Confirmed with Link: [COL / AZ] Soderberg for Connauton & 3rd Round Pick

[Muffin]

I don't want to see the same people *****ing about the trade complaining when Barrie walks for free next off season.

 

[Pokecheque]

First of all there is still lots of time to unload him before the start of the season. Second we could do a lot worst than Kerfoot on this team.

You'd never know that the way some people talk about him on here...

 

[The Abusement Park]

You'd never know that the way some people talk about him on here...

I’m not a huge fan of Kerfoot but I think we could get by with him on the 2nd line as long as we get at least one more top 6’er. But I will not be ok with him playing with Mack next year. That was painful to watch especially in the playoffs.

 

[Tralfamadore]

You'd never know that the way some people talk about him on here...

He manages to produce but honestly he's worse than his numbers suggest.

 

[Foppberg]

If we ever start to fill out the 2nd line with better talent I just don't see where he fits in. Not the 1st line, wouldn't be the 2nd, maybe the 3rd. He's our new smaller Hawvad educated PAP.

 

[klozge]

I’m not a huge fan of Kerfoot but I think we could get by with him on the 2nd line as long as we get at least one more top 6’er. But I will not be ok with him playing with Mack next year. That was painful to watch especially in the playoffs.

I really don't want to see Kerfoot on the 2nd line ever again. Let's just trade him, please.

 

[Pokecheque]

He manages to produce but honestly he's worse than his numbers suggest.

What numbers are those? His underlying numbers that I've seen say he's quite good. Everyone knew he wouldn't produce at the rate he did his rookie season. Not gonna say he was stellar, but he wasn't a horrible player either.

But again, some people on here are treating him like he's radioactive. He has a role to play and he plays it well, it's up to the Avs to add more depth so he doesn't have to play too far up in the lineup. If he does so again, that's not on him, that's on Sakic and the organization. Conversely, if he gets dealt and they fill the depth chart with a better player, I won't complain.

 

[Tralfamadore]

What numbers are those? His underlying numbers that I've seen say he's quite good. Everyone knew he wouldn't produce at the rate he did his rookie season. Not gonna say he was stellar, but he wasn't a horrible player either.

But again, some people on here are treating him like he's radioactive. He has a role to play and he plays it well, it's up to the Avs to add more depth so he doesn't have to play too far up in the lineup. If he does so again, that's not on him, that's on Sakic and the organization. Conversely, if he gets dealt and they fill the depth chart with a better player, I won't complain.

My point was that his numbers are decent but watching him on the ice was quite rough much of the time last season.

 

[Balthazar]

What numbers are those? His underlying numbers that I've seen say he's quite good. Everyone knew he wouldn't produce at the rate he did his rookie season. Not gonna say he was stellar, but he wasn't a horrible player either.

But again, some people on here are treating him like he's radioactive. He has a role to play and he plays it well, it's up to the Avs to add more depth so he doesn't have to play too far up in the lineup. If he does so again, that's not on him, that's on Sakic and the organization. Conversely, if he gets dealt and they fill the depth chart with a better player, I won't complain.

You'd have a case to say he's the worst 40+ pts forward in the league. Can't win a board battle, not good defensively, can't produce with top players, not big enough to be physical, can't shoot the puck to save his life, is the complete opposite of being a clutch player. So yeah.

 

[Pokecheque]

You'd have a case to say he's the worst 40+ pts forward in the league.

I don't even know what the hell that means.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

You'd have a case to say he's the worst 40+ pts forward in the league. Can't win a board battle, not good defensively, can't produce with top players, not big enough to be physical, can't shoot the puck to save his life, is the complete opposite of being a clutch player. So yeah.

I soured on him a bit in the playoffs. I wouldn’t mind if he comes back, but i’d like it be below the 3 million mark. I don’t know if that’s going to happen though.

 

[MarkT]

What numbers are those? His underlying numbers that I've seen say he's quite good. .

For what it's worth, when I ran the numbers for the past two seasons (I used things like Corsi, Fenwick, Expected goals, scoring chances, etc.. as well as more traditional stats) he averaged out as a 4th liner, which is crazy given his points totals. Now, my system isn't perfect (it overvalues guys with low sample sizes), but it matches pretty well with my eye tests of teams I know well.

 

[McMetal]

At this point, I'm convinced this move is about weaponizing cap space to take on a Clarkson type contract in a trade for a top sixer. Nothing else makes sense, even after signing our RFAs and a UFA forward there's too much room for dumping Soda to make any sense unless he plans to take on a bad contract.

 

[Balthazar]

At this point, I'm convinced this move is about weaponizing cap space to take on a Clarkson type contract in a trade for a top sixer. Nothing else makes sense, even after signing our RFAs and a UFA forward there's too much room for dumping Soda to make any sense unless he plans to take on a bad contract.

Unless there's an internal cap set by ownership, it doesn't even make sense to move Soda for additional cap room. We already had tons of room for bad contracts and Soda's contract was only one more year.

Cap space can't be the reason for this trade.

 

[flyfysher]

For what it's worth, when I ran the numbers for the past two seasons (I used things like Corsi, Fenwick, Expected goals, scoring chances, etc.. as well as more traditional stats) he averaged out as a 4th liner, which is crazy given his points totals. Now, my system isn't perfect (it overvalues guys with low sample sizes), but it matches pretty well with my eye tests of teams I know well.

That's just it. Kerfoot doesn't really slot as a fourth-liner and he's an awkward fit on the third, incapable as the C on the second and ineffectual on the first.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

It’s about, to go, down

 

[henchman21]

It’s about, to go, down

Missed opportunity to put down #insider

 

[Pokecheque]

For what it's worth, when I ran the numbers for the past two seasons (I used things like Corsi, Fenwick, Expected goals, scoring chances, etc.. as well as more traditional stats) he averaged out as a 4th liner, which is crazy given his points totals. Now, my system isn't perfect (it overvalues guys with low sample sizes), but it matches pretty well with my eye tests of teams I know well.

I think you're more or less right, I don't think he is much more than a 3rd/4th line utility guy, and that's basically what I've been arguing, but he does have above-average passing ability, near-elite speed, and whenever he does decide to shoot, somehow gets a percentage-driven boost. I think even this season his shooting % was still inflated a bit. I still think on a good team, he could slot into a scoring line wing role, but he shouldn't be expected to drive the play.

I've said before if you put the proper depth in front of him, the complaints about him would largely dry up. Most of the problem is that way, way too much has been asked of him. I get the frustration with him, I just don't get the over-the-top hate some on here have for him. The hyperbole that gets spewed about him is misguided at best, irrational and asinine at worst.

 

[Metallo]

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster
FORWARDS (13)
Right wing: Mikko Rantanen ($10,000,000) - Micheal Ferland ($3,500,000) - Matt Calvert ($2,850,000) - Martin Kaut ($894,167)
Centre: Nathan MacKinnon ($6,300,000) - Tyson Jost ($885,833) - J.T. Compher ($3,000,000) - Alexander Kerfoot ($3,500,000) - Shane Bowers ($925,000)
Left wing: Artemi Panarin ($12,000,000) - Gabriel Landeskog ($5,571,429) - Matt Nieto ($1,975,000) - Vladislav Kamenev ($1,000,000)
DEFENSE (7)
Right: Tyson Barrie ($5,500,000) - Erik Johnson ($6,000,000) - Cale Makar ($880,833) - Ryan Graves ($800,000)
Left: Ian Cole ($4,250,000) - Samuel Girard ($728,333) - Nikita Zadorov ($3,500,000)
GOALTENDER (2)
Philipp Grubauer ($3,333,333) - Pavel Francouz ($950,000)
AHL BURIED (2)
Mark Barberio ($375,000) - Kevin Connauton ($300,000)
BUYOUTS (1)
Brooks Orpik ($1,500,000)
DETAILS
Roster Size: 22
Salary Cap: $81,500,000
Cap Hit: $80,518,928
Cap Space: $981,072

This is with one big signing, one smallish one, and our RFAs...all at prices at or below what I have seen speculated. Still have one roster spot to fill, and under a million to do so. Tell me again how we are swimming in cap space? The following year, with no cap raise, we would have $13.2M to sign Barrie, Jost, Girard, Francouz, and Neito (and still be at 22 on the roster). I would hope that Sakic can do better on each of these contracts, as a little bit here and there adds up....but I would not count on it.

Yes, if we sign nobody, we would have a fair bit of cap space that could be used to earn perks from strapped teams. And it is even likely that we cannot sign any UFAs given that if someone wants to play on the beach, we don't have much of a shot at signing them....nothing we can do short of throwing WAY too much money at them.

Link: Minimalist - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Oh, I also wanted to point out that the difference in taxes for each team is not as horrendous as some make it out to be. A lot of the differences can be mitigated based on residency, signing bonuses, and the like. Plus the standard crap that rich folks use to get out of paying the advertised rates (hell, even middle class folks use a lot of them...I certainly do).

Interesting exercise showing that cap space could disapear quickly. It explains the Soda trade somewhat. However with that scenario unfolding I would have traded Kerfoot instead of Soda.

 

[Foppa2118]

That's just it. Kerfoot doesn't really slot as a fourth-liner and he's an awkward fit on the third, incapable as the C on the second and ineffectual on the first.

You forgot insipid on the wing.

Kerfoot is a fairly one dimensional playmaking tweener center, who struggles when the games get physical, and is more suited to an offensive 3rd line. If you need some regular season production he can help you with that, but not much more.

He's Tyler Arnason with better work ethic, but his size negates some of that work ethic, so his effectiveness is similar, and you similarly have a hard time building a lineup around him. You don't want to rely on him for scoring in a 2nd line role, but you'll always want a more well rounded 3rd line center.

Kerfoot will always be a great fit on a young team looking for scoring or an expansion team of hired guns though.

 

[Pokecheque]

You forgot insipid on the wing.

Not true.

 

[Foppa2118]

Not true.

From my viewings it is. Kerfoot is noticeable less effective on the wing where he has less space to work with, ends up in more battles down low, and plays a more north south game in transition. He can't use his creativity and vision as much, and those are his biggest strengths.

 

[flyfysher]

From my viewings it is. Kerfoot is noticeable less effective on the wing where he has less space to work with, ends up in more battles down low, and plays a more north south game in transition. He can't use his creativity and vision as much, and those are his biggest strengths.

From my viewings that is also absolutely true .

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Unless there's an internal cap set by ownership, it doesn't even make sense to move Soda for additional cap room. We already had tons of room for bad contracts and Soda's contract was only one more year.

Cap space can't be the reason for this trade.

It could be if the plan is to both sign a bigger fish UFA like Zuccs, AND weaponize cap space for a bigger fish forward like Stastny or Kadri.



In said example above if we add 6.5M in salary from Zuccarello, 6.5M in salary from Stastny, AND 5.25M in salary with Clarkson...

That's 18.25M being added. 10M for Rantanen, and then another 10M for JTC/Kerf/Zads combined.... All of a sudden that 39.5M in space we have right now is all gone and we're right up against the cap just as the roster fills out looking like:



Landy - Mack - Rants
Zuccs - Stastny - Kerfoot
Nieto - JTC - Calvert

With Jost Centering the 4th line and some combination of Kamenev/Greer/O'Connor/Dries/Bowers/Bourque(After his 8 year, 950k deal) on the 4th line.



To me that is not a very solid forward group. A legit 2nd line(Minus Kerfoot but hopefully Jost plays himself into that role), and a bottom 6 that has some good combination of skill and two-way play as well.


I'm not 100% certain how the LTIR works so correct me if I'm wrong here someone... but I believe Clarkson would count against the cap this summer essentially meaning we would only get to spend to ~76M this summer... but then when he goes to the LTIR in October that space essentially opens up again for us... Meaning we could be big players during the season to add a big deadline rental like Hall or Kreider for Cup push as well.

 

[flyfysher]

You'd never know that the way some people talk about him on here...

The Avs could do a lot worse than Kerfoot. They could also far, far better than him too. I think most people have acknowledged Kerfoot's value including his strengths as well as deficiencies which they have expressly discussed. Without going back, that's like twice where I read your posts and it seemed you were summarily dismissive of the explanations others gave for seeking to trade Barrie or Kerfoot. The Barrie part I get although I think it unnecessary. You're fed up with Patagonia (whose tenacity and thick-skin I admire greatly). When you disagree with other's positions on those players then you summarily dismissed the points that others made. This strikes me as more of an unwillingness to even consider it (as in your attitude is like, 'I'm done'). Frankly, usually you're one of the more thoughtful posters so I don't get the close-mindedness. What's up?

At one point, people were talking re-upping Kerfoot for $4.5M AAV. Don't recall if it was you. But by the same token, they'd have a cow paying Zadorov that much. I get it but I'd far and away much rather have Zadorov on the team than Kerfoot in terms of what they bring to the team for that kind of money.