Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

[surixon]

Keefe just has a better system than Maurice and his players have bought in. Sure looks like Scheif and Wheeler have not.

Keefe is a darn good coach.

 

[bustamente]

Chevy's job will be easier if the Jets do poorly in the post season, change is good and Maurice has been here long enough but it shouldn't stop there as changes will have to be made with the Jets lineup

 

[WolfHouse]

Keefe is a darn good coach.

The Jets actually have a better team on paper imo

 

[surixon]

Chevy's job will be easier if the Jets do poorly in the post season, change is good and Maurice has been here long enough but it shouldn't stop there as changes will have to be made with the Jets lineup

We need a new coach with a fresh perspective and vision and we need a couple of top 4 dmen.

 

[ecolad]

Keefe just has a better system than Maurice and his players have bought in. Sure looks like Scheif and Wheeler have not.

The TML play a brand of hockey that will always give the Jets huge problems in their defensive zone. Keefe advocates an integrated 5-man unit attack, with the players all actively moving and rotating . So it`s not only the puck that goes low/hi but frequently the player as well! This type of movement is like kryptonite to our guys, trying to cover with man to man coverage. Our D often have trouble following hi, or when they do, necessarilyleave a smaller forward down low or in front of the net (where they have no training in tying up sticks/clearing sightlines/competing for rebounds).

What makes me laugh (cry) about all this is that Maurice /Huddy make such a great deal about pairing our D so that we always have one bigger guy to presumably keep the netfront clear!!! Talk about two coaching thoughts that are completely incompatible,one with another.

 

[surixon]

The TML play a brand of hockey that will always give the Jets huge problems in their defensive zone. Keefe advocates an integrated 5-man unit attack, with the players all actively moving and rotating . So it`s not only the puck that goes low/hi but frequently the player as well! This type of movement is like kryptonite to our guys, trying to cover with man to man coverage. Our D often have trouble following hi, or when they do, necessarilyleave a smaller forward down low or in front of the net (where they have no training in tying up sticks/clearing sightlines/competing for rebounds).

What makes me laugh (cry) about all this is that Maurice /Huddy make such a great deal about pairing our D so that we always have one bigger guy to presumably keep the netfront clear!!! Talk about two coaching thoughts that are completely incompatible,one with another.

Well said. I absolutely love how the Leafs play in the offensive zone and for me it is the template that we should be using for our offensive schemes. We have the talent and shooters to pull it off but here we are still playing an absolutely basic brand of offense. I have an incredibly hard time trying to figure out what CSW trys to accomplish in the offensive end. Soft chip in and if they get the puck in they cycle low and hope to open up a net shooter or a long range point shot.... It is pretty sad that this is what our coach has our talent attempting. Its so easy to defend against as well if you are organized.

I also like how in their end once the Leafs get the stop, forward one is down low infront of the net for a quick breakout option and they are able to get it out incredibly smoothly in most cases. Exhibit B of what our team should be trying more of instead of forcing everything up the walls to a winger who is covered.

 

[LowLefty]

The TML play a brand of hockey that will always give the Jets huge problems in their defensive zone. Keefe advocates an integrated 5-man unit attack, with the players all actively moving and rotating . So it`s not only the puck that goes low/hi but frequently the player as well! This type of movement is like kryptonite to our guys, trying to cover with man to man coverage. Our D often have trouble following hi, or when they do, necessarilyleave a smaller forward down low or in front of the net (where they have no training in tying up sticks/clearing sightlines/competing for rebounds).

What makes me laugh (cry) about all this is that Maurice /Huddy make such a great deal about pairing our D so that we always have one bigger guy to presumably keep the netfront clear!!! Talk about two coaching thoughts that are completely incompatible,one with another.

If our team played an aggressive game - hard on the puck and picking up their man, the Leafs system is no more effective than any other.
We stand around in the dzone as if we are on the PK and let the other team toss it around.
There's nothing wrong with man to man coverage if you are actually on your man - we simply shadow the man and wait for a turnover or for Helle to pick up the puck. We are not even engaging in puck battles let alone winning them.

If you play lazy hockey, any system will beat you and no system will save you.

 

[surixon]

I have watched a number of Moose games and it doesn't appear as though they play as much man to man as the Jets which is a bit curious since they play the same systems. There seems to be more focus on zone aspect of the hybrid. I have been impressed by how little time the Moose are now spending in their end and how smoothly they are getting the puck out. The Moose also seem to incorporate a bit more in the way of switching in the ozone especially when Perfetti is on the ice as he often likes to move low to high to pull players out of position.

So I am curious if our players on the Jets are not playing the system correctly or if Maurice is running a bit more of an extreme variant of the orgs systems then Vincent.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Vincent Lowry and Dubois with Flats and another D coach like Phil Housley or Dave Manson wouldn't be the worst. I actually think Vincent will be our next coach and I'm cool with that.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

If Maurice has lost 55 or and 26... Perhaps the best thing to do would be to get rid of 1 however if 1 isn't the problem and 2 is....

Do you even consider trading scheif or and Wheeler? Prob get a haul back... I'm just I dunno either Maurice has lost them or its complacency so maybe 55 sitting a game or 2 would wake him up.

 

[WolfHouse]

If Maurice has lost 55 or and 26... Perhaps the best thing to do would be to get rid of 1 however if 1 isn't the problem and 2 is....

Do you even consider trading scheif or and Wheeler? Prob get a haul back... I'm just I dunno either Maurice has lost them or its complacency so maybe 55 sitting a game or 2 would wake him up.

Sitting him for four minutes sure didn't seem to change his game in the third...

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Sitting him for four minutes sure didn't seem to change his game in the third...

4 minutes Isnt enough. You need to sit him for 4 games and if that's not enough you sit him again and again... Until he gets it and if he doesn't...

I'll take a 1 RHD in return and likely 1st plus.. in return.

 

[WolfHouse]

4 minutes Isnt enough. You need to sit him for 4 games and if that's not enough you sit him again and again... Until he gets it and if he doesn't...

I'll take a 1 RHD in return and likely 1st plus.. in return.

I'd bet that Scheif still ended up with more icetime than PLD and Ehlers... we are trapped with CSW as they are, they will all fall on their swords tomorrow and play exactly the same next game.

 

[dingbathero]

Maurice may have cost my fantasy playoffs with that benching.

sure, he may not have been playing great but to bench one of your best players at this point. It’s mental. You have a chat with them. You “coach” them through it. Grrrrrrrr.

Feels bad man.

/rant

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Well said. I absolutely love how the Leafs play in the offensive zone and for me it is the template that we should be using for our offensive schemes. We have the talent and shooters to pull it off but here we are still playing an absolutely basic brand of offense. I have an incredibly hard time trying to figure out what CSW trys to accomplish in the offensive end. Soft chip in and if they get the puck in they cycle low and hope to open up a net shooter or a long range point shot.... It is pretty sad that this is what our coach has our talent attempting. Its so easy to defend against as well if you are organized.

I also like how in their end once the Leafs get the stop, forward one is down low infront of the net for a quick breakout option and they are able to get it out incredibly smoothly in most cases. Exhibit B of what our team should be trying more of instead of forcing everything up the walls to a winger who is covered.

Spot on analysis.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Maurice may have cost my fantasy playoffs with that benching.

sure, he may not have been playing great but to bench one of your best players at this point. It’s mental. You have a chat with them. You “coach” them through it. Grrrrrrrr.

Feels bad man.

/rant

The problem with that benching is that Scheif has been playing like that for ages. And Maurice has praised him during that time. In that sense the benching almost appears staged. Wouldnt be surprised if Maurice asked for permission from Mark, with Blake in the loop. 'Hey guys, if things arent going our way tonight I may want to fake bench you Mark to try to get the team going. You ok with that? Could you play along, please?'

How else do you explain Maurice handing out gold stars to 55 all this time, and then hitting him with a big red Fail for the same thing?!

Yes, I'm serious.

Sort of.

 

[GaryPoppins]

The Jets actually have a better team on paper imo

The Jets as they’re playing are not even close to the sum of their parts. can we say this is surprising though?

I honestly wish sometimes Hellebuyck didn’t have the season he did last year so Maurice’s warts could have been fully exposed. 37 is absolutely the single reason he’s still employed at this point. To quote Maurice himself: “Show me good goaltending and I’ll show you a good coach”

 

[Jet]

Ok. Officially done with Maurice after tonight’s game.

Are you gonna tell him or do you want me to?

 

[Jet]

The problem with that benching is that Scheif has been playing like that for ages. And Maurice has praised him during that time. In that sense the benching almost appears staged. Wouldnt be surprised if Maurice asked for permission from Mark, with Blake in the loop. 'Hey guys, if things arent going our way tonight I may want to fake bench you Mark to try to get the team going. You ok with that? Could you play along, please?'

How else do you explain Maurice handing out gold stars to 55 all this time, and then hitting him with a big red Fail for the same thing?!

Yes, I'm serious.

Sort of.

I'd say that Maurice understands that the hammer should be the last resort and that players in this day and age respond much better to positive reinforcement and coaching.

It's exactly the methodology progressive companies use with their employees.

For all the talk about Maurice being a dinosaur I actually see a guy who tries to stay up to date and forward thinking.

Maybe he coddles his players a bit too much, but you see examples of what happens when he doesn't. Primadonna players like Trouba and Laine want out because they don't get what they want and they're asked to do things for the good of the team over their own personal benefit. You can find examples of that all over the league because players have more leverage than ever.

Maurice can be criticized for playing vets too long and valuing experience over skill. You can even criticize him for using systems that aren't working or don't suit the teams' skillset (though that's more on the ac's imo).

I don't think complaints about Maurice's player relations are earned, though. He's definitely a players coach and those are the ones that enjoy real success in today's pro sports

 

[Jack7222]

I'd say that Maurice understands that the hammer should be the last resort and that players in this day and age respond much better to positive reinforcement and coaching.

It's exactly the methodology progressive companies use with their employees.

For all the talk about Maurice being a dinosaur I actually see a guy who tries to stay up to date and forward thinking.

Maybe he coddles his players a bit too much, but you see examples of what happens when he doesn't. Primadonna players like Trouba and Laine want out because they don't get what they want and they're asked to do things for the good of the team over their own personal benefit. You can find examples of that all over the league because players have more leverage than ever.

Maurice can be criticized for playing vets too long and valuing experience over skill. You can even criticize him for using systems that aren't working or don't suit the teams' skillset (though that's more on the ac's imo).

I don't think complaints about Maurice's player relations are earned, though. He's definitely a players coach and those are the ones that enjoy real success in today's pro sports

Whatever it is Maurice understands, it's not working with Schiefele, whose game has gone downhill in the last 2.5 years.

Edit: I should add that I do agree on the whole with your post.

BUT: I really don't buy the dichotomy here between giving people the strap and respecting them as human beings. There are a host of other possibilities. It could be that Maurice is entirely afraid to call Schiefele to task - for anything - and has blown so much smoke up his arse that Schief sees nothing wrong with long shifts and has started to see himself as someone who is above playing defense. It could also be that Schiefele senses that whatever he does, there won't be real consequences, so he makes life easy for himself. He's 28; lots of young guys are like that, and not all of them (not many of them?) are entirely mature about their own disciplines and motivations.

In the end it's my guess that Maurice is pretty 'laissez faire' about his player relations; he seems to want to let them take care of it, and give them a lot of power and responsibility. I don't think this is always the best way to handle things. I think it can lead to problems.

Now this is speculation of course, but we don't really know the answer.

I do think though that there are people management mistakes other than being too tough and too easy.

Again I agree that I don't think Maurice is bad at player relations per se, but 8 years is also a long time to hold peoples' attention in pro sports. He's no Alex Ferguson (btw, read about some of his player management techniques... he was not so laissez faire about it.)

 

[jetswin]

The team is overly predictable and the amount of times we have played teams has them exploiting our weaknesses. It is time for a change. If they have to go internal it should be Lowry instead of Vincent. I was actually hoping for Woodcroft before he left. We need a coach who will allow creativity in the forwards and we are long past due in needing a D voice other than Huddy’s.

 

[Howard Chuck]

The Jets actually have a better team on paper imo

That’s what is frustrating. We have a ton of talent but we either don’t play a system to take advantage of it, or don’t press them hard enough to play with urgency or don’t play them where they deserve in the lineup or simply let them sit in the press box.

I honestly don’t know how Chevy is ok with any of these decisions.

What a waste of talent.

 

[Keystone]

Maybe Maurice knows his time is ending. Best to get canned and collect a cheque for a year until he smooth talks some other GM into his vision of mediocrity.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

All leads me to believe what I've thought all along this year....

Maurice has been given the rope... Seems like he's hanging himself with it. Very vet heavy lineup and the almost refusal to play the younger guys like Gus Ves Ville even Big Stan only got in cuz vet Beaulieu got hurt. Spending to the cap in a covid year... Chipper and Chevy obviously have some high expectations.

 

[surixon]

All leads me to believe what I've thought all along this year....

Maurice has been given the rope... Seems like he's hanging himself with it. Very vet heavy lineup and the almost refusal to play the younger guys like Gus Ves Ville even Big Stan only got in cuz vet Beaulieu got hurt. Spending to the cap in a covid year... Chipper and Chevy obviously have some high expectations.

Yeah he is coaching to win and we see many of his blind spots creep in as a result.