Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

[surixon]

As some have touched on I think one of this teams biggest issues is that players don't know how to properly support each other on the ice and open themselves up to provide easy options for the player with the puck.

Teams with good structure have complete buy in and players are acting instinctually on the ice and they play faster as a result. One of the reasons we play slow is that to me there isn't a lot of confidence in where players are going to be on the ice so instead of making the quick pass to an area where you know a player is going to be our players have to go through a progression to find an open man which in turn slows things down.

I find that there is far too much ad libing by our players on a game by game basis. I think there is a reason that Dubois has had some trouble fitting in so far, he went from an incredibly tight system to a system where our skilled forwards wing it on a game by game.

I'm all for creativity but there are so many areas of our game that would improve by just adding some more rigidity in our systems.

 

[WolfHouse]

As some have touched on I think one of this teams biggest issues is that players don't know how to properly support each other on the ice and open themselves up to provide easy options for the player with the puck.

Teams with good structure have complete buy in and players are acting instinctually on the ice and they play faster as a result. One of the reasons we play slow is that to me there isn't a lot of confidence in where players are going to be on the ice so instead of making the quick pass to an area where you know a player is going to be our players have to go through a progression to find an open man which in turn slows things down.

I find that there is far too much ad libing by our players on a game by game basis. I think there is a reason that Dubois has had some trouble fitting in so far, he went from an incredibly tight system to a system where our skilled forwards wing it on a game by game.

I'm all for creativity but there are so many areas of our game that would improve by just adding some more rigidity in our systems.

Exactly - we are still built for Buff, Trouba,Myers and replaced them with Forbort, Poolman, Benn

it’s hard to understand the disconnect - where it lies - Maurice’s systems are designed for high hockey IQ and lots of improv on the players part - yet he keeps adding plodding grinders

 

[surixon]

Exactly - we are still built for Buff, Trouba,Myers and replaced them with Forbort, Poolman, Benn

it’s hard to understand the disconnect - where it lies - Maurice’s systems are designed for high hockey IQ and lots of improv on the players part - yet he keeps adding plodding grinders

All he needs to do is allow improve red line and out towards the offensive end but install a lot more defensive structure with far more positional support when breaking out.

 

[WolfHouse]

All he needs to do is allow improve red line and out towards the offensive end but install a lot more defensive structure with far more positional support when breaking out.

How many coaches have you seen completely change their scheme/style? There are tweaks but what you're talking about is a legit change in coaching philosophy

 

[surixon]

How many coaches have you seen completely change their scheme/style? There are tweaks but what you're talking about is a legit change in coaching philosophy

The best coaches like Trotz are able to adapt to the players they have but I don't believe Moe is really capable of it.

 

[Whileee]

The best coaches like Trotz are able to adapt to the players they have but I don't believe Moe is really capable of it.

A reminder, Trotz had a grand total of 2 playoff series wins in the first 15 years of his NHL career. Then he was let go by the Preds. Since then, the Preds have sunk, and Trotz has become a lauded coach.

 

[WaveRaven]

Just a reminder we could have signed Trotz but we didn't sign the best coach available after Noel was relieved and signed Pomo because they had a traffic 10 -12 game stretch then played 500.

 

[None]

The impression I get from Maurice is that there's pressure to win now. It also feels like he's aware of the personnel deficits, particularly on the back end. But at the same time he also seemed to have his roster set from the start without much consideration for promotion from within. It's come across strangely antagonistic at times when Chevy has seemed insistent that there could be internal options. I sincerely doubt that Chevy meant Nathan Beaulieu as an internal option to be playing 20+ minutes a night beside Morrissey taking the toughest matchups in the division at times.
I wonder if the pressure is from his leaders on the team rather than from above though. There's always been patience preached from above, maybe Maurice is feeling pressure from within the roster?

Chevy's short term expectations are a little muddy though, I'm not entirely sure what he expects. Long term he's made it clear that his objective is to build a perennial playoff team. We know he's aware of the personnel deficits on the back end; he's said as much directly - that they've pursued higher end defensemen through trade. He's also said that there's internal options to fill holes and to me he's implied that they should be getting into games in the short term.
If his expectations were very high I'd have expected him to go out and get a guy like Ekholm regardless of cost, but combined with his long term goal I think he's safe in being patient. That along with the suggestion of internal options are what make me believe expectations aren't super high yet, but there seems to be some impatience from Maurice driven by something.

It feels like they've been pulling in different directions at times recently though and that's not a recipe for long term success if they're not aligned in their view. I think this is causing a lot of angst in the fanbase online.

 

[WolfHouse]

It just comes down to the fact that we had three D prospects that were NHL ready at the start of the season - without Beaulieus injury and likely with Benns signing, their playing time is limited to the extreme - one of these is the top 4D we need but it will be 2-3 years before we know at this pace

we are back at square one with beaulieu and poolman healthy at the start of next season... somethings got to give

 

[Joe Hallenback]

They are in a win now mode. Once the playoffs start its a different season. Get there without any major injuries and have your goalie play well and you can win

 

[Gabe Kupari]

They ain't a cap team in a covid year because they don't want to win. They want to win. 3 losses in a row.. longest losing streak of the year...

 

[DRW204]

Pitt is devastated by injuries almost every year. Revolving door of wing and d depth and even in net. Malkin and Sid are obviously great but getting older and not on 60 mins of the game (on top of being in and out of the line up, notably Malkin). Won 2 cups early in the tenure. Makes u wonder.

If Maurice kept this sustained success and had cups I'm all for him behind the bench as long as he has.

 

[Gm0ney]

Pitt is devastated by injuries almost every year. Revolving door of wing and d depth and even in net. Malkin and Sid are obviously great but getting older and not on 60 mins of the game (on top of being in and out of the line up, notably Malkin). Won 2 cups early in the tenure. Makes u wonder.

If Maurice kept this sustained success and had cups I'm all for him behind the bench as long as he has.

Yes, if people think the Jets D is bad, check who won the Cup with the Pens a few years ago. Letang was hurt, so it was Justin Schultz, Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Brian Dumoulin, Olli Maatta and 78 year-old Ron Hainsey.

 

[PaulPooley]

Just a reminder we could have signed Trotz but we didn't sign the best coach available after Noel was relieved and signed Pomo because they had a traffic 10 -12 game stretch then played 500.

Ok, now I’m sad.

 

[JetsUK]

Pitt is devastated by injuries almost every year. Revolving door of wing and d depth and even in net. Malkin and Sid are obviously great but getting older and not on 60 mins of the game (on top of being in and out of the line up, notably Malkin). Won 2 cups early in the tenure. Makes u wonder.

If Maurice kept this sustained success and had cups I'm all for him behind the bench as long as he has.

I agree. Even without multiple cups Sullivan is a top-end coach in the league.

And yet PoMo has outlasted him.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The company I work for. We have a very consistent methodology in keeping attrition low and developing employees to perform at a level that is at least baseline to allow for the business' success.

We do have a hammer option and we use it where necessary, but it is far from the first, second, or third thing we do. Today's workforce will just quit if you are too iron handed with them (either just stop trying, or actually quit). It costs the company less to spend more time and resources on coaching and developing than it does to have a turnstile of employees. It also leads to far more effective employees because a more tenured workforce is more knowledgeable and has more skill.

This is right in the wheelhouse of my job function for this incredibly successful company, I'd consider myself an expert on this subject.

You may be an expert, Maurice isnt. And that wasnt a hammer, Scheif missed a few shifts.

I also have personnel and mgmt responsibities and experience, and have received associated leadership awards from the people under my mgmt. At one time, I had a team of 400 people under me.

But you need almost no experience in these matters to know that if you reward and praise someone for an action for a long time, punishing them once for that same action brings no benefit. It more likely brings unforeseen issues. Neither your expert level expertise nor my leadership track record even matter here. This is kindergarten level stuff or not far off from that.

 

[surixon]

You may be an expert, Maurice isnt. And that wasnt a hammer, Scheif missed a few shifts.

I also have personnel and mgmt responsibities and experience, and have received associated leadership awards from the people under my mgmt. At one time, I had a team of 400 people under me.

But you need almost no experience in these matters to know that if you reward and praise someone for an action for a long time, punishing them once for that same action brings no benefit. It more likely brings unforeseen issues. Neither your expert level expertise nor my leadership track record even matter here. This is kindergarten level stuff or not far off from that.

Pretty much this, the coach has enabled the behavior to persist for so long that its now ingrained in some of our players. Most of these things could and should have been coached out of our players as they first started creeping in.

Maybe Maurice is trying and they aren't listening to him but I find that hard to believe based on the amount of praise he keeps helping on them.

 

[Whileee]

Pretty much this, the coach has enabled the behavior to persist for so long that its now ingrained in some of our players. Most of these things could and should have been coached out of our players as they first started creeping in.

Maybe Maurice is trying and they aren't listening to him but I find that hard to believe based on the amount of praise he keeps helping on them.

I think the Scheifele situation is overblown. It was a long shift and a lady change that led directly to a goal. Maurice blew a gasket. But Scheifele is not a low-effort player, and his defensive play this year has been improving as the year progresses. I just think Maurice was super pissed to see that lackadaisical play and reacted accordingly.

 

[mondo3]

Could it be that Maurices coaching strategies are too complicated for the players? Are there any former players reading this board (at any level above beer league) that have had an experience like that?

 

[WolfHouse]

I think the Scheifele situation is overblown. It was a long shift and a lady change that led directly to a goal. Maurice blew a gasket. But Scheifele is not a low-effort player, and his defensive play this year has been improving as the year progresses. I just think Maurice was super pissed to see that lackadaisical play and reacted accordingly.

Scheif has been making these line changes all year - he’s checked out... a mini benching won’t change that - he’s in full hockey suck mode and we’ve all played with those guys at some point..,

 

[Whileee]

Scheif has been making these line changes all year - he’s checked out... a mini benching won’t change that - he’s in full hockey suck mode and we’ve all played with those guys at some point..,

We disagree with each other on this.

 

[Duke749]

Scheif has been making these line changes all year - he’s checked out... a mini benching won’t change that - he’s in full hockey suck mode and we’ve all played with those guys at some point..,

No he hasn’t. Early in the year this wasn’t happening. But over the course of the season some of these habits have crept back in, especially in this condensed schedule.

 

[tbcwpg]

Just a reminder we could have signed Trotz but we didn't sign the best coach available after Noel was relieved and signed Pomo because they had a traffic 10 -12 game stretch then played 500.

Barry Trotz at the time he was fired, had 2 playoff series wins in 15 seasons coaching the Nashville Predators.

 

[WolfHouse]

No he hasn’t. Early in the year this wasn’t happening. But over the course of the season some of these habits have crept back in, especially in this condensed schedule.

When PLD got here, the line with him Connor and Ehlers were constantly behind the play because Scheif and Wheeler were coasting off the ice... can’t use a condensed schedule as an excuse when you wilfully stay out longer than everyone else

 

[ps241]

They are in a win now mode. Once the playoffs start its a different season. Get there without any major injuries and have your goalie play well and you can win

correct answer IMO.

No matter what we are playing out the string now and enduring our first slump. Paul will want to get the team playing right but after that there is not much to accomplish standings wise.

In the playoffs we will have a shot to beat the Oilers but they have owned us this season and are the favourites in my mind. Both teams are over due for winning a round.

I always like winning and dislike losing but don’t care that much about tonight. We are back to exhibition games again until the real hockey starts but I may tune in for one period. Been working allot on my sleep optimization lately so no late hockey games for me.