA does matter. Girard will become a very good contract if he produces more. If he stays at 40 pts and 5 goals, it's close to being the right number IMO.

I have honestly never seen one poster spew more complete and utter nonsense in a single thread then what I just read in here.


JFC. You can refer to Grubauer/Francouz as "Bargin bin" goaltenders all day long. The actual fact is that both goalies put up significantly better numbers than Price did this year, and in the last 3 years Grubauers numbers are significantly ahead of Price as well.


Price has not produce elite numbers in this league for 3 years now. He is the very definition of a guy living off of a reputation in the league at this point. It's honestly comical to read the Montreal trade boards literally every day to see the same 2-3 posters trying to pawn Price off to Colorado while actually expecting we give up Girard + Newhook+ as the sort of returns.


And you keep saying Price is an elite goalie, and that elite goalies dont tend to age as poorly as elite players do.... How many goalies in the NHL right now are over the age of 35 and actually considered good starting goalies right now? Go ahead, look it up. Goalies age just like players do and the stats overwhelmingly suggest Price is already in a decline at this point, a bad contract when he signed it 3 years ago is only going to get worse in the next 6 years.

Nobody, absolutely nobody is trading anything of any remote value for that contract and quite frankly if the league introduces a compliance buyout sometime in the next 3 years due to the pandemic and associated cap situation... Carey Price will be one of the first names to appear on just about every list of top compliance buyout candidates.


As for the Girard part... Again it is amazing how nonchalantly you can paint a picture with so much bias against one player on the main boards and then turn around make every possible garbage proposal as you can possibly make on the Habs board. "He gets far more offensive zone starts then most comparable Dmen around him" Yes, because Colorado is one of the legitimately best teams in the league who spend an enormous amount of time in the oppositions offensive zones. Ignoring the fact zone starts is a brutal statistic to base an argument around in and of itself... You're going to use it without any basis of fact regarding the teams these kids play for and without even acknowledging that Girard is the best Dman and one of 2 go to guys for offensive situations on one of the very best offensive teams in the league. Of freaking course he's going to have more offensive zone starts. And coach with half a brain is going to use him as such.


And of course you do nothing to mention his defensive play. Once again, the Avs were also Top 10 in the league for GAA this year, and since you've already made it abundantly clear in this thread that you think we have very average bargain bin goaltending, it muse be the Defense that is the reason the Avs are borderline unbeatable at 5 on 5. Well guess what, that 5 on 5 Defense is lead entirely by Sam Girard who played significantly more minutes than every other Avs Dman this year at even strength. Besides the fact he averaged nearly 2 full minutes a night over anyone else, he was also the only Dman on the team to play every single of the season for the Avs.


So he's the go to Dman, and the best Defensive dman, on a Top 10 defensive team and top cup contender in the league. Who also scored at a 40 point pace, and did so without getting regular Top PP minutes(Again another significant factor in production from Dmen you completely ignore). And he did so while being just 21 years old. And he's signed for a fresh contract for 7 more years at less money then what any other comparable Dman has recently signed for.

 

[Flyer lurker]

To me, the ideal target would be a guy like Shane Ghostisbere. He is a one dimensional dman that ended up on the Flyers bottom pairing due to defensive lapses. Pair him with Weber and you can maximize his offense while minimizing his errors. I don’t think he would cost the Habs much to acquire. His puckmoving style and point production would work well and would help fix our woeful pp.

How dare you talk common sense. Flyers fans want 1's for Ghost and Habs want offer sheets for Serge.

And while I wouldn't love the trade as Flyers fan in any sense, I get why it can happen.

Flip side I also get putting Ghost on the 2nd pairing until they are comfortable at pushing Romanov with more minutes. Maybe game 40 Maybe 21-22 but Ghost is at worst a good stop gap for Romanov and at best they get a 2nd pair 1pp d-man.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

How dare you talk common sense. Flyers fans want 1's for Ghost and Habs want offer sheets for Serge.

And while I wouldn't love the trade as Flyers fan in any sense, I get why it can happen.

Flip side I also get putting Ghost on the 2nd pairing until they are comfortable at pushing Romanov with more minutes. Maybe game 40 Maybe 21-22 but Ghost is at worst a good stop gap for Romanov and at best they get a 2nd pair 1pp d-man.

I get the feeling the Flyers want to close the book on Ghost. Is this correct?

Habs are one of the few teams that can insulate Ghost with Petry and Weber on the right side.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Avs say no.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

How dare you talk common sense. Flyers fans want 1's for Ghost and Habs want offer sheets for Serge.

And while I wouldn't love the trade as Flyers fan in any sense, I get why it can happen.

Flip side I also get putting Ghost on the 2nd pairing until they are comfortable at pushing Romanov with more minutes. Maybe game 40 Maybe 21-22 but Ghost is at worst a good stop gap for Romanov and at best they get a 2nd pair 1pp d-man.

Agreed. Ghost to Mtl makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Philly has young defenders pushing for increased roles and Montreal could use a little more offensive creativity on the blue line. Could be a nice opportunity for a bounce back season for Ghost too.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Agreed. Ghost to Mtl makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Philly has young defenders pushing for increased roles and Montreal could use a little more offensive creativity on the blue line. Could be a nice opportunity for a bounce back season for Ghost too.

Do I get a soul clap?

 

[Flyer lurker]

I get the feeling the Flyers want to close the book on Ghost. Is this correct?

Habs are one of the few teams that can insulate Ghost with Petry and Weber on the right side.

Flyer FAN wants Ghost back in, Hagg put in a rocket to Neptune and problem solved.

AV/Ghost just never clicked all year. Ghost had bad first 2 months, benched, played well for 2 weeks, knee got hurt, played 2 games rest of the year.

And from playing point of view virus hurt Ghost the most as Myers was hurt and Ghost was playing 4 weeks straight no matter what.

Ghost has little shot of being kept (Provorov, Sanheim, Myers are lock keepers) unless he goes nuts good, you go 4-4, and expose Partick, Voracek, and Lindblom (which seems unlikely).

You would be a fool if you at least didn't listen to offers.