Proposal: COL/MTL: S. Girard for B. Gallagher?

[Meeqs]

But this whole thread is about the Avs acquiring Gallagher. What he is "by NHL standards" doesn't matter if he's not better than the guys we already have, and on the Avs, he'd be a 2nd or 3rd line winger, depending on how everything works out. And giving up a top pairing LHD to acquire a guy to play on your 2nd/3rd offensive line is stupid.

I totally get and agree with you here, I just think you are missing my point.

Value to a team and player ability are 2 entirely separate things.

Just because Crosby would play on a teams 2nd line doesn't make him not a 1st line caliber center. How a team utilizes a player doesn't change their ability.

When you are correct in your assessment and can state it multiple ways and be correct then there is no reason to state things that aren't true.

 

[Meeqs]

Fair. Close the thread then. Cause both teams say no to Girard and Gallagher trade

Ohh yeah, like that is obvious. But if they close the thread now where can I see your hot fire NHLPA takes? Can you start up a thread about it so I don't have to lose you in my life

 

[Habs Halifax]

That's the problem here no ones want to pay a goalie something around $8M$ most of these goalies that wins SC or are good couple seasons are getting paid after that. Avs are the last team should go all in on a goalie considering what happened to Florida with Bobrovski they could've tried to sign Pietro or Hall this summer with that money. Pretty sure that if Grubs wins the cup it will cost something around 6-7M$ to extend him. Binnington went from a 650K goalie to 4.4M$ after winning the cup.

I think players know what a god like Price can do that's probably why they voted for him in one game 7. The problem is the risk of getting the average one which is probably close to what we have right now in Grubs. The Avs would give up Girard, their #1 LHD and Newhook their best offensive prospect for him. I also highly doubt you would get anything more than Girard and Newhook for Price at 27. First off, Habs would've probably never traded him and even then which contenders can afford a Price while not breaking up their core. Teams like Flames, Oilers or even Wild would be better suited than the Avs.

Never been a better time to find a bargain goalie. Too bad you already have Francouz and Grubauer under contracts for next season. Lets see how they do in this playoffs. I think this is a fluid situation with the Avs in net. If you are held back because of your goalie, I think the narrative changes overnight. Might not target Price (even at $8M) but Sakic is not going to just sit back and go with the bargain goalie year after year and waste prime years of MacKinnon.

I think Price is a victim of the team he plays with. Bergevin has not found a #1C in 8 years now. Jumping on Price's back cause of failed team accomplishments is foolish IMO. And in the players poll, they actually talked about that

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ohh yeah, like that is obvious. But if they close the thread now where can I see your hot fire NHLPA takes? Can you start up a thread about it so I don't have to lose you in my life

No, close the thread cause you are offended that I said the NHLPA's opinion trumps yours and you are about to get nasty now

 

[Meeqs]

No, close the thread cause you are offended that I said the NHLPA's opinion trumps yours and you are about to get nasty now

I am very offended, practically fell over. You really should be more careful of my delicate flower like sensibility. I have been crushed, just utterly crushed, I don't see how I could manage to keep on going should this thread be shut down. Please guy with Monster Energy drink quality name, please show me the way. Save a nasty nasty man like me from the perils of common sense and being able to look at any relevant stat you could possibly find. Show me the error of my ways with these vital polls

 

[Richard88]

If Price was declining, the NHLPA would not pick him for a game 7 go to goalie in the yearly player poll. I can respect the Avs wanting to go with the bargin goalie but not going to respect Price's value at $8M AAV being thrown under the bus. Two different things at play here and I ask Avs fans to take a step back on that. Or you can continue to act that way like so many on HF boards do.

Price is signed from 32-38. Elite level goalies don't decline like players do but you can disagree with that. There is not much you can find to support your opinion though.

In a cap league, cap hits matter. Colorado's current goalie duo is both way cheaper and statistically better than Price. Which is why Colorado got ranked 1st on The Athletic's goalie tandem rankings (linked below), and Montreal is 28th.

Which is why I said that Colorado would have no interest in acquiring Price, even for free at $8m. We're quite happy to have a tandem playing really well, at half the cost ($5.33m) of what a tandem with Price at $8m would cost.
Bang for your buck: Ranking all 31 goalie tandems based on...

Moreover, we're not only happy in the short-term with Grubauer/Francouz, but also in the medium to long term as well as we have Justus Annunen in the pipeline who The Athletic rank as the 7th best drafted goalie prospect as per the article linked below published today.
Wheeler: The top 10 drafted NHL goalie prospects ranking,...

Now, Price might hold up nicely until he's 39, but there's absolutely no reason for Colorado to take that risk while reducing the amount of cap flexibility AND paying good assets.

 

[HuGo Sham]

interesting proposal becoming a flame war. No need for a pissing contest. colorado would make this move IF it was a need and an extension was in place. In a vacuum, deal favours Habs because of Girard's age and contract. From the perspective of Habs fans, gally is part of one of the best 5 on 5 lines in the league, is a possession monster and shift-disturber. He's essential on a team thin up front that has trouble scoring. Just look at habs winning % when he's been injured. IF habs blew it up, he might be available in a pacioretty type deal if he wanted to play for a contender.... but bergevin seems set on keeping vets around during the rebuild

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Isn't Girard's contract the right AAV? He jumped to 34 pts in 70 games with 4 goals. That prorates to 40 pts and 5 goals. Pretty sure that's $5M in today's NHL moving forward? Or do you think he becomes a Rielly type and gets to 50-60 pts or more as he gets older?

Theodore, Lindholm, Slavin, Jones, McAvoy, Chychrun, Ghost all have similar cap hits. 50 guys on D had 30+ pts this past year. Girard was ranked 47th (pts/game) but he also is the type that gets more offensive zone starts than defensive ones too.

I think $5M is the right number for Giard to be honest. If he starts to produce 50-60 or more pts, then yeah, his contract is very very good. Not there yet though.

I think I just look at the Girard contract as knowing you have a good top-4 defenceman locked up through 7 years of his prime for $5M per. When you take into account that you have a key D-man signed between ages 22 and 29 that’s pretty good.

His game goes beyond points. He’s a solid defender and excellent at moving the puck in transition. His offence is what will hold him back from being truly elite imo. Girard is like a lesser version of Quinn Hughes. Similar skills, but not near the level of creativity required to take a game over.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Chalk me up to a bunch of no’s in this thread.

No to the proposed trade. The Avs have a significantly higher need for Girard than Gallagher. Once you factor in the added cost in the OP, age, contract, it’s a no brainer.

No to the Price idea. Want nothing to do with that cap hit, along with his age, injury history and cost to trade, no interest whatsoever. the comparison to the Roy trade is a non-sensical one. It’s not about comparing the two. There was no cap back in the day. Money wasn’t a concern. Now it is.
I’d far rather the Avs spend their money on a great team, and have a good goalie, rather than invest in a great goalie but only have a good team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am very offended, practically fell over. You really should be more careful of my delicate flower like sensibility. I have been crushed, just utterly crushed, I don't see how I could manage to keep on going should this thread be shut down. Please guy with Monster Energy drink quality name, please show me the way. Save a nasty nasty man like me from the perils of common sense and being able to look at any relevant stat you could possibly find. Show me the error of my ways with these vital polls

In the polls, the players talked about Price not having a team like the Lightning in front of him (like AV). They said Price's numbers don't reflect his true ability and they would prefer him in net in big games.

You don't have to agree but your narrative and reasons you provide is flawed IMO.

 

[Gurglesons]

Girard would return a much better asset than Gallagher who is admittedly a stud.

 

[Habs Halifax]

In a cap league, cap hits matter. Colorado's current goalie duo is both way cheaper and statistically better than Price. Which is why Colorado got ranked 1st on The Athletic's goalie tandem rankings (linked below), and Montreal is 28th.

Which is why I said that Colorado would have no interest in acquiring Price, even for free at $8m. We're quite happy to have a tandem playing really well, at half the cost ($5.33m) of what a tandem with Price at $8m would cost.
Bang for your buck: Ranking all 31 goalie tandems based on...

Moreover, we're not only happy in the short-term with Grubauer/Francouz, but also in the medium to long term as well as we have Justus Annunen in the pipeline who The Athletic rank as the 7th best drafted goalie prospect as per the article linked below published today.
Wheeler: The top 10 drafted NHL goalie prospects ranking,...

Now, Price might hold up nicely until he's 39, but there's absolutely no reason for Colorado to take that risk while reducing the amount of cap flexibility AND paying good assets.

I hope your 1st ranked goalie tandem works out for the Avs. I will be cheering for the Avs on the West side cause I am a huge MacKinnon fan. If the goalie tandem don't work out, hope your goalie prospect turns into something. Good luck

 

[EXTRAS]

Colorado doesn't do this trade.

 

[Meeqs]

In the polls, the players talked about Price not having a team like the Lightning in front of him (like AV). They said Price's numbers don't reflect his true ability and they would prefer him in net in big games.

You don't have to agree but your narrative and reasons you provide is flawed IMO.

Thats a good point, its not fair that you can't pay a goalie a bajillion dollars and also not have the cap space to build a team like TBL. Honestly its not fair that every goalie can't play for the best teams in the league. We really can't judge them otherwise.

I mean who wouldn't prefer a goalie 3 years removed from any non average seasons as their go to guy. Everyone knows a players real primes are from 33+, just like Tim Thomas, MTLs favorite goaltender

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I totally get and agree with you here, I just think you are missing my point.

Value to a team and player ability are 2 entirely separate things.

Just because Crosby would play on a teams 2nd line doesn't make him not a 1st line caliber center. How a team utilizes a player doesn't change their ability.

When you are correct in your assessment and can state it multiple ways and be correct then there is no reason to state things that aren't true.

I didn't state anything that is untrue. You simply didn't understand the context of what I was saying, and seem to believe that makes what I said a "falsehood".

 

[Richard88]

I hope your 1st ranked goalie tandem works out for the Avs. I will be cheering for the Avs on the West side cause I am a huge MacKinnon fan. If the goalie tandem don't work out, hope your goalie prospect turns into something. Good luck

Thanks, I hope so too. A lot can change with one playoff season though. Our goalie situation is pretty fluid still as Grubauer is an UFA in 2021 so a lot can change before then.

As for Montreal, I'll be rooting for you to get Lafreniere. Looks like a fun team that's being developed, and adding Lafreniere would be great for the fanbase who have lacked a franchise player for a very long time.

 

[Meeqs]

I didn't state anything that is untrue. You simply didn't understand the context of what I was saying, and seem to believe that makes what I said a "falsehood".

I think what you meant and what you said were 2 different things. I understand its mostly subtle nuance but I think clarity in this case is still important.

I agreed with everything you said, just that how you said it created falsehoods that I think is best to try and avoid.

Like if someone from Edm called Mackinnon a 2nd line center that would be just as silly

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I hope your 1st ranked goalie tandem works out for the Avs. I will be cheering for the Avs on the West side cause I am a huge MacKinnon fan. If the goalie tandem don't work out, hope your goalie prospect turns into something. Good luck

If our goalie tandem doesn't work out, we'll still have plenty of cap space to make changes. That seems like the much smarter path forward than hoping we get 2015 Carey Price, instead of Price from the last 3-4 years.

 

[PAZ]

Isn't Girard's contract the right AAV? He jumped to 34 pts in 70 games with 4 goals. That prorates to 40 pts and 5 goals. Pretty sure that's $5M in today's NHL moving forward? Or do you think he becomes a Rielly type and gets to 50-60 pts or more as he gets older?

Theodore, Lindholm, Slavin, Jones, McAvoy, Chychrun, Ghost all have similar cap hits. 50 guys on D had 30+ pts this past year. Girard was ranked 47th (pts/game) but he also is the type that gets more offensive zone starts than defensive ones too.

I think $5M is the right number for Giard to be honest. If he starts to produce 50-60 or more pts, then yeah, his contract is very very good. Not there yet though.

You realize almost every player you listed are also the names that pop up regularly on the 'best contracts in the NHL' threads, right?

As for the Price debate, I do believe he's better than his numbers and well respected around the league. The fact remains that even at 8M he's still overpaid considering the length of his contract, plus having an elite goaltending doesn't equal championships. Based off the best goaltenders in the league from the NHLPA (Price, Vasi, Bob, and Fleury), only one of them has cups to their name and he arguably did more harm than good in most playoff runs. You know who has cups to their name? Goalies like Niemi, Murray, Binnington, Holtby, Crawford. None of those were all-star caliber goaltenders at the time besides Holtby - they hit hot streaks or had a strong team in front of them because they didn't need to pay their goaltender 8M+.

I also find it funny how you're unwilling to part with Gallagher because he's too important to the team, but you can easily part with the best goaltender in the league? Makes sense.

 

[MaKarter]

Alright here is was I have concluded after reading the thread. We can make this trade and no one will be happy.

Landeskog for Gallagher

And
Price (2mil retained) and Drouin for Girard

 

[Habs Halifax]

You realize almost every player you listed are also the names that pop up regularly on the 'best contracts in the NHL' threads, right?

As for the Price debate, I do believe he's better than his numbers and well respected around the league. The fact remains that even at 8M he's still overpaid considering the length of his contract, plus having an elite goaltending doesn't equal championships. Based off the best goaltenders in the league from the NHLPA (Price, Vasi, Bob, and Fleury), only one of them has cups to their name and he arguably did more harm than good in most playoff runs. You know who has cups to their name? Goalies like Niemi, Murray, Binnington, Holtby, Crawford. None of those were all-star caliber goaltenders at the time besides Holtby - they hit hot streaks or had a strong team in front of them because they didn't need to pay their goaltender 8M+.

I also find it funny how you're unwilling to part with Gallagher because he's too important to the team, but you can easily part with the best goaltender in the league? Makes sense.

Buying RFA years vs UFA years. When you have overlap, you usually get the type of contract Girard got and the others I mentioned.

Gallagher is projected to be our next captain after Weber and Weber likely retires after 3 more years. His contract is designed for him to retire after his age 37 season. I would move Price cause we are wasting away his talent and he deserves at shot at a cup. Gallagher is still only 28 and he can be a leader for our younger group.

Am I desperate to move Price? No. Most of the comments you have seen is value defense

 

[Spilot23]

Never been a better time to find a bargain goalie. Too bad you already have Francouz and Grubauer under contracts for next season. Lets see how they do in this playoffs. I think this is a fluid situation with the Avs in net. If you are held back because of your goalie, I think the narrative changes overnight. Might not target Price (even at $8M) but Sakic is not going to just sit back and go with the bargain goalie year after year and waste prime years of MacKinnon.

I think Price is a victim of the team he plays with. Bergevin has not found a #1C in 8 years now. Jumping on Price's back cause of failed team accomplishments is foolish IMO. And in the players poll, they actually talked about that

Price at $8M isn't a bargain for his recent play that's more of an anchor contract to me. Habs overpaid for their goalie and now it's starting to hit them.

It's hard for you to find a #1C or surround your team with better players because of Price's contract. That's what I don't want for my team. We have our core players to sign very soon I would prefer to keep what we have than lose players like Girard, Burakovsky and probably some depth players because we trade for Price and have to fit his salary. I can't find any team that have won a cup with goalie that cost over 7M$ that's why I don't find him a necessary more of a luxury where we HOPE he can get his old form back. From a soon contender team where his best player is signed on one of the best contract in the league right now if not the best, that's massive gamble where the odds are against you.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If our goalie tandem doesn't work out, we'll still have plenty of cap space to make changes. That seems like the much smarter path forward than hoping we get 2015 Carey Price, instead of Price from the last 3-4 years.

Price at $8M plus $1M back-up = $9M.

I'll be paying attention if your $5.3M cap hits for the goalies goes up in the next few seasons. Right now, a $3.7M difference. Something to watch and evaluate in the next 5 years. Spin it anyway possible... most teams are well above the $5.3M mark for two goalies.

Like you said, if the goalie tandem don't work, you are still stuck with them for one more year and what you going to try next? A tandem that = $7M?

 

[Spilot23]

Thanks, I hope so too. A lot can change with one playoff season though. Our goalie situation is pretty fluid still as Grubauer is an UFA in 2021 so a lot can change before then.

As for Montreal, I'll be rooting for you to get Lafreniere. Looks like a fun team that's being developed, and adding Lafreniere would be great for the fanbase who have lacked a franchise player for a very long time.

I also hope they get Lafreniere. My father wouldn't stop calling me and saying that they're winning the cup this year As someone that lives in Quebec I would god damn buy tickets for a meeting between Habs/Avs even if it cost alot for one game in MTL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Price at $8M isn't a bargain for his recent play that's more of an anchor contract to me. Habs overpaid for their goalie and now it's starting to hit them.

It's hard for you to find a #1C or surround your team with better players because of Price's contract. That's what I don't want for my team. We have our core players to sign very soon I would prefer to keep what we have than lose players like Girard, Burakovsky and probably some depth players because we trade for Price and have to fit his salary. I can't find any team that have won a cup with goalie that cost over 7M$ that's why I don't find him a necessary more of a luxury where we HOPE he can get his old form back. From a soon contender team where his best player is signed on one of the best contract in the league right now if not the best, that's massive gamble where the odds are against you.

You can consider it an anchor if you want. But his recent play? Like I said, I value the NHLPA response to that more than a fan on HF boards. Bergevin did overpay by $1M - $2M range. Is it hurting us? No, not yet.

I bet you in 2-4 years, both your goalies will come close to $9M. Bookmark it. Price at $10.5M is overinflated and a concern if you are a contender. Price at $8M is a different story. Otherwise, one of the best GM's in the game would have let AV walk in Tampa. And I know the age range is different.

Bet you the Blues don't let Binnington walk. He will be 28 when he stars his next contract. Bet you the Leafs prefer not to let Anderson walk. Same with Fleury with the Knights.

If you think $5.3M for both goalies gets the job done. All the power to you if you can pull that off.