Proposal: COL/MTL: S. Girard for B. Gallagher?

[PAZ]

Buying RFA years vs UFA years. When you have overlap, you usually get the type of contract Girard got and the others I mentioned.

Gallagher is projected to be our next captain after Weber and Weber likely retires after 3 more years. His contract is designed for him to retire after his age 37 season. I would move Price cause we are wasting away his talent and he deserves at shot at a cup. Gallagher is still only 28 and he can be a leader for our younger group.

Am I desperate to move Price? No. Most of the comments you have seen is value defense

It doesn't matter whether it's RFA or UFA years or how it came to be, we're talking about the player's contract value. A #1-2 defenseman making ~$5 mil a year for the foreseeable future in their prime is insanely valuable.

Still doesn't make sense to me - are you also not wasting Gallagher's talents, does he not deserve a shot at the cup? Price can also be a leader for the younger group. The fact remains that Price has an albatross contract, and even with retention no team has won a cup paying a goaltender that much since the salary cap was implemented.

What we do see is teams winning the cup with average/slightly-above average goaltenders on a yearly basis.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

No one is touching that Carey Price contract, even with retention.

I wouldn’t sign Price to the deal he’s on, let alone give up assets to have that contract cripple our cap structure.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It doesn't matter whether it's RFA or UFA years or how it came to be, we're talking about the player's contract value. A #1-2 defenseman making ~$5 mil a year for the foreseeable future in their prime is insanely valuable.

Still doesn't make sense to me - are you also not wasting Gallagher's talents, does he not deserve a shot at the cup? Price can also be a leader for the younger group. The fact remains that Price has an albatross contract, and even with retention no team has won a cup paying a goaltender that much since the salary cap was implemented.

What we do see is teams winning the cup with average/slightly-above average goaltenders on a yearly basis.

RFA/UFA does matter. Girard will become a very good contract if he produces more. If he stays at 40 pts and 5 goals, it's close to being the right number IMO.

 

[Techcoockie]

This is a horrible trade for the Avs, can't tell if you're an Avs fan or not because Montreal would take that and run - and the last thing they need is another undersized defender.

are we.... ? Do you know Gallagher.... ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thanks, I hope so too. A lot can change with one playoff season though. Our goalie situation is pretty fluid still as Grubauer is an UFA in 2021 so a lot can change before then.

As for Montreal, I'll be rooting for you to get Lafreniere. Looks like a fun team that's being developed, and adding Lafreniere would be great for the fanbase who have lacked a franchise player for a very long time.

Avs are a contender with cap space and a good prospect pool. It's the best situation in the NHL today. Lets see how your goalies do in this playoffs cause that's the only question mark IMO. Could use some secondary scoring but Newhook is coming soon.

Montreal has not picked #1 OA in decades. Lafreniere in Montreal is a dream but I can only imagine the pressure our fan base and media put on him. Seems like the type that can handle it with play on the ice. We will see. 12.5% chance is decent.

 

[Spilot23]

You can consider it an anchor if you want. But his recent play? Like I said, I value the NHLPA response to that more than a fan on HF boards. Bergevin did overpay by $1M - $2M range. Is it hurting us? No, not yet.

I bet you in 2 or 3 years, both your goalies will come close to $9M. Bookmark it

I guess it's fine you can keep the best goalie then. We will worry with our core and salary cap structure.

I bet you Sakic will trade or let one of them go before paying $9M for that tandem. By that time we will hope that Annunen can become our backup and future #1 goalie. I will be fine with that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I guess it's fine you can keep the best goalie then. We will worry with our core and salary cap structure.

I bet you Sakic will trade or let one of them go before paying $9M for that tandem. By that time we will hope that Annunen can become our backup and future #1 goalie. I will be fine with that.

I'm not saying the same guys will end up making $9M. I'm saying Sakic signs someone or trades for someone in that 2-4 year span and both goalies are close to $7M ish

 

[GAGLine]

NHLPA's opinion > Meeqs

An actual argument > Appeal to authority

Price isn't the best goalie in the league and even at 8 mil, isn't worth his contract.

 

[Habs Halifax]

An actual argument > Appeal to authority

Price isn't the best goalie in the league and even at 8 mil, isn't worth his contract.

At $8M, Price is absolutely worth his contract. At $10.5M, it's questionable for sure. Only $2.5M in difference but with goalies, it matters. Price is still one of the best. And for the record, I never considered him the undisputed best. But you are out to lunch if you think Price is not worth $8M. You likely are blaming him for team failure. Even the NHLPA talked about his numbers and they still said he is their guy

 

[PAZ]

RFA/UFA does matter. Girard will become a very good contract if he produces more. If he stays at 40 pts and 5 goals, it's close to being the right number IMO.

It doesn't when all we're talking about a) player's production/impact on ice b) value of the contract. Mackinnon has arguably the best contract in the league, it doesn't matter if it came as a RFA. All of the best contracts are basically from when the player is a RFA, it doesn't make it any less valuable.

Also, we can see what Girard's value would be if he was a free agent based on what Spurgeon got - a 7 x 7.75 mil contract that takes him till he's 37. I get what you're saying he got close to the right number based off being a RFA and previous production, that's why his agent agreed to it. But in comparison to most other contract's it's a steal.

It would've been easy for Sakic to give him a bridge for 2-3 years, but at the end of the bridge we'd be paying Girard 6.5-7 mil to eat up UFA years.

 

[GAGLine]

At $8M, Price is absolutely worth his contract. At $10.5M, it's questionable for sure. Only $2.5M in difference but with goalies, it matters. Price is still one of the best. And for the record, I never considered him the undisputed best.

Then why are Habs fans always offering him in trade?

 

[Spilot23]

I'm not saying the same guys will end up making $9M. I'm saying Sakic signs someone or trades for someone in that 2-4 year span and both goalies are close to $7M ish

I got that and that's why I think Sakic won't be paying 9M$ for both goalies. Annunen will probably be coming soon by that time I think management will have to decide between Grubs and Francouz.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It doesn't when all we're talking about a) player's production/impact on ice b) value of the contract. Mackinnon has arguably the best contract in the league, it doesn't matter if it came as a RFA. All of the best contracts are basically from when the player is a RFA, it doesn't make it any less valuable.

Also, we can see what Girard's value would be if he was a free agent based on what Spurgeon got - a 7 x 7.75 mil contract that takes him till he's 37. I get what you're saying he got close to the right number based off being a RFA and previous production, that's why his agent agreed to it. But in comparison to most other contract's it's a steal.

At the moment, it's fair value. In comparison to other contracts, it looks good. Hard to compare full UFA contracts vs some RFA/UFA contracts IMO. But like I said, if Girard jumps again next year to 50-60 or more points. It becomes a real steal. But if he stays close to 40 pts and 5 goals. It's fair or slight value edge to the Avs.

We are talking about Girard's jump in production for one season and expecting it to be at least 40 pts and 5 goals with no consideration he has seasons below that. I've fell into that trap many times before and up/down direction is possible for almost every player

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Then why are Habs fans always offering him in trade?

This is my thing too.

Why is Price always up for grabs if he’s so valuable, but Gallagher can’t go anywhere?

Price is a solid goalie, but it’s not just about the fact that he has a huge cap hit, it’s the term. Typically players don’t get better as they push into their mid and late 30’s.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I got that and that's why I think Sakic won't be paying 9M$ for both goalies. Annunen will probably be coming soon by that time I think management will have to decide between Grubs and Francouz.

He might let both of them go if he feels that he needs someone better. What they do in this playoffs and next season will give him a picture

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is my thing too.

Why is Price always up for grabs if he’s so valuable, but Gallagher can’t go anywhere?

Price is a solid goalie, but it’s not just about the fact that he has a huge cap hit, it’s the term. Typically players done get better as they push into their mid and late 30’s.

Because Price won't win a cup in Montreal and we would prefer him to win one with the Avs while we get some assets to help accelerate our rebuild. But we are not going to retain and also take $0.5 on the dollar in trade value. We will keep him.

Honestly, the time to move Price might be when Covid-19 is in the past and the cap rises significantly with new US TV deal and Seattle revenue. Price for starting goalies is not going to be $5M - $7M forever.

I also expect the Habs D to improve as our centers mature and some of our kids on D also mature. Price can only do so much with a team like we have.

 

[AvsCOL]

Isn't Girard's contract the right AAV? He jumped to 34 pts in 70 games with 4 goals. That prorates to 40 pts and 5 goals. Pretty sure that's $5M in today's NHL moving forward? Or do you think he becomes a Rielly type and gets to 50-60 pts or more as he gets older?

Theodore, Lindholm, Slavin, Jones, McAvoy, Chychrun, Ghost all have similar cap hits. 50 guys on D had 30+ pts this past year. Girard was ranked 47th (pts/game) but he also is the type that gets more offensive zone starts than defensive ones too.

I think $5M is the right number for Giard to be honest. If he starts to produce 50-60 or more pts, then yeah, his contract is very very good. Not there yet though.

I think if he had the opportunities, that he could score 50+, but the fact is that he probably won't. Makar runs the top PP, and Byram will most likely run the PP2, so that leaves Girard getting most of his opportunities at 5v5. His shot is admittedly his worst attribute, so he's never going to be a 50-point defenseman without significant powerplay time, but I still think $5mil is a steal for what he provides. He fits that fast transition game that COL plays, and creates a ton of space for his team mates. You could say points-wise, maybe he isn't a steal, but he does much more than that.

 

[Spilot23]

He might let both of them go if he feels that he needs someone better. What they do in this playoffs and next season will give him a picture

That’s a big if from what we’ve seen from Grubs so far in the playoffs. Unless a massive choke job coming from both of our goalies that’s already a big if even then I doubt Sakic will be looking for an option where he has to break his core and fit the salary that would come with the said goalie. He has been deadly patient so far and always been paying off to do so.

 

[Meeqs]

Then why are Habs fans always offering him in trade?

Because the 2 goalies the Avs have who have out performed Price over the past few years could magically become terrible for whatever reason, and even though Price hasn't been above average in 3 years and is one of the most untradeable players in the NHL, some hockey players said something nice about him in a random poll so none of that matters.

 

[1909]

I like Girard a lot but I would prefer Graves. Habs have enough pint-size players.

Domi for Graves ????

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think if he had the opportunities, that he could score 50+, but the fact is that he probably won't. Makar runs the top PP, and Byram will most likely run the PP2, so that leaves Girard getting most of his opportunities at 5v5. His shot is admittedly his worst attribute, so he's never going to be a 50-point defenseman without significant powerplay time, but I still think $5mil is a steal for what he provides. He fits that fast transition game that COL plays, and creates a ton of space for his team mates. You could say points-wise, maybe he isn't a steal, but he does much more than that.

Great puck mover but the zone starts indicate your coach prefers him starting on the offensive side. Who does he typically play with? Not so sure he's a beast or great neutralizer in his own end. His value is puck moving and providing offense. That's how I see it anyways. I'd keep Zadorov and play him at RD on the 2nd pairing. I think Girard needs someone physical to play with as a partner. 5'-10", 170 lbs is very light for a D man.

Might be a Ghost type. 40-50 pts and sometimes busts out to 60+ depending on PP time and opportunities. His contract is $500k more than Ghost

 

[Habs Halifax]

Because the 2 goalies the Avs have who have out performed Price over the past few years could magically become terrible for whatever reason, and even though Price hasn't been above average in 3 years and is one of the most untradeable players in the NHL, some hockey players said something nice about him in a random poll so none of that matters.

Pretty sure Price on the Avs and your 2 goalies on the Habs would result in different individual and team stats.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Great puck mover but the zone starts indicate your coach prefers him starting on the offensive side. Who does he typically play with? Not so sure he's a beast or great neutralizer in his own end. His value is puck moving and providing offense. That's how I see it anyways. I'd keep Zadorov and play him at RD on the 2nd pairing. I think Girard needs someone physical to play with as a partner. 5'-10", 170 lbs is very light for a D man.

Might be a Ghost type. 40-50 pts and sometimes busts out to 60+ depending on PP time and opportunities. His contract is $500k more than Ghost

You’re just kind of off in your evaluation of Girard.

He’ll have ups and downs as he grows as a player, but this year he was a very reliable D-man shift-to-shift. He doesn’t make a lot of mistakes honestly.

But, I don’t think he’ll ever have elite offence. His value lies in the consistency of his outlet passing, skating the puck out of trouble, gap control, stuff like that.

 

[Eegs]

I like Girard a lot but I would prefer Graves. Habs have enough pint-size players.

Domi for Graves ????

No thank you.

You're selling low on Domi, and buying high (imo) on Graves.

 

[Flyer lurker]

IF Colorado really thought they needed a goalie (debatable) then you go out and sign Markstrom, Lehner, Holtby, etc for 3-4 years. You do not give up the assets Montreal fan wants at even 8m for Price. The last thing you do is trade for goalies and hope they are good at 38 when they are showing slippage at 32.