GDT: COL @ ARI: Links By Day; Pucks By Night (9ET / 7MT)

[henchman21]

I don't know how you expect him to be a clear top pairing defenseman right now. Injuries completely stunted his development. You actually need to play games, to gain experience. He has not been able to do that. With his current cap hit I'm more than willing to wait on him. It's not like we're going to find another top four defense then for $3 million.

He’s at the age where he should be there and he’s played enough games. This isn’t the mid 90s where guys need 200 games, many guys can step in early and play at a high level.

He’s cheap on a bridge, sure. Thats not the debate here though.

 

[Ararana]

I don't know how you expect him to be a clear top pairing defenseman right now. Injuries completely stunted his development. You actually need to play games, to gain experience. He has not been able to do that. With his current cap hit I'm more than willing to wait on him. It's not like we're going to find another top four defense then for $3 million.

Even if Bo was never injured and developed linearly like you'd prefer to see of a top 5 pick, is Bednar really going to break up Team Canada's top pairing? I seriously doubt it.

Byram is going to be completely fine, even on the Avs. Colorado will limit his ceiling to a 2B-3A type defenseman if they keep this up, but even then Byram will still be a very good NHLer. I get disappointment from that with a top 5 pick, but Avs management owns some responsibility there IMO.

People are just digging their heels into their own narratives. There's zero coincidence that every time Byram makes a mistake the flock of boo birds show up.

 

[LOFIN]

The fact is that Byram will never be a top pairing defensman with us. That's just a simple fact. Makar and Toews are ahead of him, end of story.

His recent struggles are a bit worrying, and you might have to consider selling high on him now while people still might see him as a future #1D (which I still believe he can be, just not with us). So if a suitable option for acquiring a #2C in exchange for Byram exists, we should definitely pursue it. But I feel this is an offseason matter, not topical right now. I'd rather hope he cleans up his game and is an important piece for us in the playoff run, just like he was with our cup run.

 

[niwotsblessing]

How are people arguing that call? He is on a breakaway and Byram slashes the middle of his stick to ensure he can't get a shot off. A slashing penalty isn't limited to just hands and body.

It was the correct call.

{61.1 Slashing - Slashing is the act of a player swinging his stick at an
opponent, whether contact is made or not. Non-aggressive stick contact to the pant or front of the shin pads, should not be penalized as slashing. Any forceful or powerful chop with the stick on an opponent’s body, the opponent’s stick, or on or near the opponent’s hands that, in the judgment of the Referee, is not an attempt to play the puck, shall be penalized as slashing.}

Sorry my friend- there was no "forceful or powerful chop" in what Byram did.

 

[henchman21]

Even if Bo was never injured and developed linearly like you'd prefer to see of a top 5 pick, is Bednar really going to break up Team Canada's top pairing? I seriously doubt it.

Byram is going to be completely fine, even on the Avs. Colorado will limit his ceiling to a 2B-3A type defenseman if they keep this up, but even then Byram will still be a very good NHLer. I get disappointment from that with a top 5 pick, but Avs management owns some responsibility there IMO.

People are just digging their heels into their own narratives. There's zero coincidence that every time Byram makes a mistake the flock of boo birds show up.

If a player is good enough, they will develop regardless of circumstances. We've seen many top pairing and #1D develop right alongside each other. The Avs situation isn't limiting Byram. The Avs actually left the window open for Byram to surpass Toews, and when Byram didn't, they had to re-sign Toews.

I don't buy the narratives stuff... people have opinions and state them, but if any player has gotten the benefit of doubt for poor play, it is Byram. He gets every excuse in the book and people use it. The only recent player that comes close is Jost and I don't even think he got this leeway. Byram will get better and this current level of play won't last forever. But we shouldn't act like Byram has a group of haters after him, in fact most of the hate is from people who were very high on him this summer and last season (when he was also struggling). It has just reached a tipping point.

 

[the_fan]

We should maybe just stop crucifying players after every loss. It’s either Georgiev or Byram main victims every time this team loses a game. Does Byram has room to improve? Yes he does, but some of the Avs top players haven’t been very good for a little bit now.

MacK and Mikko haven’t been themselves either even though MacK scored a big goal in this one. The Avs still winning games, picked up a point in this one at least but they haven’t really been clicking on all cylinders yet this season and that will come. Byram will improve, MacK and Mikko will get going etc…

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don't know how you expect him to be a clear top pairing defenseman right now. Injuries completely stunted his development. You actually need to play games, to gain experience. He has not been able to do that. With his current cap hit I'm more than willing to wait on him. It's not like we're going to find another top four defense then for $3 million.

Sanderson has played less games than Byram and is basically the clear cut 1D in ottawa. Seider in his first season played at a top pairing level. Had a slump last year and is now the 1D on a playoff team. Mcavoy was top pairing/1D levels in 115 games or less. Fox was a 1D in less games.

Obviously he‘ll never be the 1 here, but getting to roughly a Toews level isn’t that crazy of an expectation. Plenty of guys have hit 1D/top pairing level in the same or less games that Byram has played. He’s shown that level and as a 4OA pick his expectations should be as such.

 

[Ararana]

We should maybe just stop crucifying players after every loss. It’s either Georgiev or Byram main victims every time this team loses a game. Does Byram has room to improve? Yes he does, but some of the Avs top players haven’t been very good for a little bit now.

MacK and Mikko haven’t been themselves either even though MacK scored a big goal in this one. The Avs still winning games, picked up a point in this one at least but they haven’t really been clicking on all cylinders yet this season and that will come. Byram will improve, MacK and Mikko will get going etc…

Dat avatar

 

[NateTheGreat]

Byram had a real solid game last night but most people who already have their minds made up on him will just point to how the game ended and say he was terrible.

Byram is currently a good top 4 LD on a strong Avs blueline. He certainly isn’t a bust and there have been much much worse top 5 picks made in the last decade.

 

[Ararana]

He’s at the age where he should be there and he’s played enough games.

So let me get this straight. In your opinion,

Regular season games
20-21: 19 games
21-22: 30 games
22-23: 42 games

Should have no effect on delaying Byram's development?

 

[the_fan]

Byram had a real solid game last night but most people who already have their minds made up on him will just point to how the game ended and say he was terrible.

Byram is currently a good top 4 LD on a strong Avs blueline. He certainly isn’t a bust and there have been much much worse top 5 picks made in the last decade.

This is why Avs also should have traded Makar after his mistake cost the Avs the game in Nashville. They didn’t even pick up a point in that one.

 

[henchman21]

So let me get this straight. In your opinion,

Regular season games
20-21: 19 games
21-22: 30 games
22-23: 42 games

Should have no effect on delaying Byram's development?

Not really... plenty of players have had injuries early in their careers. At 22 and 140 total NHL games played, he should have plenty of games under his belt.

 

[NateTheGreat]

I guess the Jets should’ve moved on from Josh Morrissey after his age 22-23 season because he wasn’t a clear cut top pairing defenseman yet.

 

[henchman21]

I guess the Jets should’ve moved on from Josh Morrissey after his age 22-23 season because he wasn’t a clear cut top pairing defenseman yet.

That's the season he took over the top pairing role... on a team that was also deep on defense.

More or less, Byram is at the age and experience where he should be come close to his peak. He is in a prime season. Since being drafted, Byram is over 200 total games played. That doesn't sound like a lot, but Seider is somewhere around 250 in the same draft year. Byram has had injuries, but he's also played enough. He's also played a lot of playoff hockey. The expectations should be high on him. He was a top 5 pick who people have tabbed at a future all around #1D. I have disagreed with that from the start, but this was a very widely held opinion. If he is that level of player it has to come soon. At his age and experience, he should really be a top pairing guy today or at worst a 3. He's played last season and this season like a flawed 4. He's not carrying a pairing, he's erratic, the defense is bad, and the offense isn't game changing. I think he will develop past this and will be a top pairing guy, but the kid gloves should be off. It is time for Byram to play to his capabilities. If it doesn't come this season, it becomes less and less likely he hits his ceiling.

 

[missionAvs]

We should maybe just stop crucifying players after every loss. It’s either Georgiev or Byram main victims every time this team loses a game. Does Byram has room to improve? Yes he does, but some of the Avs top players haven’t been very good for a little bit now.

MacK and Mikko haven’t been themselves either even though MacK scored a big goal in this one. The Avs still winning games, picked up a point in this one at least but they haven’t really been clicking on all cylinders yet this season and that will come. Byram will improve, MacK and Mikko will get going etc…

I'm open to crucifying our guys after wins let alone losses. I was talking to my wife the other day about how much I hate the Avs. Her response? "Why don't you cheer for another team then?". My response, "f*** no, I hate those losers even more."

 

[Ararana]

Not really... plenty of players have had injuries early in their careers. At 22 and 140 total NHL games played, he should have plenty of games under his belt.

Wow. Full respect here, I value you as a poster, but if you honestly believe that then... wow.

Byram has averaged 35 NHL games per season in the four years since being drafted. You really can't understand how that might delay development?

He has literally missed more games than he's played in the 3 seasons since becoming a full time NHL player. Mind blowing to me that you give him zero leeway for that.

I mean I understand people writing him off for being injury prone, but this is simply illogical.

 

[the_fan]

I'm open to crucifying our guys after wins let alone losses. I was talking to my wife the other day about how much I hate the Avs. Her response? "Why don't you cheer for another team then?". My response, "f*** no, I hate those losers even more."

Technically I hate the Avs every year they don’t win the cup, so I’ve only loved them 3 times

 

[henchman21]

Wow. Full respect here, I value you as a poster, but if you honestly believe that then... wow.

Byram has averaged 35 NHL games per season in the four years since being drafted. You really can't understand how that might delay development?

He has literally missed more games than he's played in the 3 seasons since becoming a full time NHL player. Mind blowing to me that you give him zero leeway for that.

I mean I understand people writing him off for being injury prone, this is simply illogical.

He's played 206 games since being drafted. Seider has played 258. They are in the same realm of games played, but in a vastly different realm of quality. Byram's NHL games are at 140 total. Seider is at 186. There is not an enormous difference there.

Many players have been injured early in their careers and then come back and played well. We also have a group of young defensemen who nearly missed a whole season to Covid and are playing well.

 

[NateTheGreat]

That's the season he took over the top pairing role... on a team that was also deep on defense.

More or less, Byram is at the age and experience where he should be come close to his peak. He is in a prime season. Since being drafted, Byram is over 200 total games played. That doesn't sound like a lot, but Seider is somewhere around 250 in the same draft year. Byram has had injuries, but he's also played enough. He's also played a lot of playoff hockey. The expectations should be high on him. He was a top 5 pick who people have tabbed at a future all around #1D. I have disagreed with that from the start, but this was a very widely held opinion. If he is that level of player it has to come soon. At his age and experience, he should really be a top pairing guy today or at worst a 3. He's played last season and this season like a flawed 4. He's not carrying a pairing, he's erratic, the defense is bad, and the offense isn't game changing. I think he will develop past this and will be a top pairing guy, but the kid gloves should be off. It is time for Byram to play to his capabilities. If it doesn't come this season, it becomes less and less likely he hits his ceiling.

Simply not true. Byfuglien was the #1D, followed by Trouba and Myers.

The point is that the Jets smartly didn’t move their young blue liner with massive potential just because he hadn’t reached his peak by age 22. I understand that in a perfect world Byram would be playing top pairing minutes with zero flaws in his game. However development is not linear and certainly not for a player who’s dealt with head injuries early in his career. Call it an excuse or whatever you’d like, but there’s no doubt that the injuries and lack of playing time have played a part in Byram’s early career path.

 

[henchman21]

Simply not true. Byfuglien was the #1D, followed by Trouba and Myers.

The point is that the Jets smartly didn’t move their young blue liner with massive potential just because he hadn’t reached his peak by age 22. I understand that in a perfect world Byram would be playing top pairing minutes with zero flaws in his game. However development is not linear and certainly not for a player who’s dealt with head injuries early in his career. Call it an excuse or whatever you’d like, but there’s no doubt that the injuries and lack of playing time have played a part in Byram’s early career path.

Simply true... the 22/23 season was the year Trouba was hurt in the 2nd half where Morrissey was on the top pairing. He just didn't get the PP minutes of Buff or Myers.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Simply true... the 22/23 season was the year Trouba was hurt in the 2nd half where Morrissey was on the top pairing. He just didn't get the PP minutes of Buff or Myers.

We have different definitions of “taking over the top pair role” if you count replacing an injured player ahead of you.

Regardless, Morrissey wasn’t at or near his peak in his age 22-23 season.

 

[LOFIN]

Simply not true. Byfuglien was the #1D, followed by Trouba and Myers.

The point is that the Jets smartly didn’t move their young blue liner with massive potential just because he hadn’t reached his peak by age 22. I understand that in a perfect world Byram would be playing top pairing minutes with zero flaws in his game. However development is not linear and certainly not for a player who’s dealt with head injuries early in his career. Call it an excuse or whatever you’d like, but there’s no doubt that the injuries and lack of playing time have played a part in Byram’s early career path.

We saw first hand Nuke break out at age of 25. So maybe we should be patient with Byram.

The fact is though, he will not reach his full potential with the Avs unless Makar bolts after his current deal.

 

[henchman21]

We have different definitions of “taking over the top pair role” if you count replacing an injured player ahead of you.

Regardless, Morrissey wasn’t at or near his peak in his age 22-23 season.

Took over top PK duties and solidified his play.

Peak no… but he was in his prime and playing at a very high level. This is the age where is really needs to come for Byram. He needs to finish the year playing at a high level.

I’m not saying Byram should be at his peak today. I’m saying Byram is at the age and experience where age and experience should not be an excuse. It is time for his game to round into form.

 

[wayninja]

Byram looks like shit

 

[NateTheGreat]

We saw first hand Nuke break out at age of 25. So maybe we should be patient with Byram.

The fact is though, he will not reach his full potential with the Avs unless Makar bolts after his current deal.

This I can agree with, there’s no defenseman alive that is getting #1D deployment with Makar on the team. You’d definitely expect at least a top pair guy considering where we selected him, but even if he’s just a top 4D that’s not a bust.

Took over top PK duties and solidified his play.

Peak no… but he was in his prime and playing at a very high level. This is the age where is really needs to come for Byram. He needs to finish the year playing at a high level.

I agree that the clock is ticking, but imo it’s nowhere near midnight.

I’d give him one more season than you would to really show us some consistency playing at a top pair level. If by the end of next season we’re in the same boat, then I’ll be lowering my expectations for him long term.

Edit: Yes I realize the longer you wait the more value you stand to lose on the asset. I just think the payoff can be a lot higher waiting for Byram to develop as opposed to whatever we can get in return. I’ll admit it is a fine line with the Avs expecting to contend at best for only a couple more years.