Foxtail
Registered User
Definitely looking for a forward as well. Offers are or will be pitched to Varly and Panarin. Whether we get either is the the question. Exciting knowing we are a team in the mix at least
Confirmed with Link: [COL / AZ] Soderberg for Connauton & 3rd Round Pick
- Thread starter RockLobster
- Start date
Tralfamadore
Don't Panic.
- Sep 25, 2011
- 8,715
- 7,392
Not trying to fear monger here but this trade is a little worrisome if there isn't anything else coming. In my opinion as of now the Avs are a worse team come opening night. No 2C and two aging, big minute eating dman coming off of surgeries, one of which sounds quite major. The addition of Makar is nice but right now, until something else happens, there's a net loss of talent.
How early would you consider too early to panic? I mean, FA hasn't even started yet.
MarkT
Heretic
- Nov 11, 2017
- 3,997
- 4,513
I'll miss Carl, but I think this move makes a lot of sense.
A lot of people think this is either a) a cap dump or b) a move to free up room on the roster.
Here's what I think happened. Sakic, the class act that he is, sat down with Carl and told him that next season he'd likely be the 4C. This is because the organisation sees Jost/Compher/Kerfoot ahead of him at center and may also bring in another center. Soderberg understandably doesn't want to play 4C in a contract year, so he asked to be moved somewhere he could play higher in the lineup. Arizona isn't exactly stacked with forward depth, so that's a good fit for him.
And the return is pretty darn good for a soon-to-be 34 year old who showed signs of decline at the end of last season.
A lot of people think this is either a) a cap dump or b) a move to free up room on the roster.
Here's what I think happened. Sakic, the class act that he is, sat down with Carl and told him that next season he'd likely be the 4C. This is because the organisation sees Jost/Compher/Kerfoot ahead of him at center and may also bring in another center. Soderberg understandably doesn't want to play 4C in a contract year, so he asked to be moved somewhere he could play higher in the lineup. Arizona isn't exactly stacked with forward depth, so that's a good fit for him.
And the return is pretty darn good for a soon-to-be 34 year old who showed signs of decline at the end of last season.
flyfysher
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2012
- 6,541
- 5,167
Tralfamadore
Don't Panic.
- Sep 25, 2011
- 8,715
- 7,392
Patagonia
Keep Whining
- Jan 6, 2017
- 7,624
- 3,246
I'm not happy with the return, but it makes plenty of sense.
Soda could play anywhere from 2C to 4C, with looming UFA this is a huge risk if a final contract deal. His play last season was erratic, extremely strong early and faded late/playoffs. You realistically can't determine a value. With a slightly overpaid contract, moving him before the season better prepares the players and coaches on roles. There is also more opportunity for youngsters for the C position.
This trade is ming boggling stupid if a replacement doesn't come in.
Just heard Dater speculating on why this happened and a few others on twitter.
Wanted to give the chance to Jost and Compher? That would be fine if either of the two actually beat out Soda last year, but he was better than both.
Wanted to out of his final year on the contract? Ok, but why? He is our 2nd best centre untill Jost/Compher has proven otherwise
Clear cap space? We had 35M and now we have 38M. Are we really gonna add close to 40M to our payroll these next few weeks? No, his salary wasn't in the way for anyone else.
These reasons spitted out really makes zero sense. We are supposed to try to win now, and we sent away a good "rental" for us for a 3rd rounder. We are a worse team than yesterday.
Just heard Dater speculating on why this happened and a few others on twitter.
Wanted to give the chance to Jost and Compher? That would be fine if either of the two actually beat out Soda last year, but he was better than both.
Wanted to out of his final year on the contract? Ok, but why? He is our 2nd best centre untill Jost/Compher has proven otherwise
Clear cap space? We had 35M and now we have 38M. Are we really gonna add close to 40M to our payroll these next few weeks? No, his salary wasn't in the way for anyone else.
These reasons spitted out really makes zero sense. We are supposed to try to win now, and we sent away a good "rental" for us for a 3rd rounder. We are a worse team than yesterday.
flyfysher
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2012
- 6,541
- 5,167
Wait until the major moves are made in FA before deciding which of our current youngsters, if any, will be given the C position. I've been waiting a long time to see what Sakic's vision is. He's emphasized patience, youth, speed and skill and eschewed high priced FA until now. He's been unwilling to spend big on top FA instead electing for grittier bottom 6 fill ins until now. We're no longer looking to the waiver wire. It's clear this is the time to make a move until the rest of our developing draftees join the club. Value wise, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sakic make a big play with Panarin over having to commit himself to an unpalatable term with an older FA.
Patagonia
Keep Whining
- Jan 6, 2017
- 7,624
- 3,246
AVs are a worse team after the Soda trade, but a much better future since the Draft.
Hockey season begins Oct 02nd, so there is still 4 months remaining to fill roles. Teams near or over the Cap would also need to clear salaries as the new Cap Limit is lower than forecasted. Players ie. Subban will become available at much lower values than previous years.
Sakic is being very strategic and looking to catch Salary Dumps with the massive available Cap Space.
Unless Sakic spends up to the max or during a meeting Soda didn't like his place on the team next season, this move makes no sense.
Initially I wanted to say I was fine with it because I was excited about future moves, but the more I think about it the less it makes sense. Some of the arguments is that Sakic wanted to give Jost/Compher/Kam a chance and clear up a spot. If he's hell-bent on giving them a chance at center, shift Soda to the wing so it gives us some security. Bottom 6 could easily be something like:
Soda - Compher - Nieto
Calvert - Kam - X
Initially I wanted to say I was fine with it because I was excited about future moves, but the more I think about it the less it makes sense. Some of the arguments is that Sakic wanted to give Jost/Compher/Kam a chance and clear up a spot. If he's hell-bent on giving them a chance at center, shift Soda to the wing so it gives us some security. Bottom 6 could easily be something like:
Soda - Compher - Nieto
Calvert - Kam - X
Patagonia
Keep Whining
- Jan 6, 2017
- 7,624
- 3,246
Still plenty of time to make moves, worry about the Soda trade if nothing is done when the season begins.
I did not freak out when the trade occurred because I was expecting another trade within minutes. Why move Soda if we haven't got a replacement lined up? There are almost no C's on free agency and all forwards we have been linked with are wingers.
Yes, I hope we bring in a replacement, soon. But a very risky game to move a good player before you got his replacement in.
I can't figure out why we sent away our 2nd best centre who was our 4th most used forward and 4th most productive forward last season, when he only had one year left on his contract, and we are trying to win now, and we are even close to needing the cap space it gives for a 3rd round draft pick.
MINUTES? Seriously? I agree that it's a bad move if it really was about giving Jost and Compher more minutes. But everything Sakic said about that would still be true if he was confident he could acquire a second line center. I think it's possible he's got a couple of different offers he's weighing, waiting for some other chips to fall. I don't see any reason to freak out unless there are no moves made AT LEAST a couple of weeks after free agency begins, and that's only for the really high strung. They have until the season starts.
Patagonia
Keep Whining
- Jan 6, 2017
- 7,624
- 3,246
It was mentioned in another thread about Signing Bonuses paid July 01st.
Moving Soda early not only clears his salary, but eliminates the uncertainty with other teams needing to pay bonuses. AVs are positioned to make trades before and after bonuses are paid. Lots more options with the greater Cap Space to take any player that needs to be unloaded for cap reasons.
Ya, you know, they had made a trade for Stastny or someone else and decided to dump Soda. And the second trade happened to be the one announced first. But that clearly wasn't the case now.
Like I said, it's a big gamble if they are just expecting find a better replacement in the upcoming weeks. And they are putting unnecessary pressure on themselves to get it done before the season starts. I am honestly starting to think they are honest about just "giving" the spot to the younger players. Which would have made sense if we were in a rebuilding stage, but we are not so..
The difference between 35m of cap space or 38M is insignificant. We are not spending to the cap this summer.
I give my honest opinion. I guess I'm different from the average fan that way. I don't decide how to feel about something in order to feel better.
And unless we already have a deal in place for a replacement or are extremely confident on getting one, this move makes literally zero sense and the arguments for it making sense doesn't hold up even slightest for various reasons.
Hennessy
Ye Jacobites, by name
Advice from a drunk: shut up and let it play out. Then yell.
John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
- Nov 29, 2018
- 10,983
- 6,789
I'm extremely worried that the Avs will only have 13 players on their roster for the first game.
The Kingslayer
Registered User
- Apr 25, 2006
- 49,577
- 52,766
CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster
FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Mikko Rantanen ($10,000,000) - Micheal Ferland ($3,500,000) - Matt Calvert ($2,850,000) - Martin Kaut ($894,167)
Centre: Nathan MacKinnon ($6,300,000) - Tyson Jost ($885,833) - J.T. Compher ($3,000,000) - Alexander Kerfoot ($3,500,000) - Shane Bowers ($925,000)
Left wing: Artemi Panarin ($12,000,000) - Gabriel Landeskog ($5,571,429) - Matt Nieto ($1,975,000) - Vladislav Kamenev ($1,000,000)
DEFENSE (7)
Right: Tyson Barrie ($5,500,000) - Erik Johnson ($6,000,000) - Cale Makar ($880,833) - Ryan Graves ($800,000)
Left: Ian Cole ($4,250,000) - Samuel Girard ($728,333) - Nikita Zadorov ($3,500,000)
GOALTENDER (2)
Philipp Grubauer ($3,333,333) - Pavel Francouz ($950,000)
AHL BURIED (2)
Mark Barberio ($375,000) - Kevin Connauton ($300,000)
BUYOUTS (1)
Brooks Orpik ($1,500,000)
DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $80,518,928
Cap Space: $981,072
This is with one big signing, one smallish one, and our RFAs...all at prices at or below what I have seen speculated. Still have one roster spot to fill, and under a million to do so. Tell me again how we are swimming in cap space? The following year, with no cap raise, we would have $13.2M to sign Barrie, Jost, Girard, Francouz, and Neito (and still be at 22 on the roster). I would hope that Sakic can do better on each of these contracts, as a little bit here and there adds up....but I would not count on it.
Yes, if we sign nobody, we would have a fair bit of cap space that could be used to earn perks from strapped teams. And it is even likely that we cannot sign any UFAs given that if someone wants to play on the beach, we don't have much of a shot at signing them....nothing we can do short of throwing WAY too much money at them.
Link: Minimalist - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Oh, I also wanted to point out that the difference in taxes for each team is not as horrendous as some make it out to be. A lot of the differences can be mitigated based on residency, signing bonuses, and the like. Plus the standard crap that rich folks use to get out of paying the advertised rates (hell, even middle class folks use a lot of them...I certainly do).
FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Mikko Rantanen ($10,000,000) - Micheal Ferland ($3,500,000) - Matt Calvert ($2,850,000) - Martin Kaut ($894,167)
Centre: Nathan MacKinnon ($6,300,000) - Tyson Jost ($885,833) - J.T. Compher ($3,000,000) - Alexander Kerfoot ($3,500,000) - Shane Bowers ($925,000)
Left wing: Artemi Panarin ($12,000,000) - Gabriel Landeskog ($5,571,429) - Matt Nieto ($1,975,000) - Vladislav Kamenev ($1,000,000)
DEFENSE (7)
Right: Tyson Barrie ($5,500,000) - Erik Johnson ($6,000,000) - Cale Makar ($880,833) - Ryan Graves ($800,000)
Left: Ian Cole ($4,250,000) - Samuel Girard ($728,333) - Nikita Zadorov ($3,500,000)
GOALTENDER (2)
Philipp Grubauer ($3,333,333) - Pavel Francouz ($950,000)
AHL BURIED (2)
Mark Barberio ($375,000) - Kevin Connauton ($300,000)
BUYOUTS (1)
Brooks Orpik ($1,500,000)
DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $80,518,928
Cap Space: $981,072
This is with one big signing, one smallish one, and our RFAs...all at prices at or below what I have seen speculated. Still have one roster spot to fill, and under a million to do so. Tell me again how we are swimming in cap space? The following year, with no cap raise, we would have $13.2M to sign Barrie, Jost, Girard, Francouz, and Neito (and still be at 22 on the roster). I would hope that Sakic can do better on each of these contracts, as a little bit here and there adds up....but I would not count on it.
Yes, if we sign nobody, we would have a fair bit of cap space that could be used to earn perks from strapped teams. And it is even likely that we cannot sign any UFAs given that if someone wants to play on the beach, we don't have much of a shot at signing them....nothing we can do short of throwing WAY too much money at them.
Link: Minimalist - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Oh, I also wanted to point out that the difference in taxes for each team is not as horrendous as some make it out to be. A lot of the differences can be mitigated based on residency, signing bonuses, and the like. Plus the standard crap that rich folks use to get out of paying the advertised rates (hell, even middle class folks use a lot of them...I certainly do).
